A racist black professor lectures all white people on how racist they are.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: theySeeme

First, just because you're Black doesn't mean you speak for "all Black people."

Second, while I do qualify as a "wierdo" I certainly have not said that you are wrong for holding on to the past. May I suggest you read a bit more carefully and stop lumping together multiple posters into an easy object for your own disagreement.

Third, nothing in what I said that you replied to fails to address police overreach, in fact, it does the opposite.

Fourth, most of your argument is nothing more than garden-variety rhetoric with no factual basis ... i.e. you are a significant part of the problem my post was pointing to.

As a Black American, what are you doing to improve the lot of Black people? What are you doing to make things better in your community? What specific help do you need to address the inequities that exist?

Answers to these questions would move the discussion productively forward; you're merely rehashing the same garbage that got us here.

If you want to sweep current events under the rug as you've done in this post, that's fine, I won't. Current events are a perfect example of where society stands, currently - and that stance is racism. It's the same reason most trump supporters are racist - because supporting him is like wearing a badge for them - it's a social club, much like being a fan of a sports team.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I didn't mean "let it go" like that. I agree with you (I know, crazy huh?)... I don't think it should be discussed in the fashion that it is the direct result of things we do today as we're far removed from it all. By letting it go, I mean that whites shouldn't be blamed for what happened out of our control. You covered all of that in your response to TheySeeme, and I agree fully.

a reply to: theySeeme

If you want to sweep current events under the rug as you've done in this post, that's fine, I won't. Current events are a perfect example of where society stands, currently - and that stance is racism. It's the same reason most trump supporters are racist - because supporting him is like wearing a badge for them - it's a social club, much like being a fan of a sports team.

If society is overwhelmingly racist, we would see an overwhelming influx of hate crimes. Except there are very few hate crimes a year, most of them acts of vandalism, and the majority of them against Jews. I don't think you are looking at reality for your current events.

originally posted by: theySeeme

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: theySeeme

First, just because you're Black doesn't mean you speak for "all Black people."

Second, while I do qualify as a "wierdo" I certainly have not said that you are wrong for holding on to the past. May I suggest you read a bit more carefully and stop lumping together multiple posters into an easy object for your own disagreement.

Third, nothing in what I said that you replied to fails to address police overreach, in fact, it does the opposite.

Fourth, most of your argument is nothing more than garden-variety rhetoric with no factual basis ... i.e. you are a significant part of the problem my post was pointing to.

As a Black American, what are you doing to improve the lot of Black people? What are you doing to make things better in your community? What specific help do you need to address the inequities that exist?

Answers to these questions would move the discussion productively forward; you're merely rehashing the same garbage that got us here.

If you want to sweep current events under the rug as you've done in this post, that's fine, I won't. Current events are a perfect example of where society stands, currently - and that stance is racism. It's the same reason most trump supporters are racist - because supporting him is like wearing a badge for them - it's a social club, much like being a fan of a sports team.

What a delightful opinion.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: theySeeme

If you want to sweep current events under the rug as you've done in this post, that's fine, I won't. Current events are a perfect example of where society stands, currently - and that stance is racism. It's the same reason most trump supporters are racist - because supporting him is like wearing a badge for them - it's a social club, much like being a fan of a sports team.

If society is overwhelmingly racist, we would see an overwhelming influx of hate crimes. Except there are very few hate crimes a year, most of them acts of vandalism, and the majority of them against Jews. I don't think you are looking at reality for your current events.

Any facts supporting the claim that most hate crimes are vandalism acts against jews?

Also, if you could, tell us who commits these crimes of vandalism against jews, I can assure you it's not minorities!

originally posted by: CallYourBluff
I'm 32 and drink quite a lot, but I don't recall owning any slaves or commiting genocide.(Maybe during a black out)Why,exactly am I supposed to feel guilty for the chip on the shoulders of the black man?

OK...so I am not a fan of this professors communication style and I do think the letter is unnecessarily antagonistic and a product of him living in a bubble of discussing and studying race issues.

BUT...From a pure read and think perspective....

He has defined "racist" as participating in a racist system...the premise being that someone can exist who is absolutely not racist by the traditional definition, but if you participate in a system (economic, legal, capitalistic) where color gives you advantage or disadvantage...then you are racist by "taint".

Agree or disagree...it would be nice if people were debating the proper arguments..

I can see that this letter is being misunderstood. This letter is not asking you to feel bad about yourself, to wallow in guilt.

..

I’m asking for you to tarry, to linger, with the ways in which you perpetuate a racist society

..

