Netflix's Docuseries Making a Murderer

Would love some of the great minds on here to do an in depth, thorough thread and investigation into this.
It's so incredible the whole thing, that I feel it deserves to be investigated including all of the stuff left out of the documentary, on both sides.
The documentary was most definitely biased in favor of Avery but the filmmakers themselves said that it wasn't supposed to be a whodunit, but merely to highlight the judicial and legal failings and wrongdoings.
There was a lot left out including the stuff about Teresa going to Avery's place multiple times and being freaked out by Avery.
Avery also touching his nephew inappropriately and many other bits of info.

It would be a great and complex thread but I hope someone takes it on and does it justice - ATS Style.

Wow what a great series. Unless important information was left out of this series then I don't get how they can find him guilty without reasonable doubt. There just is not enough in my opinion and then all of the shady # behind the police force. So many theories that are being thrown out there now. Unfortunately this case will never be reexamined because everything was so messed up from the get go. I can't clearly state that Avery and Brenden are innocent but if I were a juror I don't think I could find them guilty.

This show was horrifying! I knew our judicial system was screwed up before watching this. But my god this is something straight out of a movie! I actually yelled at the TV a few times...

Watching highly trained interrogation officers coerce a false confession out of a mentally challenged 16 year old was heart wrenching. They knew exactly what they were doing. They manipulated that poor boy into saying exactly what they wanted to hear. They ruined his life without even a second thought.

Something never sat right with me in regards to the ex-boyfriend the roommate and the brother. The roommate didn't report her missing. The brother "guessed" her password and was rooting around in her voice messages deleting stuff. The ex couldn't remember the last time he saw her. But then said it was when he visited her roommate(His friend). So the roommate and ex boyfriend have a connection beyond her. Something was very fishy with those 3. There's an old saying that "90% of murders are committed by someone close to the victim".

While on the subject. Am I the only one that thought every statements the brother made to the media sound scripted? He never once showed any real emotions other than his constant hatred for the entire Avery family.

The most disturbing part is the very likely chance the real murderer is still out there....

originally posted by: HawkeyeNation
Wow what a great series. Unless important information was left out of this series.

Some stuff most definitely was.

Finished watching the series today. On the evidence presented in the documentary series, the only proof was SA's blood in the RAV4 which to me is questionable.

Several things niggle me.

1) If SA is guilty, why on earth did he not use his crusher on the car rather than a half-baked attempt to camouflage it with a few twigs and piece of board? Would you honestly go on vacation and leave all that blood smearing in the vehicle?

I have used an array of needles in my career and also these blood sample containers by BD Vacutainer. The usual needle sizes that pierce the bung are 18FG and 20FG (18 being the larger). In 30 years I have never seen either needle create a hole that size. This suggests to me that whoever drew blood from that sample tube was not trained.

2) In episode 9 where was Brendan's brother, Bobby, during the court proceedings. I know the hearing took 4 days but he was not at his mother's side when the jury's verdict was read. I got a hunch about him due to an abrupt change in body language while being cross-examined, in a previous episode.

I agree with posters who think the murder was advantageous to the corrupt PD agenda but were not actually responsible for the murder. I reckon Bobby and his stepfather did it and used SA to their advantage. I think Bobby coerced his brother into the original story and Brendan complied thinking he was protecting his brother. He repeated what he had been told to say by Bobby and further on realised he was also incriminating himself.

I think Brendan's sister crying in court was guilt due to her also being part of the story concocted by Bobby. I cannot remember if a reason was given as to why the detectives approached Brendan whilst at school.

originally posted by: JAY1980
While on the subject. Am I the only one that thought every statements the brother made to the media sound scripted? He never once showed any real emotions other than his constant hatred for the entire Avery family.

I thought the same. I couldn't put my finger on it, but he didn't have the mannerisms and appearance of a brother who'd lost his sister.

The police are saying that the documentary missed out crucial evidence that tied Avery to the murder and that the time line of events was skewed.

However, Anonymous have come out saying they have hacked into phone and email records that prove the police colluded to put him away.

And to be fair, when you have 2x teenagers on the stand both say they lied when they told the cops they saw XXX and made it up, no jury is going to give an innocent result on that - especially when those two lying are family.

