The Downsides of Being Beautiful

I have made no claim that my whole argument here stems from personal experience, I used some personal anecdotes to help me illustrate ideas, as have you.

I did not take your doing that as an invitation for me to psychoanalyze you based on that limited amount of information.
I did not try to make judgements about the veracity of your statements and claims about your experience.
Apparently our ideas about respectful and polite exchange, it seems, are different!

I guess I could reciprocate, there is just as much I could do to paint your personality and motives in undesirable ways, but I won't.

You also exaggerrate what I say - I never ever made any suggestion that " just because someone beautiful receives praise or criticism means that that is because they are beautiful." That is ridiculous!

-----------------------------------

For other readers here, take a look into the findings on the halo effect, which has shown up in studies beginning in 1915, and have been numerous since then. We are not talking then, about sexual attraction!
We are talking about peoples tendency to associate positive characteristics with appearence that is attractive.
Some studies were done with babies, some were done with same sex observers. Officers in the military judging photos of soldiers.

It is subtle and the bias might not even be obvious. But it makes children develop differently, because they are very sensitive to the feedback (verbal and otherwise) that they get from adults around them. It can limit their lives as adults. It effects the work place and how well one can evolve in it or not.

The difficulties, in my mind, are everyones - this is not about feeling sympathetic to one "group" over another.
(what a typical american polarisation). The difficulties are all of ours - no matter what part we play in this each day.
We have seen people in a more positive light than is realistic, and have been seen so; we have discriminated against and been discriminated against.

Yes, I will agree with the majority here - the majority of Americans do not have the difficulty of feeling shame, guilt, or concern about it - the value upon ego, opportunism and ambition has probably destroyed most of the social inequity aversion in the people.

But the argument that the halo effect does not exist , I won't ever agree with. The evidence is so overwhelming and we most of know it from experience and observation (no matter how differently we may feel about it).

I've been thinking the worst downside to being beautiful....getting old and loosing the main thing they leveraged the most to survive. I've seen that shock before when trophy wives are dumped and left realing.

and when pretty boy's (not to be confused with hansom) can't get the respect they may or may not deserve from men. both in the work force and as peers. it's sorta like with men you loose respect with the rest of them for getting a nearly free ride through life and not paying dues and putting in back breaking work like the rest of them. that must sting too when they hit that wall.

too me those are the greatest perils about being physically beautiful. the wall they will invariably run into. and the lack of or limited life skills they are stuck coping with the rest of life on.

I know a guy who's in his late 30s. eeped by his whole life not having to really work, or make a living. some person would always take care of him and he'd basically Gigalo it up. guys getting too old for that anymore, has been evicted twice in the last 8 months and fired from his pizza delivery job because he couldn't even handle that. I've stoped talking to him because he's pathetic and I don't have time for that sort but those who have checked in with him have discovered he's exchanging the last of his looks to live at someold lady's house er bed. thats gotta be rough. but at the same time i dont pitty him. i tried in his 20s teaching him a trade, so hed have some sort of applicable life n job skills but he threw that away cause it was easy to leverage his looks for a free ride at the time.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Exactly. One of the dangers I have perceived is in not recognizing, consciously, that you are getting a big hand up because of appearence, and end up forming a higher opinion of your talent, intelligence, skills, than is realistically true.

I guess that is why I am insisting so much on pointing out this happens- because besides those who are aware and using it intentionally, there are many that simply aren't aware, or are in a state of denial (out of concern for being "humble") and therefore setting themselves up for some hard clashes with reality later.

Okay, the intentional free riders deserve the crash and burn,
but not the ones who have actually been trying to adhere to values upon humility and not focus on superficial facets.

a reply to: Bluesma
a reply to: BASSPLYR


That's not true. I have taken the Terra Nova--I scored in the 99th to 100th percentile--meaning I am the 1%. Based on that score, I am qualified to be a member of Mensa (but I won't because Mensa means idiot in Spanish lol). Therefore, no.