Again, take a deep breath. Don’t tell me about how many black friends you have. Don’t tell me that you are married to someone of color. Don’t tell me that you voted for Obama. Don’t tell me that I’m the racist. Don’t tell me that you don’t see color. Don’t tell me that I’m blaming whites for everything. To do so is to hide yet again. You may have never used the N-word in your life, you may hate the K.K.K., but that does not mean that you don’t harbor racism and benefit from racism. After all, you are part of a system that allows you to walk into stores where you are not followed, where you get to go for a bank loan and your skin does not count against you, where you don’t need to engage in “the talk” that black people and people of color must tell their children when they are confronted by white police officers.

As you reap comfort from being white, we suffer for being black and people of color. But your comfort is linked to our pain and suffering. Just as my comfort in being male is linked to the suffering of women, which makes me sexist, so, too, you are racist.

...

The legal scholar Stephanie M. Wildman, has written, “I simply believe that no matter how hard I work at not being racist, I still am. Because part of racism is systemic, I benefit from the privilege that I am struggling to see.” And the journalism professor Robert Jensen: “I like to think I have changed, even though I routinely trip over the lingering effects of that internalized racism and the institutional racism around me. Every time I walk into a store at the same time as a black man and the security guard follows him and leaves me alone to shop, I am benefiting from white privilege.”

opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...

So the questions to ask...

(A) Does "institutional racism" still exist?
My take..yes..
Apart from general societal issues...thorough and solid studies have been done recently..just a couple of weeks ago an exhaustive study of white vs. black offenders was done...identical crimes...blacks on average got 20% longer prison sentences.

Blacks more likely to be pulled over or interact with cops..

Blacks with the same credit scores more likely to be turned down for a home loan..

etc. etc.

Better than 50 years ago? Absolutely. Do we still have an institutional bias? Undoubtedly

(B) Does that make white people that don't feel that same institutional bias...racist by association?

I am not convinced. We are moving politically and policy wise in the right direction. I believe the awareness he is demanding already exists amongst most Americans. It's a hot topic these days. The issue of institutional racism still exists and is in fact costing lives both literally and figuratively with a growing prison population.

Hell...I smoked pot as a kid..in a small 95% white town. We got into all kinds of trouble. We knew the cops and the cops knew us. When we got got caught they would confiscate the pot or if we mouthed off...call our parents..

If I grew up in a black neighborhood in the city? I'd be in prison.

Yes...I received grace that I likely didn't recognize throughout my life, where a black man might have had it harder..

But does that make me "racist" by default? Not buying that argument and I do think we are continuing to work to purge our institutions of racial bias..And we are working in that direction because of many of the loud voices speaking up right now...

So..I have no problem with his letter, even if I don't fully agree with it.

Debate is healthy...when the right questions are debated.

a reply to: theySeeme

You're full of crap. I haven't swept anything under the rug.

You're doing precisely nothing to move the discussion forward productively.

Stop whining, and lying about what others are saying, and make a suggestion.

What specific things in what specific places do you want to see happen?

You're gesturing wildly at a huge wall of your belief, and in return, people do the same thing to you.

BE SPECIFIC; what ways are you personally discriminated against, or mistreated? Talk about what you actually know.

And stop with the insulting BS ... if you had been here longer than 10 minutes, you'd know my stance on the issues is in direct opposition to what you're trying to lump me into.

/shrug

a reply to: theySeeme

You were right to call me on that. I was wrong, and will take back my statement. I confused the racial-biased with religious-bias.

www.fbi.gov... /victims_final

For clarity:

Among single-bias hate crime incidents in 2014, there were 3,227 victims of racially motivated hate crime.

62.7 percent were victims of crimes motivated by their offenders’ anti-Black or African American bias.
22.7 percent were victims of anti-White bias.
6.2 percent were victims of anti-Asian bias.
4.6 percent were victims of anti-American Indian or Alaska Native bias.
3.7 percent were victims of bias against a group of individuals in which more than one race was represented (anti-multiple races, group).
0.1 percent (4 individuals) were victims of anti-Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander bias. (Based on Table 1.)

Nonetheless, victims of anti-black hate crimes represent 0.0006 of the population of the United States.

originally posted by: LSU0408
a reply to: Gryphon66

I didn't mean "let it go" like that. I agree with you (I know, crazy huh?)... I don't think it should be discussed in the fashion that it is the direct result of things we do today as we're far removed from it all. By letting it go, I mean that whites shouldn't be blamed for what happened out of our control. You covered all of that in your response to TheySeeme, and I agree fully.

Because all of us have been culturally herded into one of "two sides" and we end up supporting BS that we don't personally believe.

