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An outsiders questions on US gun control.

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posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 02:43 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

A gun will not help them, only hinder.




posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 02:45 PM
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originally posted by: Pants3204

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Pants3204
It's simple. Why should I be allowed to defend myself in my home, but nowhere else?


What are you wanting to defend yourself against?

Carjacking, mugging, wild animals, etc. Essentially any dangers to me or my family that may occur outside of the home.


I will concede that point Sir,

I have the fortune to live in a pretty modern civilisation that has none of the worries that your culture seems to still have.

Aside from the wild animals I would suggest you look to removing these threats from your society and then the need to arm yourself in public.



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 02:45 PM
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originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: Pants3204

I can defend myself from someone who has a knife, rock, or their fists fairly easily. In the majority of circumstances simply running away is the best solution, anyway, without also being a danger to other citizens by carrying a loaded firearm.

I can't imagine getting carjacked by someone with a rock.

The Wild Animal argument isn't one I can really relate to. Every animal over here that will kill you will likely kill you without you even realising it's happened.


Situational awareness, being alert, and running away are absolutely the best ways to prevent an attack on you or your family. No one is arguing that, and our positions aren't mutually exclusive here. If given the opportunity you should definitely still do those things.

But, if the circumstances dictate that none of these things prevented a violent encounter, I have the right to put up as big a fight as possible.
edit on ppm1231383204 by Pants3204 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 02:46 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Pants3204

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Pants3204
It's simple. Why should I be allowed to defend myself in my home, but nowhere else?


What are you wanting to defend yourself against?

Carjacking, mugging, wild animals, etc. Essentially any dangers to me or my family that may occur outside of the home.


I will concede that point Sir,

I have the fortune to live in a pretty modern civilisation that has none of the worries that your culture seems to still have.

Aside from the wild animals I would suggest you look to removing these threats from your society and then the need to arm yourself in public.
What utopia do you live in where these crimes do not happen?



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 02:47 PM
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originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
A gun will not help them, only hinder.


Really? So besides being some sort of internet Bruce Lee who can defend themselves against all types of deadly weapons with their bare hands you also are able to prognosticate every other situation involving an armed assailant versus a person carrying a firearm who is not a MMA superstar like you?



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 02:49 PM
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originally posted by: Freeborn
Well, this has been a strange sort of thread to read.

First of all I thought 'here we go again, another gun control thread - bound to go the usual way, "I've got a bigger dick than you", blah blah blah', but no...it seemed to be reasonably ok with genuine attempts to understand and inform on both sides.

Got to say that the OP was pretty much outnumbered and was always facing an uphill struggle.
I got the impression he was genuine in his efforts to understand.

But the thing is its hard - its one of the glaring differences in our respective societies.

And then the inevitable.
It started with the little digs and insinuations of superiority and the one-sided viewpoint of historical events and their causations.
Then came the now all too common open insults resulting in yet another ruined thread.

Still, it was good while it lasted.


No star for your post as it would promote taking sides as we are both non US members.

Creedence however for understanding the differences between two cultures and the attempt to find common ground.



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 02:50 PM
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a reply to: Pants3204

The issue is that the "big a fight as possible" may also injure innocents. You shoot at some assailant and miss. Where does the bullet go? It doesn't just stop. Depending on the gun, it can pass through windows, thin walls, cars and end up in some unlucky person's spine.

If you are being attacked by someone in the middle of nowhere, then you likely have far larger issues.



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 02:53 PM
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originally posted by: Pants3204

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Pants3204

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Pants3204
It's simple. Why should I be allowed to defend myself in my home, but nowhere else?


What are you wanting to defend yourself against?

Carjacking, mugging, wild animals, etc. Essentially any dangers to me or my family that may occur outside of the home.


I will concede that point Sir,

I have the fortune to live in a pretty modern civilisation that has none of the worries that your culture seems to still have.

Aside from the wild animals I would suggest you look to removing these threats from your society and then the need to arm yourself in public.
What utopia do you live in where these crimes do not happen?


I live in a large town in the UK, we have no natural predators, our criminals pretty much keep there wars to themselves and if it gets out of hand then bigger boys(ie. local biker groups and the general communities) tend to slap the silly out of them.)

We do have crime but it is mainly idiots and drug users and this is pretty easy to deal with.

Car jacking is something we hear about in the world wide news.

It is quite nice.



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 02:55 PM
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originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: Pants3204

The issue is that the "big a fight as possible" may also injure innocents. You shoot at some assailant and miss. Where does the bullet go? It doesn't just stop. Depending on the gun, it can pass through windows, thin walls, cars and end up in some unlucky person's spine.

If you are being attacked by someone in the middle of nowhere, then you likely have far larger issues.


Sure. That's a necessary evil and that's why you practice with your firearm, assuming the danger persists long enough to call for using it.

But what about your own spine?

Is the chance of potentially hurting a bystander worth giving yourself up to an attacker?
edit on ppm1231393204 by Pants3204 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 02:56 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Stop it with the ad-hominen.

What? No, I'm a terrible fighter. Please don't extrapolate wildly like that. Being able to defend yourself doesn't necessitate MMA or street brawling. It only requires the ability to accurately judge a situation.
Any deadly weapon that isn't a gun I could just run away from, anyway. Unless there have been a recent rash of bow wielding muggers?

