So, this is how a Milennial sees a solution to the "Living Wage" issue....

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Discotech

I don't think you'll ever convince me that having the government take more from me will benefit me.

It is not altruistic to have the government take more of my income and give it to people who did not earn it.

You deserve this....

a reply to: nullafides

I just find it incredible the people who are trying to convince the population that having less is better.

There is no talk of earned income. I is all about living wages. Simply having a heartbeat does not entitle you to my money!

It's all about communism, totalitarianism. Because no free society can call themselves free while forcing those who are successful to be penalized for being successful and rewarding those who aren't successful.

a reply to: DBCowboy

You know, like I said right off the bat....

Nobody can take responsibility for yourself, but you.

Got that nifty bachelors in fashion design for My Little Pony dolls? Are you TRULY surprised nobody is knocking down your door to hire you?

Ambition, drive, self esteem, confidence, and goals.

II Still think we could tax the soon to be space mining ventures as a cost of doing business to pay out basic income and slowly bringing 3rd world countries up to speed the right way in terms of technology and resource development.

That would take care of a large amount of issues and buy time for the development of ever more advanced solutions for our problems.

Hell we could even stop the politicians from kicking nasa in the nuts and taking their lunch money.

a reply to: DBCowboy

There's no reason whatsoever for people who are so called 'successful' to be penalized in an efficient society... Fact is though, there's enough wealth for everyone.

Doesn't matter if you flip burgers for McDonald's, or work as an engineer for boeing... If your prepared to wake up every morning and go do your 8 hours, then you should be entitled to a fairly comfortable lifestyle.

How could anyone with any kind of basic sense of reason ever argue against that?

originally posted by: nullafides

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: nullafides

So.....if I have this right, they want the government to pay everyone??? Put us all on what amounts to welfare???

This, if nothing else, shows how badly the public school system has failed.

Yepp, you've got it right. That's precisely what the snowflakes want.

I think the snowflakes need to encounter some hot weather. Maybe then they can learn to act like people, instead of spoiled brats.

a reply to: DBCowboy
If anything the idea if put to use would drive more people to innovate and invest in current and new businesses which would benefit everyone short and long term.

Give people a reasonable amount of security and if they want more than the basic than they need to get off their ass as you allude to which is what most people will do.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

A burger flipper is not on the same level as an engineer.

To equate the two as equal sounds like the old communist mantra to me.

If you want to flip burgers, expect a salary commensurate with that skill level.

originally posted by: stabstab
a reply to: DBCowboy
If anything the idea if put to use would drive more people to innovate and invest in current and new businesses which would benefit everyone short and long term.

Give people a reasonable amount of security and if they want more than the basic than they need to get off their ass as you allude to which is what most people will do.

I disagree. Look at the old soviet union. Everyone was equal there, and all it bred was stagnation. It killed any competitive edge. It stifled drive, ambition, innovation.

Lets face it, hunger is a great motivator. If everyone has their bellies full, there's no motivation to innovate.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Subaeruginosa
If you want to flip burgers, expect a salary commensurate with that skill level.

Fair enough... So we can establish that an engineer should obviously be able to afford a bigger screen TV, which is of better quality, than a burger flipper.

But do you seriously deny that anyone who does there 8 hours a day, should be entitled to a reasonably comfortable lifestyle?

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa


But do you seriously deny that anyone who does there 8 hours a day, shouldn't be entitled to a reasonably comfortable lifestyle?

Yes. If you want to work in an area that pays low, don't expect a high salary. To expect/demand a high salary for a low salary position is unrealistic. And unsustainable.

a reply to: DBCowboy

This point as an example is moot since people of todays world have access to knowledge, technology, and materials the Soviets could have only dreamed of and thats why the stagnation you speak of won't happen.

a reply to: DBCowboy

No ones demanding a "high salary" for low skilled work, as far as I can see. Just a fair days pay for a hard days work... Its not to much to ask for in a first world developed economy, as far as I'm concerned.

originally posted by: stabstab
a reply to: DBCowboy

This point as an example is moot since people of todays world have access to knowledge, technology, and materials the Soviets could have only dreamed of and thats why the stagnation you speak of won't happen.

Lets take a look at America.

In America, there are pockets of our society (mostly inner city) where there have been generations of people who have had government pay for their food, subsidized their housing, and have regular checks in the form of welfare.