Of course you agree with me, what I said was true. LOL. No, seriously, if we all started focusing on what we can PROVE rather than what we THINK or what we BELIEVE (me included) these discussions here and in the macrocosm of our American society might actually start making some productive headway for a change.

No one should be blamed for anythign they didn't personally do, or that they are advocating for. I agree with you.

If you, like me, as a (Southern?) white man born in the 20th century living in the 21st aren't a racist ... then no one should be allowed to call you one. Period, end of story.

The problem is, we have to make sure that we aren't buying into culturally-enforced BS unconsciously or out of habit.

It's really hard to become truly an independent thinker ... if it's possible at all.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I will watch from the side lines. Racism used to be about exploiting your fellow human beings, now its about internal insecurities people have.

a reply to: theySeeme

They WHY are they NOT being slaughtered right and left?
Blacks aren't good combatants as a group ,their mostly brawlers and not much in a stand up fight ,when their primary concern in life is what shade of brown they are, easy to goad and kill so WHY haven't we done so?
LAWS?
how can any "racist" system POSSIBLY have laws favoring blacks?
FEAR, I won't even cover that,we aren't, as a skin shade, too concerned with those types getting into power,as we already watch one in melt down,and all he has accomplished for his P.C. army he has duped.
You know its REALLY interesting how come all the prejudice suddenly brewed up after we elected this reverse racist clown.
His interest in activism has served to propelled the world into a world war.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: theySeeme

They WHY are they NOT being slaughtered right and left?
Blacks aren't good combatants as a group ,their mostly brawlers and not much in a stand up fight ,when their primary concern in life is what shade of brown they are, easy to goad and kill so WHY haven't we done so?
LAWS?
how can any "racist" system POSSIBLY have laws favoring blacks?
FEAR, I won't even cover that,we aren't, as a skin shade, too concerned with those types getting into power,as we already watch one in melt down,and all he has accomplished for his P.C. army he has duped.
You know its REALLY interesting how come all the prejudice suddenly brewed up after we elected this reverse racist clown.
His interest in activism has served to propelled the world into a world war.

You are proving my point, keep posting, please.

The fact that you even have an opinion about whether or not "blacks are good combatants" says a lot.

a reply to: Indigo5

"just a couple of weeks ago an exhaustive study of white vs. black offenders was done...identical crimes...blacks on average got 20% longer prison sentences.

Blacks more likely to be pulled over or interact with cops..

Blacks with the same credit scores more likely to be turned down for a home loan..

etc. etc. "

What factored into that study? Did the blacks have the same rap sheet as the white when pulled over? What were they doing to get pulled over? Were they calling about the home loans or were they appearing in person? What bank were they being turned down by? Were they trying to buy identical houses?

I'm not telling you that you're wrong, I'm just trying to find out what factored into this study. Saying things like this is why we can't move past the divide, in my opinion.

And anything titled "Dear White America" is hard to consider unbiased. Not to mention, George Yancy is a professor of philosophy at Emory University. He has written, edited and co-edited numerous books, including “Black Bodies, White Gazes,” “Look, a White!” and “Pursuing Trayvon Martin,” co-edited with Janine Jones.

I think his 19 interviews are lacking proper statistics and information. And skimming over his article, he doesn't seem too particular of any race other than his own.

originally posted by: majkaveli
a reply to: Gryphon66

I will watch from the side lines. Racism used to be about exploiting your fellow human beings, now its about internal insecurities people have.

Racism is about what it's always been about ... the focus on differences between people that really make little difference in and of themselves, but that are used and internalized to justify what we do and how we act toward others.

Racism is also a special expression of primate xenophobia ... us/them/them bad.

I would have thought we would have grown out of it by now ... as we haven't, I am beginning to think it may be here to stay ... so we need to learn to live with each other productively ANYWAY in spite of our racism.

And, finally, everyone is racist. The extent to which we do not allow that internalized racism to affect our thinking or our behavior is a measure of the content of our character, in my opinion.

To say that a member of a minority can't be racist (or sexist, or in whatever way still prejudiced against others unfairly) is pure BS.

a reply to: theySeeme

WHAT does it say?
You haven't read history?
I'm a bigot?
Which race?
My Korean Ex wife KNOWS I'm not a bigot.
CAN you show me a world class army composed ENTIRELY of black panthers?
If you ignore the part about the SKIN SHADE then YOU are the racist here by virtue of social bias.

originally posted by: theySeeme

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: theySeeme

They WHY are they NOT being slaughtered right and left?
Blacks aren't good combatants as a group ,their mostly brawlers and not much in a stand up fight ,when their primary concern in life is what shade of brown they are, easy to goad and kill so WHY haven't we done so?
LAWS?
how can any "racist" system POSSIBLY have laws favoring blacks?
FEAR, I won't even cover that,we aren't, as a skin shade, too concerned with those types getting into power,as we already watch one in melt down,and all he has accomplished for his P.C. army he has duped.
You know its REALLY interesting how come all the prejudice suddenly brewed up after we elected this reverse racist clown.
His interest in activism has served to propelled the world into a world war.

