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So, this is how a Milennial sees a solution to the "Living Wage" issue....

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posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 06:19 PM
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originally posted by: SlapMonkey
I abhor the idea of Socialism because of my own values: What I've put into my own schooling and work and family life should dictate my success, not some pre-existing government program that gives me money from someone else's wallet.


Amen brother, AMEN....






posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 06:29 PM
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originally posted by: forkedtongue

Because there is X amount of success in the world.

Meaning it is not even possible for all those that are hard working and make the right decisions to succeed.





My close, personal friend Neil put it best...




There are those who think that life has nothing left to chance
A host of holy horrors to direct our aimless dance
A planet of play things
We dance on the strings
Of powers we cannot perceive
'The stars aren't aligned
Or the gods are malign...'
Blame is better to give than receive





The idea that there is a finite amount of success....is...not only preposterous...but, reprehensible.

Reprehensible in the concept that someone could allow themselves to have such a defeatist attitude.

WTF ever happened to making things for yourself? Making things happen for yourself?

Go talk to the naturalized citizen who came here with nothing and now owns a restaurant, or a small chain of 7/11's. Tell them how you feel that there is only so much success, and that someone took your fair share.

And try not to cry too hard when they laugh, or just turn away in disgust.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 06:36 PM
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As a lifelong resident of the NYC Metro area, I have to say with complete confidence that our system is broken.

I'm 35 and just about everyone that I know around my age simply cannot afford to own a home or condo.

Am I hanging out with the wrong crowd? No. Nearly all of my friends have at least a 4 year college degree, a job, a car, children, etc. None of them have substance abuse problems and none of them spend loads of money foolishly.

The sad truth is that the cost of living in downstate NY has grown so much quicker than people's salaries. And why? The usual villain. Corporate greed.

Why does the tiniest little piece of sh*t apt in my area cost an arm and leg in rent while that same money could easily pay a mortgage in another state?
Because of speculation value. In other words, "how much do you think we can get away with charging people?"

A trip to the supermarket costs exponentially more than in nearly every other state, even though the food isn't nearly as fresh. Why? Speculation value.

These are prices that are inflated with no justification behind them.

Therefore I welcome any and all government financial aid. We've already paid the astronomical taxes, it'd be nice to get some of that back.

And mind you, my thought process on this has nothing to do with laziness. I work a job using a trade that i went to school for and i continue my education every year. I work 5 days one week and 6 days the following week. I have jack sh*t to show for it.

I can only speak on what i know. And i garuntee if you ask anyone living in the NYC metro area about this they would agree. ( Unless you're talking to someone perched comfortably in Manhattan.)



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 06:51 PM
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originally posted by: theMediator
I think people here don't realize that in countries with basic income, EVERYONE gets payed the same basic income ON TOP of their salaries. Even people that make 300 000$ a year still get the same basic income.

It keeps people from living in the streets, it gives people a chance to study in what they want, it gives people to opportunity to take chances without loosing their homes, it gives people that don't value wealth above all a chance to better themselves, it lowers crime, it lowers health problems due to poverty, it keeps people out of despair...

Saying that a system like this makes people lazy is just an opinion reflecting YOUR values. Almost all of the poor people laziness comes from despair as they have given up on they OWN life, which is understandable. What I don't find acceptable is the laziness of rich people as they have given up on humanity to focus on their own little lives and then REFUSE to change to gives others the same opportunities.


Which countries are you referring to when when you say,


I think people here don't realize that in countries with basic income, EVERYONE gets payed the same basic income ON TOP of their salaries. Even people that make 300 000$ a year still get the same basic income.


Could you give us some links to countries that do such a thing? Pay people who make $300k/year? Then perhaps you can provide the tax rates on those folks? I think someone has been feeding you a few lines of fantasy.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 06:51 PM
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originally posted by: AgarthaSeed
As a lifelong resident of the NYC Metro area, I have to say with complete confidence that our system is broken.

The sad truth is that the cost of living in downstate NY has grown so much quicker than people's salaries. And why? The usual villain. Corporate greed.


It isn't corporate greed it is just NYC. I actually make a pretty good living and I might be able to buy a sh@t hole there if I'm lucky. People can be on a waiting list for a year just to get a crappy apartment, and pay out their butts (bribes) to get the chance to rent. And what do you have 4 or 5 types of taxes lol, no thanks. You got 8 million (most likely 10 million ) that live there and 2.5 million apartments with most getting pasted on from parents to kids, you need to move and get a better life.