I think there's cause for an investigation. S. Avery was locked up for.. 16yrs or something for a murder he didnt commit? the police and DA knew before that conviction he was likely innocent and had a suspect on hand. The fact S. Avery was suing them for 30x million is motive to frame him and lock him up I think.

Just on episode 2 and it already has me hooked, not going to read the whole thread or look up the case in case of spoilers. But holy # so far

originally posted by: sosobad
Just on episode 2 and it already has me hooked, not going to read the whole thread or look up the case in case of spoilers. But holy # so far

Yes, avoid reading the thread there are lots of spoilers, come back after watching is the best bet.

originally posted by: stargatetravels

originally posted by: HawkeyeNation
Wow what a great series. Unless important information was left out of this series.

Some stuff most definitely was.

People keep saying that, but I have yet to hear anything really substantial that was left out. People seem to like to say, "That's not the whole story" but fail to explain what this missing info actually is. I've heard a few things that were very weak and circumstantial. I'm all ears if someone has something beyond that.

Here's something I noticed:

In one of the earlier episodes they showed the video of the cops going through Avery's room. It showed the night stand near where the key was "found" on the floor, but it doesn't show the floor. You see the side of the stand but never the floor next to it. So let's say the Manitowoc cops planted it. They could have watched the video before planting it to make sure it's in a spot the video didn't pick up.

Just another fishy question to add to the pile.

-important to add: The keys were found well after the video was made and after several searches. And found by Manitowoc county who shouldn't have even been there in the first place because of the conflict of interest from the law suit with avery.-

a reply to: Reflection


There are quite a few things, some of the phone calls between Brendan and his mom.

Mother (M) Brendan (B)
M. Did he make you do this?
B. Ya.
M. Then why didn't you tell him that.
B. Tell him what
M. That Steven made you do it. You know he made you do a lot of things.
B. Ya, I told them that. I even told them about Steven touching me and that.
M. What do you mean touching you?
B. He would grab me somewhere where I was uncomfortable.
M. Brendan I am your mother.
B. Ya.
M. Why didn't you come to me? Why didn't you tell me? Was this all before this happened?
B. What do you mean?
M. All before this happened, did he touch you before all this stuff happened to you.
B. Ya.
M. Why didn't you come to me, because then he would have been gone then and this wouldn't have happened.
B. Ya ..
M. Yes, and you would still be here with me.
B. Yes, Well you know I did it.
M. Huh
B. You know he always touched us and that.
M. I didn't think there. He used to horse around with you guys.
B. Ya, but you remember he would always do stuff to Brian and that.
M. What do you mean.
B. Well he would like fake pumping him
M. Goofing around
B. Ya but, like that one time when he was going with what's her name... Jessicas sister.
M. Teresa?
B. Ya. That one day when she was over, Steven and Blaine and Brian and I was downstairs and Steven was touching her and that.


www.dropbox.com...(Dassey%20to%20Mother).pdf?dl=0
Page 4
Via Reddit.


There's a huge 'investigation' on reddit.

Also Teresa Halbach visited Avery's place several times previously and was even creeped out by him.

He asked for her specifically when he called Auto Trader.

He called her phone and disguised his number with *67 a few times that day.

Leg irons and handcuffs were found in Avery's residence and in Dassey's

Here are some other things left out that I would say are important for the viewer to know

mobile.onmilwaukee.com...


I'm merely playing devil's advocate.
I think both cases should have been thrown out as the were crappy and flimsy and corrupt.
Whether they're guilty or not is almost secondary, the cases did not prove either of their guilt beyond reasonable doubt.

a reply to: stargatetravels

Did you even watch the documentry? They played that conversation between Brendan and his mom. Except unlike the trial the documentry played the whole conversation along with the tape of the cops coaching him to tell his mom. Before he even hangs up with his mom he tells her that he didn't do it and was only telling her those things because the investigators told him to.

Brendan denied it over and over to the police before he was coerced enough to give a false confession.. He was a mentally challenged child. A very similar thing happened to Jessie Miskelley in the West Memphis Three case. They freak out these mentally challenged kids, saying how there's no way out. They already have all the evidence against them, but they will "help" them if they tell them the "truth." Which of course is not really the truth. It's what the investigator wants to hear. These idiots interrogating are never really searching for truth, they're trying to get a confession. Big difference.