By your logic, these areas should be hotbeds of creativity, success, innovation, wealth, and the perfect business model for the rest of the world.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Funny, my boss (head burger flipper) at McDonalds had a degree in structural engineering, why was he ordering the burger flippers and occasionally flipping burgers himself instead of ordering brick layers ? Because there weren't any jobs when he finished uni and got stuck with doing what he knew while he worked through uni as a burger flipper

I find it incredibly funny that all you "capitalists" equate success in life to amount of wealth, the ironic thing is no matter how much wealth you generate you can't take a damn penny with you when you leave this planet

The Soviet Union was corrupt and it was far from everyone being equal, those in power and their friends worked like capitalists in secrecy hoarding large amounts of wealth while keeping everyone else poverished, on paper communism works, in practice it only works if those enforcing it are honest and legit and let's be honest, politicians that are honest and moral, do not exist in this current world.

You say it stifles drive, ambition and innovation ?

What would the world be like if creative people were able to be creative without having their creativity sucked out of them doing dead end jobs. I know plenty of musicians who gave up their music because they couldn't afford to sustain their creativity, same with artists and when they had their jobs they had little time or energy to create. I knew some inventors as well, they too lacked the time to invent. It's a fact that the majority of jobs stifle creativity and thinking out of the box. The only drive and ambition you speak of is to make enough money to crawl out of the crap hole they're stuck in, that's not motivation unless you think being beaten with a stick is motivation.

What you fail to see is minimum income is just a small step to creating a utopia, the next steps would be eradication of bull# jobs, globally controlled water supply, electricty, gas, internet, from a central hub free for everyone, better education to put people into worthwhile jobs within the science and tech industry. We need less pen pushers in this world and more scientists and engineers, get rid of bankers and the whole finance industry, build a world that truly is free.

But no let's keep the status quo, where the majority of people are miserable, where misery grows resentment and envy, which in turn leads to hate and eventually destruction

Simply having a heartbeat does not entitle you to my money!

But it does entitle you to live a life of financial slavery right ? What a wonderful entitlement, where you're racking up debt before you're born, what a wonderful life to have where you either starve or work just to survive. Yes it's fine for you you're making money you're doing your own version of living but what about the billions of people on this planet who are not ? Do you really think if they all decided to stop being lazy (the majority are far from lazy) and went and got useful degrees there would be enough jobs for them all ?

The system is broken, globally and it needs to change

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: DBCowboy

No ones demanding a "high salary" for low skilled work, as far as I can see. Just a fair days pay for a hard days work... Its not to much to ask for in a first world developed economy, as far as I'm concerned.

A fair days pay? Who said life was fair? Who determines what a "fair wage" is? Any wage that is supplemented by theft of the successful isn't "fair".

originally posted by: Discotech
a reply to: DBCowboy

Funny, my boss (head burger flipper) at McDonalds had a degree in structural engineering, why was he ordering the burger flippers and occasionally flipping burgers himself instead of ordering brick layers ? Because there weren't any jobs when he finished uni and got stuck with doing what he knew while he worked through uni as a burger flipper

Not my problem.

I find it incredibly funny that all you "capitalists" equate success in life to amount of wealth, the ironic thing is no matter how much wealth you generate you can't take a damn penny with you when you leave this planet

True. Why don't you equate wealth differently. I really don't care.

The Soviet Union was corrupt and it was far from everyone being equal, those in power and their friends worked like capitalists in secrecy hoarding large amounts of wealth while keeping everyone else poverished, on paper communism works, in practice it only works if those enforcing it are honest and legit and let's be honest, politicians that are honest and moral, do not exist in this current world.

You've answered your own question then. Your plan for a base living wage wouldn't work because people/politicians are corrupt.

You say it stifles drive, ambition and innovation ?

Yes. I've even given examples.

What would the world be like if creative people were able to be creative without having their creativity sucked out of them doing dead end jobs. I know plenty of musicians who gave up their music because they couldn't afford to sustain their creativity, same with artists and when they had their jobs they had little time or energy to create. I knew some inventors as well, they too lacked the time to invent. It's a fact that the majority of jobs stifle creativity and thinking out of the box. The only drive and ambition you speak of is to make enough money to crawl out of the crap hole they're stuck in, that's not motivation unless you think being beaten with a stick is motivation.

Being in a position where you're not beaten with a stick is a good motivator.

What you fail to see is minimum income is just a small step to creating a utopia, the next steps would be eradication of bull# jobs, globally controlled water supply, electricty, gas, internet, from a central hub free for everyone, better education to put people into worthwhile jobs within the science and tech industry. We need less pen pushers in this world and more scientists and engineers, get rid of bankers and the whole finance industry, build a world that truly is free.