A trip to the supermarket costs exponentially more than in nearly every other state, even though the food isn't nearly as fresh. Why? Speculation value.


Taxes, real estate, wages all drive prices up, so even food is outrageous.

My company would need to double my salary for me to go there...lol


edit on 30-12-2015 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 07:00 PM
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a reply to: nullafides

Awesome article. I suggested this concept a long time ago to my ex-communist but now hardcore-pro-capitalist uncle. He thought it was an interesting compromise to the failed systems we've tried in the past. The only people who could possibly object to this idea are greedy close-minded people void of compassion for their fellow man. Capitalist stooges and sheep who can't see past the suicidal corporate agenda. There's a fine line between ineffective welfare and effective wealth distribution, but the line is a desperate chasm for many good people.

Anyway, I strongly approve of this method. If the governments of the world put even a quarter of the tax money that they use for unnecessary population spying and foreign destabilization into this benevolent concept then the world would be a much better, happier place for everyone - the rich AND the poor.

But we can't have that now, can we? It might threaten everything that our shadow government overlords have spent centuries building. The last thing they want is universal freedom and basic financial liberation for their subjects. And many people here agree, which I find surprising but not shocking. Too many of us have been well conditioned to hate any idea that might objectively uplift humanity.



edit on 30/12/2015 by TheAnarchist because: ~



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 07:21 PM
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a reply to: nullafides

What's a good minimum wage...30k?
50K....
100k........
Why not have every working person make 500,000,000

There, no more money problems right socialists?

How are people this dumb. Crap isn't handed to you. And these kids these days get OT of college thinking they are worth more than people with10+ years of job experience just because....



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 07:43 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey


All of the problems that you discuss were created by the current generation of baby boomers (for the most part).


Yes, yes they were. Not all of them, some go even further back than that, but the current economic hellhole is, for the most part, either their fault, or the people they allowed to ruin it.


the same ones who were the most vocal in many of the same things that Millennials are now.


Good. I guess we'll just have to be louder. The Boomers didn't have the internet.


It's too bad that they can't recognize their own reflections in the cyclical mirror that is American society and policies.


Nice to see that you think climate change, economic inequality, sexuality-based discrimination, so on and so forth, are things no one should be worked up about.


You are entitled.


Actually, you are.


but your apparent generation (assuming that you're a Millennial)


Yes, I am a millennial. Go ahead, use it in some ad-hominen attack.


collectively thinks that you deserve everything on a silver platter


Really? Do we? I guess I missed the memo. Last I checked it was "deserve to not get screwed over because of short-sighted people doing short-sighted things before we were even born."
Oh, and there's probably a bit of "deserve to not be generalised as entitled when fighting for a reasonable hand."
The hypocrisy is mind blowing. I'm entitled? What about you!?


from an apparent free living wage


If you're talking about what's in the OP, it's one article. On one site. Written by one person.
Hardly representative of an entire generation. I have personally said that a free living wage (or as Cowboy likes to mockingly deride it as, an "entitlement" check) is something I do not want to see happen. However, as things are currently progressing, it. Is. Inevitable.


to $15/hr minimum wage


"Waah, waah, increasing the minimum wage will make things cost more, and my own relative value will be decreased."
See what I said about entitlement, earlier?


to socialized medicine


How is this a bad thing? Seriously. Don't tell me you're one of those people who buy into the whole "SOCIALISM!!!!" bogeyman.
Single-payer healthcare is both more effective and less expensive than the current system, which it would be replacing. You'd have to be a selfish fool to think it was terrible. Also a bit entitled, probab-Oh.


to free education


Once again, not a bad thing. I can't see how you can view it as such unless you dislike people being educated. College is the new high school. The difference between them is that when the previous generations went through education, they weren't saddled with crippling debt for thirty years. That's what we're trying to reclaim.


to government protection against getting your feelings hurt


Aaand here it comes, the self-righteous "Hard Work" speech. You've already devolved into weird passive aggressiveness.
Though, tell me, was the Civil Rights Movement all about "government protection against hurt feelings?"


personal responsibility and advocating a good work ethic and knowing that you must earn what you get in life in order to succeed is tantamount to 'blaming the victim.'