You are proving my point, keep posting, please.

The fact that you even have an opinion about whether or not "blacks are good combatants" says a lot.

Keep sniping from the sidelines; you're not interested in productive conversation, you want to argue about lies and attack other people.

Waah. Do something to make things better besides whining on the internet.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: theySeeme

You were right to call me on that. I was wrong, and will take back my statement. I confused the racial-biased with religious-bias.

www.fbi.gov... /victims_final

For clarity:

Among single-bias hate crime incidents in 2014, there were 3,227 victims of racially motivated hate crime.

62.7 percent were victims of crimes motivated by their offenders’ anti-Black or African American bias.
22.7 percent were victims of anti-White bias.
6.2 percent were victims of anti-Asian bias.
4.6 percent were victims of anti-American Indian or Alaska Native bias.
3.7 percent were victims of bias against a group of individuals in which more than one race was represented (anti-multiple races, group).
0.1 percent (4 individuals) were victims of anti-Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander bias. (Based on Table 1.)

Nonetheless, victims of anti-black hate crimes represent 0.0006 of the population of the United States.

Also, how often is a black on white crime considered or listed as a hate crime?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: LSU0408
a reply to: Gryphon66

I didn't mean "let it go" like that. I agree with you (I know, crazy huh?)... I don't think it should be discussed in the fashion that it is the direct result of things we do today as we're far removed from it all. By letting it go, I mean that whites shouldn't be blamed for what happened out of our control. You covered all of that in your response to TheySeeme, and I agree fully.

If you, like me, as a (Southern?) white man born in the 20th century living in the 21st aren't a racist ... then no one should be allowed to call you one. Period, end of story.

The problem is, we have to make sure that we aren't buying into culturally-enforced BS unconsciously or out of habit.

(A) There are outright racists in the USA..both closeted and outspoken. Less so than 50 years ago and more closeted the outspoken. Dogwhistle political rhetoric exploits this voting block..Dogwhistle in that the language and tactics used appeals to racists without being explicitly racist.

Sidenote: A recent study found that in the 2008 election, McCains campaign consistently darkened Obama's complexion in anti-Obama ads, sometimes pretty ridiculously.

(B) The argument this professor makes (which I don't necessarily agree with) is that White people that don't suffer the same discrimination institutionally (economic - loan denials...legal/police...sentencing, arrests, interactions) etc. are "racist" by their participation in an institution that still has a racial bias.

If he is asking for acknowledgement that racism still exists in our "institutions"...sure...speak-up, we need to ferret it out every chance we get. But the idea that all whites are blind to the discrimination or content with it...or significantly benefit...and are "racist" through participation...that is a heavy lift and I think he over-reached.

Just my 2 cents and offered because you appeared interested in discussing meat vs. rhetorical fluff.

I live near Emory University. My partner is an alumnus, and is a current graduate student.

I love Emory, always have. I wanted to come here myself, but that's not the way life panned out.

And Emory is one of the most liberal university campuses in the nation ... and it was still a target of a list of 30 or so "demands" from "Black Students of Emory" that finally tipped me over the edge.

I'll treat anyone equitably and as fairly as I can. I'll be glad to work and contribute to groups that try to make a positive difference, but I will NO LONGER be a part of advocating for racists who happen to be Black ...

... and that number seems to be growing every day.

We do not end discrimination by discriminating, nor do we address inequity by advocating for unequality.

originally posted by: LSU0408
a reply to: Indigo5

What factored into that study? Did the blacks have the same rap sheet as the white when pulled over? What were they doing to get pulled over? Were they calling about the home loans or were they appearing in person? What bank were they being turned down by? Were they trying to buy identical houses?

I'm not telling you that you're wrong, I'm just trying to find out what factored into this study. Saying things like this is why we can't move past the divide, in my opinion.

I can google up the studies when time affords, I am at work now...but specifically the recent sentencing study was a large sample and really rigorous in comparing apples to apples. Same crimes and offense records (1st strike, 2nd strike) etc. African Americans got 20% longer sentences.


Is it your position that institutional racism does not exist?