If you read the studies, then you will see that what you're saying is cool for an opinion--and is definitely true in the case of people who are mildly attractive, perhaps. But for people who are highly symmetrical and highly intelligent, what you said is not true. In fact, I doubt my abilities all of the time. I have an eating disorder. I often hate myself, actually. So I think you're being a bit unfair.

This article isn't about attractive people in general. It's about people who are highly symmetrical--those people are INCREDIBLY RARE. 1% of people. One. That's it. That's why you don't hear about this kind of thing. You can believe me or not, but the studies and the evidence don't lie.

I realize that I can't say any of this without sounding arrogant. I knew that when I wrote the thread. I knew what peoples' reactions would be. But I did it anyway. Because this is true. And because I really don't care what anyone thinks of me. What matters is that I know who I am. That's all I need. But I want everyone to be aware of this because maybe next time when you feel jealous and get angry at someone for having something that you want and can't have, maybe you'll remember me and think twice and cool your anger because it's damaging--to the target and to yourself. Especially to yourself. I am glad that I don't know what jealousy feels like to feel. I've only ever felt what it does when it's aimed at me. And it really hurts. So I can only imagine what it feels like to the feeler. It must be awful. And guess what, I know how you can never feel that emotion ever again!

You know how to do that? It's easy--but it also might be hard depending on who you are. But it's absolutely necessary. You need to accept yourself for who you are and be happy with it. You're only ever going to be you. And you're the only you there is--so you're the best you! Isn't that great? There's no need to be jealous of anyone because everyone is different. That is the point. If you can believe that, then that's all I want.

The point of this thread is that we need to talk about this. Nothing can be done besides talk about it in the hopes that some people open their eyes to the truth and realize that they don't have to live in such a fake and mean way. If people would stop trying to be somebody else, none of this would be a problem.

This is anything but superficial and if you think it's superficial, then I'm going to call transference on that B.S.

And why is getting old a bad thing? Beauty fades, dumb is forever, as Judge Judy always says! I can't wait till I get old, I'm going to be such a funny and obnoxious old person!

a reply to: Bluesma

And be sure to read all of that. You must not have read my other posts (or the OP--just like the majority of people commenting here like there's actually something here to debate when there isn't lol) But, I'm sure if you did you would understand. Same goes for everyone else. Don't just comment back on reflex. Think about it for a second please. Come on. Let's have an intelligent conversation. This isn't a debate. There is nothing to debate. The thread is factual. You cannot disprove that. So stop trying--it's insane lol

I want a POSITIVE and PROACTIVE conversation. I have explained everything and given plenty of information that you can plug into google and find out for yourself if it is true or not. So, there is no excuse for not understanding--unless you're just lazy. The only other answer is cognitive dissonance, and if it is that, then you're going to continue to respond negatively. Because nobody who is lucid would continue to try to debate something that is not debatable. That's the definition of insane. Doing something over and over expecting a different response. You're not going to change the truth. Well, not unless you can do your own legitimate studies and disprove the studies that exist--and good luck Irene! lol I'd like to see that happen. Your opinions aren't an argument valid enough to debate the legitimacy of the topic of this thread.

Come on. Stop letting your emotion guide you. Please use your head. And that's not just to you, btw. My comments back to you are also general statements to the majority of commenters and readers of this thread.

At least do your own research. Sheesh. How can anybody try to say that something isn't true without looking into it for themselves? That's the definition of ignorance. And here, on ATS, we DENY IGNORANCE.

That's what I'm all about. So let's do that. Put your feels aside, and let's deny that ignorance together. It'll be fun! Come on, you know you wanna Why can't we have a nice conversation?

Basically, if we can't have a nice conversation all you are really doing is proving me even more right.
But that conversation isn't going to be about disproving the OP unless you've done your research. And if you do your research, there is nothing to debate. So there you have it!

I win, regardless. If there was anything to win. Which there wasn't lol

This isn't a competition.

Stop making it one.

I am right. The end.

So, since I am right, how does that make you feel? Was this information new to you? Did you not realize that this was a problem? That's what I want to talk about. Productive things. Things that move toward a solution.