Good work ethic? Great thing to advocate. Always nice to have Thumbs up.
Here's the thing though, the deck is so stacked that "good work ethic" is almost valueless. You're blaming us for not having "good work ethic", but this is one of the hardest working generations we have an record. One of the most productive generations. You guys are getting screwed like this, too.
But where are the fruits of our labor going?
Up, up, up. All the way up to the top. What are we left with? Basically nothing.


Hell, discussing this with someone who sees themselves as a victim is pointless.


I agree, you really need to stop seeing yourself as a victim of this newfangled "surcialanizm" and of people trying to claim a better future.


Best regards. Good luck with the whole victimhood mentality.


Yep, good luck. Keep fighting against this positive change with all you've got, soldier. You might be able to delay it long enough that you die before it takes root. That way, you'll never have to admit you were wrong.

edit on 30/12/2015 by Eilasvaleleyn because: Reasons



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 07:46 PM
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a reply to: GraffikPleasure

A good minimum wage is a wage a single person can survive on, with peace of mind and basic necessities provided for. That. Is. The. Point.

The problem is that "these kids these days" have to go through college to even have a chance at getting a decent job. Things aren't like they were when you were young, old man, you can't drop out of high school and be trained on site. You can't buy a house working full-time at pizza hut anymore.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 07:48 PM
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I'm really burned out on people dumping all over my generation and lumping us all together.

I know hardcore libertarians and fascists, free market capitalists and communists, racists and SJW's.

Yes many people have many different ideas on how to fix some systematic issues in our nation. There is no concensus or group think that we all believe wealth should be redistributed.

If we're all going to be honest, taxpayers are already subsidizing low income workers with food stamps and other programs so I'm not sure if this would really be that big of a change to the status quo.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 08:09 PM
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a reply to: Orbstac

Suuuure, a "little more" won't hurt. I''ll just bend over again. When its all added up, I pay approx 40% in taxes now, what is another 10 % to you...huh? I can just tell my family we can't pay our utilities because Orbstac needs some of that money that we earned working 80hrs a week.

edit on 12/30/2015 by Krakatoa because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 08:28 PM
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a reply to: Krakatoa

And yet you don't tell your family you can't pay your bills because that CEO needed his five million dollar bonus?
I guess those platinum-plated toilets don't pay for themselves, after all.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 08:37 PM
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a reply to: AgarthaSeed

If it's impossible for you to live there. Why are you still there?

Move somewhere where you can live.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 08:41 PM
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originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: Krakatoa

And yet you don't tell your family you can't pay your bills because that CEO needed his five million dollar bonus?
I guess those platinum-plated toilets don't pay for themselves, after all.


There is a difference. The CEO doesn't write out my paycheck and then look at it and say, "Oh, I need a gold plated toilet, so I am taking back an extra 10% of what I paid you."

That's what taxes are. The government looking at what you worked for and saying, "We think we are entitled to an extra 10% of what you earned this time around."

Put another way, what right does the government have to more or less make it so that a man works for them until sometime into Wednesday and THEN the rest of the week he can work to actually support his family? At what point did the government become entitled to the product of the lion's share of a man's productive hours? And at what point do you feel entitled to ask people to chip in more of their productive time to give you basic support. If you have your family, why aren't THEY paying those bills for you?



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 09:15 PM
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originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: Krakatoa

And yet you don't tell your family you can't pay your bills because that CEO needed his five million dollar bonus?
I guess those platinum-plated toilets don't pay for themselves, after all.


And, how do you know WHAT the head of the company I work for has made in $$ and "things"? FOr all you know, I am self-employed, yet do not make that public information. If I am self-employed, then I AM THAT CEO....and I promise you, I don't have platinum toilets. I do, however, have one that doesn't flush properly, needs to be repeatedly plunged, and likely needs replacing. But wait, I can't afford a new one because I need to pay more taxes so someone else can live it up...

Sorry snowflake....that is not how life works. I suggest you sell that box of participation trophies you have on ebay to make some money. At least then they would be worth something.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 09:31 PM
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a reply to: nullafides

So.....if I have this right, they want the government to pay everyone??? Put us all on what amounts to welfare???

This, if nothing else, shows how badly the public school system has failed.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 09:35 PM
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a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

What are you even talking about. You do not have to go to college still to make a comfortable wage...instead of going to school you are getting work experience and Yea you start out at a lower wage.