This is not an anomaly. False confessions happen all the time, especially with lower cognitive functioning kids and adults.

And regarding her being uncomfortable with Avery:

Why would she even go there in the first place if she was so uncomfortable?

Hand cuffs:

Where was her DNA on the cuffs? Where were the cuff marks on the bed? Where was her blood?

a reply to: Reflection

I did and I obviously paid attention because there was no mention of Avery touching his nephew sexually in the documentary.
I already said the cases, both, should be thrown out.
What they did to Brendan was appalling and the judge should have slammed them for their treatment of him.

As I said I'm playing devil's advocate, I'm not here defending the prosecution.
This documentary was slanted, biased and only showed Avery's side and ommited some fairly important stuff.
I still absolutely loved it and have nothing but sympathy for both men and hope they're both given retrials or released.
The nephew was particularly badly treated, it was heartbreaking watching them manipulate him.

Happened the to Central Park 5 kids too, happens all the time.
The police are corrupt and don't often care of the right person is caught, just that someone is caught.
I'm not naive or clueless - by questioning and looking at ALL evidence in this case, including the stuff left out, I'm actually being less naive and gullible than you are, who is just believing the documentary is 100% gospel.

It's not.

Avery called and specifically asked for this woman.
She'd been to his property several times and was creeped by him.
This was the last place she was known to have been.
He had shackles like those described of her being shackled to the bed.

I'd rather think it was Brendans brother or the other guy who vouched for each other by saying they saw each other on the road and waved or whatever.
Or the ex boyfriend, he seemed suspect.

There are many suspects.

I feel That the documentary should have included the extra information that we now know and given us the full picture of Avery.
But either way, the prosecution did NOT prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Avery or Dassey did this and neither could be in prison.

Even Dean Strang - Avery's own defence attorney, said he isn't sure if he's guilty or innocent but the point of the documentary and all that matters in a criminal case, is proving his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt and the prosecution didn't.
He said it still haunts him.

I wrote out a huge reply and it got "lost" somehow so now I can't be arsed to write it all again.
I'll briefly say what I said

I have no idea whether he did it or not but there is a lot of evidence left out that doesn't paint him in the same light.
He wasn't this loveable, fun, innocent fluffy guy.
He had rap sheet that included dousing a cat in petrol and throwing it on a bonfire... killing animals raises a red flag straight away but there was other stuff left out too, sexual violence towards women.
He told inmates that when he gets out he'd get some shackles and rape and a torture a woman.
He did buy those shackles.... and the Halbach turned up dead behind his house, burnt on a bonfire.
Why would you stand around a bonfire that you threw tyres on, poisonous smoke all up in your lungs?

While in prison, his wife Lori divorced him. He wrote her threatening letters, one stating: “I hate you, you got your divorce now you will pay for it.” In another, he said, “If you don’t brang up my kids I will kill you. I promis. Ha. Ha.” The transcript of a 1993 hearing says these letters included drawings of how he would mutilate and kill her. Manitowoc County Circuit Judge Fred Hazelwood terminated Avery’s contact with his children after that hearing, stating “He has huge anger. He has real potential to harm people, and he's not dealt with any of that.”

Earl Avery, Steve's brother, claims that while Steve was in prison and Earl was 14 or 15, Steve would call him from prison and demand Earl have sex with Steve's wife Lori.

hubpages.com...

After his release from prison, Avery moved in with his girlfriend, Jodi Stachowski. In September 2004, he was arrested for disorderly conduct after a fight with Stachowski, and was ordered to stay away from her for 72 hours and pay a small fine.

In the summer of 2004, an unidentified relative of Avery’s under the age of 18 claimed he sexually assaulted her. The girl’s mother did not want her identified, and said the girl did not want to talk to detectives because Avery told her if she “told anyone about their activities together, he would kill her family.” The affidavit claimed Avery had admitted to his fiance that he had a sexual relationship with the girl. Avery claimed he spent time with the girl hunting and fishing, but they never had sex

. Avery was violent to other women The docuseries mentioned Avery once held his female cousin at gunpoint, but the list of violence apparently didn’t end there. The now-53-year-old allegedly raped a young girl and threatened to kill her family if they spoke out, according to a story by the Appleton Post Crescent. Another older woman told to keep quiet also accused Avery of rape, according to the paper. And, during a bail hearing for Avery, prosecutors said Avery had drawn up diagrams while in prison for a torture chamber to kill women.

