Ancient DNA sheds light on Irish Origins

It's quite interesting and if my step-siblings actually cared about their heritage I'd share this with them.

My little sister is the classic red hair and freckles. Absolutely adorable!

a reply to: beansidhe

They were blackheads

Tis a Fine Find they have there! Proves that the ancient story of migration from Scythia, through the Mediterranean Sea to Spain, and finally the Misty Isles are True!

a reply to: beansidhe

What a great post...thank you!

When finances permit, I plan on doing "23 and Me" to explore my own (very unique) genetics. Part of the impetus for me is my own HH (Hereditary Hemochromatosis). It's most fascinating to me that BOTH the Ballyanhatty woman and the Rathlin Island males ALL have genomes for HH (but of different origins if i read correctly).

Anecdotally, my family is from the West Coast of Ireland; black haired; blue eyed; some w/ very olive skin tones some quite pale. We almost all test positive (granted like millions of others of Northern European ancestry) HH.

Great thread. I always thought the Irish came from mutations in leprechauns caused by walking through the rainbow of their pot of gold. But I guess I was wrong.

Since celts have been identified to have inhabited lands stretching from Ireland all the way across northern europe and Asia at one point in prehistory as evidenced by archeological digs, why is this news? What am I missing? And wouldn't some of the Irish lineage possibly attribute to spanish sailors who managed to survive the sinking of the fleet when they were trying to attack england? No? It could have contributed black hair and darker complexion?

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: beansidhe
It honestly surprises me, they were so divided. I thought this was already a given. Though not a proven given...until now. Another history mystery solved.

Agreed. Linguistically the Celtic language and culture is related to that part of Europe, so it seemed somewhat logical that there would be a genetic connection.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: beansidhe

Very interesting. When you speak of Irish mythology, are you thinking of those of the Lost Tribes of Israel who reportedly made their way to Ireland and Britain in general?

Sadly, that was a story made up by the British Israelists in the 1870's en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: beansidhe


Fascinating results from geneticists at Trinity College, Dublin and archaeologists from Queens University, Belfast have helped to clarify the story of the Celts.

So, what does that have to do with the Gaels of Ireland...

a reply to: rumcrook

What am I missing? And wouldn't some of the Irish lineage possibly attribute to spanish sailors who managed to survive the sinking of the fleet when they were trying to attack england? No? It could have contributed black hair and darker complexion?

The point of the article is that the DNA for the Spanish lineage came from Neolithic samples, long before the timescale you are suggesting. Yes, there will have been other sources and other waves of settlers but for now there is evidence of a much older population from the region.

a reply to: beansidhe

Source for black hair blue eyes
Source for red hair blye eyes

a reply to: Marduk

It has lots and lots and lots to do with it.

In the Lebor Gabala Erenn, the story is told of an ancient forefather of the Gaels, Fenius. In total there were 6 invasions or 'takings' of Ireland.
The Cruithne were supposedly all ready here and whether or not they were proto-Celts or indigenous people we do not know.

The exciting thing about the article is that it suggests to me that not only are the stories accurate, but also stretch much further back than previously supposed. Fenius is a descendant of Magog in the story, which suggests that he is ancient - remember that the Lebor Gabala is a 'christianised' version of history. Fenius helped to build the Tower of Babel, again suggesting a history back to the beginning of time.
By the time Nel and Scotia arrive, Scotia being a daughter of a pharoah which could place her anywhere from 3000BC to the Bronze Age, the proto-Gaels are wandering the deserts a la Moses. Then they head to Scythia, to the Iberian peninsula and on to Ireland. It's not until the Tuatha de Danaan and the Milesians that the stories really become detailed.

So it seems to me that the stories have their origins in fact, the Gaels did come from Scythia and from Spain. Gaelic is one of the Celtic languages, we have a link there but we still know nothing of the Cruithne.

That is the difficult part for me, not knowing even what language the Picts spoke although maybe some of the North eastern place names can give clues. Were the Picts Cruithne? Were the Celts?

