Christians preaching door to door

Originally posted by mrwupy
God created man, man created religion.

Believe what you want, just don't go out and kill those that believe differantly.

Amen to that!

The Pharisees were really religious but did not know God. Jesus told them what was what.

The Pharisees were so mad at Jesus, that even when they saw Him raise Lazarus from the dead they totally denied it.

Originally posted by question_reality
The papyri that you refer to....was bought in Kirtland by Joseph Smith. Sold to him by a traveling Mummy show. I have never heard of the Papyri being viewed by anyone other than Joseph Smith and the few others that assisted in their translation. To the best of my knowledge, anyone saying that they have since "found" the scrolls, and translated them using modern science is either lieing, or my information is incorrect. The linked site says that at the time of joseph Smiths translation there was no way of knowing what was actually on the scrolls, no known way of translation. ALL the sites I have found concerning the Rosetta Stone, say it was found in 1799, the church was founded on April 6th, 1830. The rosetta stone had been around for 31 years prior, so they did have a way to translate them then. the Rosetta Stone was found 6 Years before Joseph Smiths birth. So, lets look at a few things, to the best of my knowledge available, no one has since seen the scrolls outside of the Church since he bought them, so how have they since been debunked IF that is true? 2nd, your linked site says no way to translate, I think Ive proved that incorrect as well. (you and your being directed djohnsto77, but not necessarily saying that that is your belief entirely, you havent stated that as such plainly yet, just presented questions)

From www.religioustolerance.org...:

One of his wives, Emma Smith, sold the material to a man who later sold it to the Chicago Museum. It was believed to have been destroyed in the Great Chicago fire of 1871. However, in early 1966, Dr. Aziz S. Atiya, a professor of Arabic Studies from the University of Utah was visiting the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City. He stumbled across 11 papyrus fragments and a letter from Emma Smith certifying that they belonged to Joseph Smith. The papyri had been glued to a paper backing which included a map of the Kirtland, OH area. They were returned to the LDS church the following year.

The before giving the papyri to the LDS Church in Utah, the Metropolitan Museum did analyze them:

the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City: "Joseph Smith's interpretation of these cuts is a farrago of nonsense from beginning to end...five minutes study in an Egyptian gallery of any museum should be enough to convince any educated man of the clumsiness of the imposture."

"...difficult to deal seriously with Smith's impudent fraud."

"Smith has turned the Goddess into a king and Osiris into Abraham."

"...very clearly demonstrates that he (Joseph Smith) was totally unacquainted with the significance of these documents and absolutely ignorant of the simplest facts of Egyptian Writing and civilization."

"...the attempts to guess a meaning are too absurd to be noticed. It may be safely said that there is not one single word that is true in these explanations."

I don't mean to attack you or any Mormon, I'm sure most are good people who sincerely believe in their faith, but I do have a problem with them calling themselves Christian since even the points you agree to prove that their beliefs and doctrines are in conflict with the basic beliefs of Christianity.

Edit to Add:

I should add that the consensus view of these papyri (outside of the Mormon church) is that they are a pagan document called the Book of Breathings which is a shortened poor man's Book of the Dead, a guide for Egyptians on how to proceed into the afterlife buried with mummies. It was prepared for a man named Hor and dated to be from around the time of Christ. If it was written by Abraham, it would have had to have been created around 2000 B.C.

You can find hundreds of web pages about this, including those from Mormon apologetics defending them, through a Google search.

[edit on 1/11/2005 by djohnsto77]

I don't really mind anyone coming to the door, always give them a listen,
it's when they don't want to leave I get a little annoyed.
Anyhoo I have a cult control weapon as pictured below.

Henry Kane: "LET ME IN!!"

I have a book "Answers to My Mormon Friends." I read it and learned more about Joseph Smith.

My conclusion: false prophet.

Hello Question Reality. I was also raised mormon. Fortunatley, I have not been in over 12 years now. This has given me the opportunity to research heavily into the church history. Much knowlegde can be gleaned from reading the old church writings. For instance, the Journals of Discourse, Times and Seasons, The History of the Church, and the Original Book of Mormon (before the thousands of changes were made).

I now present some of the finding to enlighten you on the true nature of what is believed. I hope that this will open your eyes and allow you to search for these things yourself.

You said,

OK, talked to someone more knowledgeable than I on the mormon subject, likei said, i havent been active for a while. BUT.....

Kolob, is where (i was told) God relates his location as for now. Mormons believe that we are living in the place that heaven WILL be at the end of the world proper. Kolob is not necessarily where he "lives", but a relation to a physical humanly understandable place of residence. the earth will be cleansed by fire, and heaven and God will Reign on Earth. They/we believe that Earth used to be near Kolob, that the entire Earth is the garden of Eden, but that Adam-Ondi_Aman Is where Adam and his family resided before the fall of man. the Earth "fell" away From Kolob when the fall of man occured, it wasnt just a metaphor.


Okay, here goes.

Brigham Young, second prophet of the church:

Journal of Discourses, Vol.1, p.351, Brigham Young, July 10, 1853

"In regard to eternal things, they are all out of sight to them, and will so remain, unless the Lord lifts the curtain. The only reason why I cannot see the heavy range of mountains situated in the Middle States of the American Confederacy, is because of the natural elevations that raise themselves betwixt me and them, above the level of my eye, making them out of sight to me. Why cannot we behold all things in space? Because there is a curtain dropped, which makes them out of sight to us. Why cannot we behold the inhabitants in Kolob, or the inhabitants in any of those distant planets? For the same reason; because there is a curtain dropped that interrupts our vision. So it is, something intervenes between us and them, which we cannot penetrate. We are short sighted, and deprived of the knowledge which we might have. I might say this is right, without offering any explanation."