A gun is false confidence. If you have the training necessary to use it properly, it's unlikely you'll actually need it.
A gun also leads to a massive escalation of conflict.
edit on 28/12/2015 by Eilasvaleleyn because: Reasons



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 02:57 PM
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a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

And when presented with a situation where you cannot run away from a violent attacker, and your situational awareness has failed you, then what?



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 02:57 PM
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originally posted by: JIMC5499

originally posted by: nonspecific
Does it not worry you that others also have the same freedoms and abuse them so badly and create such an enviroment that you would need to be armed to feel safe?


Let me ask you a question. The "others" that you speak of, already violate the laws that we have. If we change our laws, what makes you think that they are going to obey them? If the "others" don't obey the law, it kind of makes the law useless.



What has happened to your society that so many wish to vilolate your laws and suffer the punishements?

What happened? Really? We have criminals here but it sounds like you have a reall problem with this?

What could be done to make these people not do this anymore? Why do they feel the need to be like this?



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 02:59 PM
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a reply to: Pants3204

The issue I ultimately have is that "practice" and firearm safety are not something I can count upon others to have. Which is why I am advocate for primary-school classes on gun safety.

I am having trouble imagining a scenario where your only option is to use a firearm or give yourself up, that does not necessitate being cornered by six people in a dead-end alleyway.



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 02:59 PM
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originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
Any deadly weapon that isn't a gun I could just run away from, anyway. Unless there have been a recent rash of bow wielding muggers?


Good for you. What about the people who cannot run away from an armed assailant?

A gun is false confidence.


A gun is a tool that one uses, just like other tools, in scenarios that call for them.


If you have the training necessary to use it properly, it's unlikely you'll actually need it.


Got your crystal ball out again? My, you do like to make absolutist statements in an attempt to prove your point.

A gun also leads to a massive escalation of conflict.


And armed assailant who looks upon a victim who is either unarmed or not suspected of being armed has already escalated the situation massively on their own.



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 03:00 PM
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originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Stop it with the ad-hominen.

What? No, I'm a terrible fighter. Please don't extrapolate wildly like that. Being able to defend yourself doesn't necessitate MMA or street brawling. It only requires the ability to accurately judge a situation.
Any deadly weapon that isn't a gun I could just run away from, anyway. Unless there have been a recent rash of bow wielding muggers?

A gun is false confidence. If you have the training necessary to use it properly, it's unlikely you'll actually need it.
A gun also leads to a massive escalation of conflict.


I am as stated an outsider here but in my mind anyone that knows how to use a gun and defend themselves would be highly unlikely to put themselves in a situation where they would have too.


First rule of self defense, don't put yourself in danger.



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 03:02 PM
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a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

Or to prevent a fight from happening. Last year I was on crutches for quite a while. I was asked to go to one of our other offices for a meeting. The office is in a not so nice section of town. (think dealing crack in Happy Meals) When I go to this office I always carry a pistol. It was just getting dark when I was leaving and I had been asked to give two of our customer's reps a ride back to their hotel. As we were leaving, I saw three men sitting on the hood of a car, passing a bottle wrapped with a paper bag around. They took a look and got off of the car and started towards us. Here I am on crutches, with two extremely good looking young women and about $10,000 worth of electronic equipment. (computers, cell phones, I-pads, etc.) Think easy target. I stop as if I was adjusting my grip on a crutch, casually pull my jacket aside, revealing my pistol. They take a look, see the pistol, get into their car and leave. The two women that I was with didn't notice a thing. What would have happened if I didn't have the pistol that day. I don't know for sure, but, I was glad I had it.



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 03:03 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
Any deadly weapon that isn't a gun I could just run away from, anyway. Unless there have been a recent rash of bow wielding muggers?


Good for you. What about the people who cannot run away from an armed assailant?

A gun is false confidence.


A gun is a tool that one uses, just like other tools, in scenarios that call for them.


If you have the training necessary to use it properly, it's unlikely you'll actually need it.


Got your crystal ball out again? My, you do like to make absolutist statements in an attempt to prove your point.

A gun also leads to a massive escalation of conflict.


And armed assailant who looks upon a victim who is either unarmed or not suspected of being armed has already escalated the situation massively on their own.


Good god where do you live?

Is it really that dangerous there? I thought it was not too bad in a lot of the US?

Really? is this a day to day kind of thing?



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 03:03 PM
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a reply to: Pants3204

Then a gun will not help me, because they are already close enough that I would not have time to draw it, let alone aim and fire it. I am quite likely screwed regardless of what I try. However, I would search for an opening while trying to avoid taking critical damage, then jam a pen into their eye socket.



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 03:04 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific
I am as stated an outsider here but in my mind anyone that knows how to use a gun and defend themselves would be highly unlikely to put themselves in a situation where they would have too.


Must be a wonderful place where no one ever makes a wrong turn, or ends up walking into an unpredictable situation or people do not break into other people's homes with intent to do harm.



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 03:05 PM
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originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: Pants3204

I am having trouble imagining a scenario where your only option is to use a firearm or give yourself up, that does not necessitate being cornered by six people in a dead-end alleyway.


What if you are disabled? There are plenty of scenarios where your life is in immediate danger and you stand a better chance of survival by fighting than running. Thankfully the constitution doesn't bind our rights to the limits of our imagination.



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