. Avery requested Halbach as his photographer Prosecutors argued Avery knew Halbach was wary of him and used a different name when he called her job, specifically asking for Halbach. On the day of Halbach’s disappearance, Avery called to request “the photographer who had been out to the property previously,” according to testimony. Halbach had already visited the Avery residence six times that year to document cars for Auto Trader magazine. Avery used his sister’s name — who owned the car being photographed — when he made the photo appointment.

www.nydailynews.com...



The cops were so corrupt and dodgy that there is a lot to suggest that they did frame him and I'm totally on the fence about what happened... I honestly do not know.
All I know is that the legal system is screwed and the police are ridiculously corrupt and dishonest.

a reply to: blupblup

The film went over his priors like the cat incident. They certainly didn't paint him to be this furry, loveable guy with no issues. The fact that he had some troubles is why Manitowoc had it out for him the first time around when he was wrongfully convicted of sexual assault.

Really, none of what you mentioned is nearly enough probable cause to convict someone of murder. I keep hearing how so much was left out, but all this "left out" evidence is really weak, IMO. I've yet to hear anything compelling that was left out of the doc.

This is right in line with what was said about the jurors preliminary vote of 7 not guilty, 3 guilty and 2 undecided.

www.nbcchicago.com...

originally posted by: lovebeck

originally posted by: SkipperJohn
I just finished this last week my thoughts

Found the car in the front of a 40+ Acer lot.
Found keys after multi searches with do DNA from the victim.

Brother deleting victim voicemails.

Ex boyfriend hacking her password for cell records.

My thoughts. Her brother and her ex b/f are involved.

Amazing that the woman who found the car was lent a camera by the boyfriend....AND that she was the only one who las lent this photo.

I think it is very possible that he planned it and killed her, knowing the PD would zero in on SA. Makes more sense than SA killing her for no reason, right?

I agree the woman that found the car was lying about how she found it she basically walked right to it out of all the vehicles parked there
she finds it in less than 15 minutes?I think the whole thing was a set up from beginning to end.
where was the car when this cop called it in? this whole case stinks a complete sham from beginning to end.

I also had my suspicions that the juror's voted guilty out of fearing for their safety,not only fear of the community but also public officials and law enforcement. Hopefully this docuseries will have an effect to where something will be done.
they wanted him found guilty so I'm sure that ultimately swayed the jurors and had a lot to do with the verdict...I would love to see some heads roll in Manitowoc county Wisconsin.
link

The creators of the popular Netflix documentary series "Making a Murderer" said that a juror from Steven Avery's trial reached out to them with an important revelation.
The two filmmakers, Laura Ricciardi and Moira Demos, said on NBC's "Today" Tuesday that the juror believes Avery, who was convicted of murdering a 25-year-old woman in 2005, was not proven guilty in his trial. The juror, who voted to convict Avery, only did so out of fear for his/her personal safety, Demos said.

A Change.org petition requesting pardons for Avery and his nephew Brendan Dassey, who was also convicted in Halbach's murder, has over 200,000 signatures. A petition on Whitehouse.gov received more than 58,000. Should the White House petition receive 100,000 signatures by January 16, the White House has to respond publicly.

originally posted by: stargatetravels
Would love some of the great minds on here to do an in depth, thorough thread and investigation into this.
It's so incredible the whole thing, that I feel it deserves to be investigated including all of the stuff left out of the documentary, on both sides.
The documentary was most definitely biased in favor of Avery but the filmmakers themselves said that it wasn't supposed to be a whodunit, but merely to highlight the judicial and legal failings and wrongdoings.
There was a lot left out including the stuff about Teresa going to Avery's place multiple times and being freaked out by Avery.
Avery also touching his nephew inappropriately and many other bits of info.