And a few verses from Abraham:

Abraham 3:1
1 AND I, Abraham, had the Urim and Thummim, which the Lord my God had given unto me, in Ur of the Chaldees;
Abraham 3:2
2 And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it;

Abraham 3:3
3 And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.

Abraham 3:4
4 And the Lord said unto me, by the Urim and Thummim, that Kolob was after the manner of the Lord, according to its times and seasons in the revolutions thereof; that one revolution was a day unto the Lord, after his manner of reckoning, it being one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. This is the reckoning of the Lord's time, according to the reckoning of Kolob. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Six 1843-44 p.313

Kolob the Great Kokaubeam
Abraham 3:16
16 If two things exist, and there be one above the other, there shall be greater things above them; therefore Kolob is the greatest of all the Kokaubeam that thou hast seen, because it is nearest unto me.


And as far as the garden of Eden goes, mormons belive the location is Jackson, Missouri.

Joseph Fielding Smith, the 10th LDS Prophet declared, "In accord with the revelations given to the Prophet Joseph Smith, we teach that the Garden of Eden was on the American continent located where the City Zion, or the New Jerusalem, will be built" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.74). Smith’s revelations are Mormon scripture in the Doctrine and Covenants, Sec. 107:53-56; Sec. 116 and 117:8.

Section 116 has only one verse and the introduction to it says, "Revelation to Joseph Smith the Prophet, near Wright’s Ferry, at the place called Spring Hill, Daviess County, Missouri, May 19, 1838." The verse itself says, "Spring Hill is named by the Lord Adam-ondi-Ahman.…" LDS Apostle, Bruce R. McConkie wrote, "Adam-ondi-Ahman means the place or land of God where Adam dwelt.... The early brethren of this dispensation taught that the Garden of Eden was located in what is known to us as the land of Zion, an area for which Jackson County, Missouri is the center place" (Mormon Doctrine, p. 20). Thus, Smith’s revelations and other early LDS writings teach that the Garden of Eden was located where Zion, or the New Jerusalem will be built which includes Daviess and Jackson County Missouri, which is a large part of northwestern Missouri.

Unfortunatley, I do not have time to talk about the Sensai papayra/Book of Breathings right now, but I will later.

I hope you have come to a better understanding of the mormon religion. Question Reality, I know it is hard to question reality, but remember, faith without works is dead. Feel free to join the mormon discussion here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 11-1-2005 by thirddensity]

Originally posted by I See You
I wasn't thrilled by their forcefullness...Maybe I should find out where they live and go to their homes and invite myself in to try to make them not believe in a god. Wonder how they would feel about that?

That reminds me...I used to invite Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses into my house and we'd sit there and argue (not emotionally, but factually). I was genuinely curious as to what they had to say and why. So there was me with my Bible and them with their 'additional literature' or what is referred to in marketing and electronic gaming as: 'expansion packs'. It was fun. They don't seem to like the "but my Bible says here..." rebuttal. I think I shook up the two Mormons who used to visit. I could expand on that a little bit if anyone is interested. The Jehovah Witnesses...well, I guess they got angry and never came back. I've had others in the rotation, people taking their place, come by but I said "I've already argued with the last group and they left." They give me an "oh, okay then. If you change your mind, here's my name and number".

I'll offer answers when asked, experiences when people want to hear, and help to those in need. Call me old school, but I prefer to be invited over to someone's house.

[edit on 11-1-2005 by saint4God]

Dont really have problems with them coming to my house. Its more of a problem at school, they hide out in front of buildings and try to talk to everybody who walks out to go to class. Its like they dont take no for an answer, they will even follow you and try to talk to you. I have offended many by using passages from my NIV bible

Don't know why I had to interject that....

thirddensity, it seems that what you posted generally backs what i have said, not directly and to the point, but, as i said, God resides there until his return to earth to live....so on and so forth, I didnt mean that he is just everywhere until he rematerialises on earth.....
I dont believe the mormons are right, but i Believer their religion is. i have read you other posts on the thread about mormon beliefs, and I agree with some and disagree with others. For me to express how I feel about religions, and Mormons in particular would take a long time, But if enough of you say you want to hear my opinion on religion, ill start the thread....let me know
OH Yeah, the person more knowledgable than I am that I get my info from, is my step father, a member of the Bishoprick before his job started transferring him everywhere, now hes moved on in his religious positions, and quite possibly has no current calling, but is still very knowledgeable about the religion he practices.

The start of this particular topic sounded more like a Rant than a Religious Conspiracy or Scandal. Someone may as well have started this kind of rant in the Political Forum where it would have said, "We should not be taxed because we don't like what the government is doing with our money."

To make this topic more appropritate one should start with the source where the preachers get the idea that they need to convert the masses and then show that they interpretted their Leaders' intensions wrong. For example does the New and the Old Testament of the Bible support conversion. Or why don't Jews preach to the peoples as the Christians do?

It is better that a preacher comes to your door and gives you emotional unrest and then that's the end of it, when compared to a government reaching into your pocket to cause a pain in your stomach due to a lack of food.

Reminds me of an event that happened when I was younger. A male & female jehovah's witness came door knocking. Mum said nope, not interested, guy tried to barge in, she started to close the door, he put his arm between the door and the door frame to try and force her to listen....so she slammed the door and broke his arm... servers him right. It's ok to preach your religion...but for crying out loud, don't invade other peoples privacy and don't try to force it down their throats .

At the other extreme a workmate is a hardcore jehovah's and he's the nicest bloke you could meet, goes out, drinks, perves on gals, then goes home to his wife & back to his weekly door knocking