Unless your comments are in line with that, I'm not going to be responding to anyone anymore. I have better things to do than cast more of my pearls before swine. I was just hoping that ATS would be different. But I guess not. How disappointing. At least some of you understood. That made me very happy. For those of you who understood the OP, thank you--and God bless you. And to everyone, I wish you all the very best of everything. Have a wonderful rest of your day.

a reply to: Bluesma

Your halo and horns thing is quite correct--and that is unfortunately what happens in school, which I hate. I think that everyone should be taught as though they have potential. Because everyone does have potential.

Everyone has gifts. Nobody is better than anybody else. But what is better, exactly? We're all different. There's no better or worse. We all have our virtues and faults. Nobody is perfect. That's why we should all try to get along and be nice to one another.

And to clarify, those other two comments weren't so much to you but more general statements to participants in the thread as a whole. I think I made that distinction somewhere in those essays haha but I'm not positive so I wanted to say it again just in case. You're not being negative--but I do think that some of what you said wasn't entirely factual. People don't really overestimate themselves if they're always honest with themselves. I know I tend to have a false bravado about me because I'm really a sensitive person, so maybe that's really what it is? I don't know. The smartest people I know all doubt themselves. I think that stupid people don't doubt themselves--and that's probably part of why they're so stupid. But yeah,I am just talking about the extremes of people who are attractive--those within the top 1% (maybe like top 5%--that would make more sense), It's specific. I'm not talking about everyday attractive or everyday smart. I am talking about extremes, here. People who you don't come across every day. I'm talking about geniuses. Granted, In my case, I only have IQ range of 145 to 150-which is 10 less than what Einstein purportedly had, so it's not like I'm some mega genius or anything like that. There's PLENTY of people way smarter than I am.

But yes. Only 1% of people have IQ's greater than 140. Similarly, I would suspect that the same could be said for beauty.

And, minorities are always hated on. The majority rules, after all. It's sad.

a reply to: rukia

Hi Rukia, I've had a little deeper of a dig myself today, trying to find out what this "Halo Effect" is, and I think that you are right, there is something here, but I was right, editorialism is a big part of what is going on. Or rather, the study itself has been given a spin.

The Halo Effect can otherwise be described as the Tall, White Male Effect, or as I may prefer to call it, Ted Bundy Syndrome. After centuries, and generation of propaganda, we automatically look to the tall, white man for our moral and aspirational guidance, and will settle for that when given no other directional compass, or if intelligence is lacking perhaps. We more readily trust such people, and therefore they have come to define, in Western culture as the "best mates", this however is heavily contradicted on a number of levels. This is an ideal that we have been conditioned to believe by mass media and public relations, as well as, particularly during slavery, and other forms of "racial" segregation to reaffirm the "rightness" of the status quo. And, this continues on, the article in question being an excellent demonstration in point of this.

Take these two examples...from an article entitled the "Surprising Downsides of being dropdead gorgeous"...

At the most superficial level, beauty might be thought to carry a kind of halo around it; we see that someone has one good attribute, and by association, our subconscious assumes that they have been blessed in other departments too. “It’s one of many status characteristics that we can identify very early in our interactions,” says Walker.

In the workplace, your face really can be your fortune. When everything else is considered, more attractive people tend to earn more money and climb higher on the corporate ladder than people who are considered less pleasing on the eye. One study of MBA graduates found that there was about a 10 to 15% difference in earnings between the most and least attractive people in the group – which added up to about $230,000 (£150,000) over a lifetime. “You are being conferred advantages throughout your life, from your schooldays into the workplace,” says Walker.

www.bbc.com...

...and one from the NY Times...

In addition to whatever personal pleasure it gives you, being attractive also helps you earn more money, find a higher-earning spouse (and one who looks better, too!) and get better deals on mortgages. Each of these facts has been demonstrated over the past 20 years by many economists and other researchers. The effects are not small: one study showed that an American worker who was among the bottom one-seventh in looks, as assessed by randomly chosen observers, earned 10 to 15 percent less per year than a similar worker whose looks were assessed in the top one-third — a lifetime difference, in a typical case, of about $230,000.

www.nytimes.com...