It would be a great and complex thread but I hope someone takes it on and does it justice - ATS Style.

I'm waiting for my sister (an attorney) to finish watching it. Then, I may just attempt to do this. I need to gain access to the court paperwork, evidence, etc. so hopefully she can help me with that.

I think she has four or five episodes to go. She's pretty busy so idk when she will see them all. I do know that she is EXTREMELY unhappy thus far and cannot believe either of them were found guilty, let alone charged and put on trial.

a reply to: stargatetravels

That's not really evidence. BD is not and was not mentally able to handle what those two detectives were doing to him. This conversation does not prove or disprove anything.

I also read this, and have read plenty on reddit, and IMHO,nth is conversation has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

What was SA's motive? Why would he just park the car on his property and burn her body outside her bedroom window when he had access to a car crusher AND a smelter?

You need to think and go back to the days BEFORE October 31...Look and listen to those depositions, look and listen to what they were saying and who was saying it...Look at who was scheduled to be deposed in the coming weeks.

Look at who and how the car was found, it is INSANE, all of it.

The answer to all this lies in those depositions...That's what I think anyway. I cannot wait until my sister, who's a pro at untangling evidence, documents, etc. has the time to finish the documentary. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if she joined their fight, not because of their guilt or innocence, but because of the way the justice system was clearly manipulated and abused. She takes that sort of stuff like, personally, lol.

This is a true mystery, but if SA and BD killed Teresa, then they have fooled many, many people, including the filmmakers who've spent over a DECADE documenting this truly bizarre, but fascinating, case.

originally posted by: TWILITE22

originally posted by: lovebeck

originally posted by: SkipperJohn
I just finished this last week my thoughts

Found the car in the front of a 40+ Acer lot.
Found keys after multi searches with do DNA from the victim.

Brother deleting victim voicemails.

Ex boyfriend hacking her password for cell records.

My thoughts. Her brother and her ex b/f are involved.

Amazing that the woman who found the car was lent a camera by the boyfriend....AND that she was the only one who las lent this photo.

I think it is very possible that he planned it and killed her, knowing the PD would zero in on SA. Makes more sense than SA killing her for no reason, right?

I agree the woman that found the car was lying about how she found it she basically walked right to it out of all the vehicles parked there
she finds it in less than 15 minutes?I think the whole thing was a set up from beginning to end.
where was the car when this cop called it in? this whole case stinks a complete sham from beginning to end.

I also had my suspicions that the juror's voted guilty out of fearing for their safety,not only fear of the community but also public officials and law enforcement. Hopefully this docuseries will have an effect to where something will be done.
they wanted him found guilty so I'm sure that ultimately swayed the jurors and had a lot to do with the verdict...I would love to see some heads roll in Manitowoc county Wisconsin.
link

The creators of the popular Netflix documentary series "Making a Murderer" said that a juror from Steven Avery's trial reached out to them with an important revelation.
The two filmmakers, Laura Ricciardi and Moira Demos, said on NBC's "Today" Tuesday that the juror believes Avery, who was convicted of murdering a 25-year-old woman in 2005, was not proven guilty in his trial. The juror, who voted to convict Avery, only did so out of fear for his/her personal safety, Demos said.

A Change.org petition requesting pardons for Avery and his nephew Brendan Dassey, who was also convicted in Halbach's murder, has over 200,000 signatures. A petition on Whitehouse.gov received more than 58,000. Should the White House petition receive 100,000 signatures by January 16, the White House has to respond publicly.

Ikr? The ONLY person who was leant his (the ex BF in charge of her search) camera, finds her car on their property...BS!
And that cop, he called it in TWO DAYS before it was found. He called the plate in anyway. He was the SA,e one involved in SA'sfirst case, sat on evidence that would exonerate him and was responsible for several other women being raped...That's Andy Colburn. That man gives me the creeps!

Colburn, Lenk and that gross prosecutor set it up, I am convinced. I do not think they killed her, I think it was her ex boyfriend but I firmly belive they orchestrated this entire case against SA and BD.

Before they went after BD, they went after SA's girlfriend at the time. She knew better, as she had been around the block more than once and was streetwise. So, they left her alone and set their sights on poor Brendan.

Sick. Sick. Sick.