Because so much celtic literature is dismissed (and I say celtic to include the Welsh, who were not Gaels) as mythology it is very difficult to pick out facts and truths from it. This study, to me at least, demonstrates that there is truth in these stories and it could be older than we allowed ourselves to believe before.

a reply to: beansidhe

I already answered my own question in my next post to the one you are responding to

I believe the Scythians came at a later date to the original line. The origins of red hair and Rh negative blood came with the Tuuatha De Danann (original Cro magnons) after they came ashore into Ireland after the final sinking of The Atlantean archipelago roughly 1600bc (due to planet X's last passage). The blonde tribes of RH negative carried their genes into Scandanavia. I wouldn't expect a peer reviewed study on this, as it's the truth and there is a reason main stream science cannot work out the origins of RH negative blood, as it would open too big a can of worms into our actual history and the relationship between the original RH negative type 'human' and the UFO phenomenon, called Cryptoterrestrials in the trade. I've been sharing discourse with Robert Sepher on this and this is my firm belief..

Some great links here:

atlanteangardens.blogspot.cz...

aryanity.com...

a reply to: Marduk

So you did! Sorry about that, I'm trying to do two things at once here and also trying hard not to start banging on about the Picts too much.

Yes, absolutely, your links are spot on in terms of the stories and the DNA.

originally posted by: EndOfDays77
I believe the Scythians came at a later date to the original line. The origins of red hair and Rh negative blood came with the Tuuatha De Danann (original Cro magnons) after they came ashore into Ireland after the final sinking of The Atlantean archipelago roughly 1600bc (due to planet X's last passage). The blonde tribes of RH negative carried their genes into Scandanavia. I wouldn't expect a peer reviewed study on this, as it's the truth and there is a reason main stream science cannot work out the origins of RH negative blood, as it would open too big a can of worms into our actual history and the relationship between the original RH negative type 'human' and the UFO phenomenon, called Cryptoterrestrials in the trade. I've been sharing discourse with Robert Sepher on this and this is my firm belief..

Do a bit or real research chummy, this is all baloney
for instance, cro magnons weren't a separate race, they were simply the oldest Homo sapiens in Europe and their remains were named after the cro magnon rock shelter where they were found.

Cro-Magnon is a common name that has been used to describe the first early modern humans (early Homo sapiens sapiens) that lived in the European Upper Paleolithic. Current scientific literature prefers the term European early modern humans (EEMH), to the term 'Cro-Magnon,' which has no formal taxonomic status, as it refers neither to a species or subspecies nor to an archaeological phase or culture

you won't find a peer reviewed study on your claims because they are nonsense

a reply to: EndOfDays77

I believe the Scythians came at a later date to the original line.

Which later date? The article clearly explains the dates for Scythian lineage, although there may have been later ones. What date are you suggesting?
I will have to come back to the rest of your post later, but if you're calling me an RH- alien reptile thing again, I'm not going to be pleased....

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: Marduk

So you did! Sorry about that, I'm trying to do two things at once here and also trying hard not to start banging on about the Picts too much.

Yes, absolutely, your links are spot on in terms of the stories and the DNA.

I'm still figuring the Tuatha De Danaan were from Scandinavia, because the oldest tombs in Ireland have precursors which are only found in Scandinavia. and of course because the story says they came from three cities in the North

That leaves what, the Cruthin as the Fir Bolg?

a reply to: Marduk

The Tuatha were almost certainly Bronze Age types, they came over with their fancy metal work (sword, spear and Dagda's cauldron) and stone. They were said to be magical, which made me think they were the ones who brought the beautiful metalwork over, seemingly magical to the locals. They always come over as a bit 'fancy' in the stories, a bit foreign.

Angus, king of Ireland was said to have slain Cruithne, Fir Bolg and Fomorians alike, and they are specified as three distinct groups. I'm sure the Fir Bolg had Greek connections, although I might have just made that up.

Oengus Olmucaid

This is where the chronologies really do my head in, because there are only decades between some groups whereas in reality I think there were centuries.

The Cruithne could have been the Scandanavians though - there's some thought that the Picts came from Denmark. There was a grave of a Pict unearthed not that long ago, I'll need to find that story. The legend was that he was a great Pict, and when his DNA was tested he was Danish.