I can say these kids are entitled because well...I was one..I'm 30. Went to college and couldn't get a job in my degree..found out in my areas of you didn't have e or more years experience in that field you couldn't get a job. I was a butcher for a few years, then I worked at a caterpillar assembly line for a year then got a break and found a job in my degree. Now I'm a senior graphic designer with people under me. None of that was given to me.

It takes hard work and determination. Not crying and whining on the internet and on campus. I am exactly what the people are except, I DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT AND WORKED HARD to get wher I'm at....but everybody works hard right? Everybody should get good pay right?...Life is not fair.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 09:38 PM
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a reply to: Krakatoa


And, how do you know WHAT the head of the company I work for has made in $$ and "things"? FOr all you know, I am self-employed, yet do not make that public information. If I am self-employed, then I AM THAT CEO....and I promise you, I don't have platinum toilets. I do, however, have one that doesn't flush properly, needs to be repeatedly plunged, and likely needs replacing. But wait, I can't afford a new one because I need to pay more taxes so someone else can live it up...


I wasn't referring to the CEO of your workplace in particular. It's also people like the Waltons, and Wall Street speculators. (You know, the ones who crashed the economy in 2008, but were bailed out by... You got it, taxes.)
You may misunderstand where I sit. I believe taxes are necessary, I believe taxes are used for good things. Roads, schools, firefighting. But I also believe that they have a marked tendency to be mishandled and wasted, not on medicare or help for poor, but on obscene military overspending and large corporate subsidies.

If by "live it up" you mean "barely survive while working three jobs"...

The fact of the matter is that most humans find more fulfillment in having a job than not. Most people want to work, and society's attitude (you're worthless if you don't have a job) is definitely a lot of incentive to do so.
Anyone saying "you're poor because you don't try" is just sad.

You are a very hard worker, yes? You seem like someone who has that attitude. You seem like a generally alright person, and I hope I am not mistaken.
Tell me, what has your hard work and dedication gotten you?
A toilet that doesn't flush properly, apparently.

The issue isn't taxes. People were fine back when the tax rate was far higher. The issue is this.
thecurrentmoment.files.wordpress.com...


Sorry snowflake....that is not how life works. I suggest you sell that box of participation trophies you have on ebay to make some money. At least then they would be worth something.


Actually, most of my "trophies" are for first and second place in chess tournaments, and awards for academic excellence, but I digress. Have you ever actually received a participation award? Do you know what they represent, to the people who obtain them? Because as someone who has very recently been through high school, I am not aware of a single person who liked getting them. They are badges of shame. Marks. Of. Failure. We referred to them in a mocking tone as "you tried" awards.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 09:49 PM
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a reply to: GraffikPleasure

The issues we face today tend to stem from attitude problems more so than real ones.

Here is a small example. It would actually save money to just give every homeless person a house.
Just give them. For free. (Or, basically free.)

If the people at the top didn't hoard such an obscene amount of wealth, things would for the most part be fine.
The top 0.1% is worth as much as the bottom 90%.
HOW is that acceptable!? What sort of insane hard work do you need to do to actually deserve that?

Here's another interesting thing: Earning 50K a year, after taxes and all expenditure (bills, rent, food), you would need to work for 1000 years to be on par with what Donald Trump inherited, at the lowest figure of what he inherited. Without inflation adjustment.
At the higher figures, it can go to 4000 years.
He sure worked hard for that, huh?



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 11:20 PM
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a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

Has it ever occurred to you that the people who have money have it because they know what they're doing? That they got wealthy in the main because they made smart choices and did the right things with the money they earned?

That most of the most wealthy people in this country worked their way up from nothing. Actual trust fund babies are the minority.

I see someone standing on a street corner with a sign saying "Mother of 2, Car stolen, Laid off, Please Help" and I have to wonder why she is standing on the corner. Who is watching her babies? How is she going to get a job standing on the corner? How is standing on the corner with that sign fixing her problems, even if everyone who drives by gives her money ... because I see her there day after day.

And it starts to make me think that maybe she's standing on that corner in part because she's not making smart choices. Has she had some bad luck? Probably, but just by standing on that corner when she could be out pounding the pavement looking for work, any work, even fast food, it makes me think she's also making some bad decisions about how to improve her lot in life.

Because the thing is ... I also drive by several businesses with help wanted signs in their windows within walking distance of her corner. They aren't jobs that would require a degree either. She could walk there. So ...



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