Your version of utopia is different from mine.

But no let's keep the status quo, where the majority of people are miserable, where misery grows resentment and envy, which in turn leads to hate and eventually destruction

I don't care if you're too lazy to work and the only way you can feel better is to steal.

But it does entitle you to live a life of financial slavery right ? What a wonderful entitlement, where you're racking up debt before you're born, what a wonderful life to have where you either starve or work just to survive. Yes it's fine for you you're making money you're doing your own version of living but what about the billions of people on this planet who are not ? Do you really think if they all decided to stop being lazy (the majority are far from lazy) and went and got useful degrees there would be enough jobs for them all ?

The system is broken, globally and it needs to change

The system is only broken to those who don't want to work.

originally posted by: Discotech
a reply to: DBCowboy

Funny, my boss (head burger flipper) at McDonalds had a degree in structural engineering, why was he ordering the burger flippers and occasionally flipping burgers himself instead of ordering brick layers ? Because there weren't any jobs when he finished uni and got stuck with doing what he knew while he worked through uni as a burger flipper

I find it incredibly funny that all you "capitalists" equate success in life to amount of wealth, the ironic thing is no matter how much wealth you generate you can't take a damn penny with you when you leave this planet

The Soviet Union was corrupt and it was far from everyone being equal, those in power and their friends worked like capitalists in secrecy hoarding large amounts of wealth while keeping everyone else poverished, on paper communism works, in practice it only works if those enforcing it are honest and legit and let's be honest, politicians that are honest and moral, do not exist in this current world.

You say it stifles drive, ambition and innovation ?

What would the world be like if creative people were able to be creative without having their creativity sucked out of them doing dead end jobs. I know plenty of musicians who gave up their music because they couldn't afford to sustain their creativity, same with artists and when they had their jobs they had little time or energy to create. I knew some inventors as well, they too lacked the time to invent. It's a fact that the majority of jobs stifle creativity and thinking out of the box. The only drive and ambition you speak of is to make enough money to crawl out of the crap hole they're stuck in, that's not motivation unless you think being beaten with a stick is motivation.

What you fail to see is minimum income is just a small step to creating a utopia, the next steps would be eradication of bull# jobs, globally controlled water supply, electricty, gas, internet, from a central hub free for everyone, better education to put people into worthwhile jobs within the science and tech industry. We need less pen pushers in this world and more scientists and engineers, get rid of bankers and the whole finance industry, build a world that truly is free.

But no let's keep the status quo, where the majority of people are miserable, where misery grows resentment and envy, which in turn leads to hate and eventually destruction

Simply having a heartbeat does not entitle you to my money!

But it does entitle you to live a life of financial slavery right ? What a wonderful entitlement, where you're racking up debt before you're born, what a wonderful life to have where you either starve or work just to survive. Yes it's fine for you you're making money you're doing your own version of living but what about the billions of people on this planet who are not ? Do you really think if they all decided to stop being lazy (the majority are far from lazy) and went and got useful degrees there would be enough jobs for them all ?

The system is broken, globally and it needs to change

Just because someone thinks they are "creative" or would rather be a musician does not mean others have to pay for it. The rules of economics apply to creatives too. If they are so creative, then the market will pay them enough to earn a living doing their craft. If not, they will need to find something else to do to earn a living.

We don't live in some Utopia where everyone can sit around living well jerking off. You have to get out and earn a living.

a reply to: DBCowboy

By your logic, currently, all wages are supplemented by theft of the successful, where do you think the wages for politicians, teachers, military comes from ? Your taxes, people are living off your wage already

As you say life isn't fair, if a new tax came, I guess you'd be happy as you seem to be quite content with the unfairness of life

I find it ironic you are content at the unfairness of life, but are afraid of unfairness bestowed upon yourself by a miniscule portion of your wage going to others

a reply to: DBCowboy

So the people you speak of are an obvious minority in the overall population of the USA and we know that the areas they inhabit and the types of people who choose to live as criminals in those communities all in one way or another fall victim to the pitfalls of poverty that are well documented and tough to deal with for any community.

When you talk about regular "checks" for welfare that is baseless and not a valid claim for anyone who knows anything about the actual nature of welfare in the US.

Its really not worth sparring over the issue of guaranteed minimum income with you when you clearly have not put much if any thought into opinions you offer on what amounts to needed change in the way we humans conduct our societies that while benefiting everyone ultimately helps those who need it the most.