It is not then that the more attractive person earns money, it is that uglier, shorter men earn less than their more attractive counterparts. Are the attractive people being rewarded, or the ugly people penalised? Evidently it is the latter in the eyes of the law, since the article goes on the indicate that there are lawyers willing to take such discrimation cases to court, as a class action, pro-bono.

What the studies, by cross referencing the various editorial spins on it, seem to say is that if you are short and ugly you are less likely to succeed than anyone deemed more attractive than you. That despite performing similarly, you will be marked down because of your ugliness. Not, as the vast majority of articles have chosen to suggest, that you will be marked up because you are more attractive.

Similarly, the first article, with it's focus on the downsides of beauty, states that attractive women are penalised based on looks only if they wish to climb the higher echelons...the tall, white man's domain, the only ones with a vested interest in maintaining the illusion that white and male are inherently better. They are the elite 1 % after all, even if they are not all that attractive, I should think the money and power can buy you into the minds of people so they believe that they can see a halo. Anyways, that isn't strictly true, what they found was that a more attractive woman will find it harder to enter any male dominated profession, a plainer or uglier woman of equal qualifications will win out, BUT, a man will trump both.

The NY Times suggests that "ugly" people should perhaps be compensated, by the state or otherwise for this inequity. Short, ugly people should be compensated more too. Short, ugly women even more so, and so on and so forth "down" the scale.

What is interesting though, in the case of men, is that short and ugly has all the best advantages in the evolutionary scheme of things or so more studies have found. Perhaps we should start more correctly seeing the mass media promoted "classes" of beauty as a reflection of our growing weakness as a species...

www.cracked.com...

a reply to: Anaana

Thank you! That was incredibly interesting. Yeah, it makes sense why people are sore at beautiful people. But it's sad. It all comes back down to jealousy. I really wish people could learn to accept themselves for who they are instead of wishing that they were somebody else all of the time. Looks don't make you any better than anyone else. Intelligence isn't everything.

Everyone has gifts and potential and something wonderful to contribute. Just because it's not conventional doesn't mean that it doesn't have great value. I wish that people didn't judge others based on looks. It really shouldn't matter.

a reply to: rukia

I don't know whether "sore" is the right word, much depends on individual circumstances and contexts. If you consider yourself, and every action that you take, as a relational dynamic, you can better understand your own role within a given situation. And, understanding the nature of competition within any given environment is key, a susceptibility to criticism for your beauty may be percieved as a weakness that can be exploited in a competitive environment to undermine you. As well as understanding the difference between what is earnt and what is given, and how that correlates to the priniciple of diminishing returns of respect.

No reason you should apologise for being you unless you have done something to apologise for. Nobody asks to be born, the where, how and what we look like has nothing to do with us either, we do get to decide "who" we are though and if you can live with yourself then you're doing a helluva a lot better than some.

a reply to: rukia

(THUD!) This thread has gone from mildly amusing, to comical, to sad...and now to utterly absurd!

I have taken the Terra Nova--I scored in the 99th to 100th percentile--meaning I am the 1%. Based on that score, I am qualified to be a member of Mensa (but I won't because Mensa means idiot in Spanish lol).

This article isn't about attractive people in general. It's about people who are highly symmetrical--those people are INCREDIBLY RARE. 1% of people.

Okay, so you're incredibly "rare". Got it!

I realize that I can't say any of this without sounding arrogant.

I am glad that I don't know what jealousy feels like to feel. I've only ever felt what it does when it's aimed at me.

No arrogance there, nope!!

The point of this thread is that we need to talk about this.

Okaaaaaay....

So there you have it!

I win, regardless.
...

I am right. The end.

Some discussion, whew!!!

But yeah,I am just talking about the extremes of people who are attractive--those within the top 1% (maybe like top 5%--that would make more sense), It's specific. I'm not talking about everyday attractive or everyday smart. I am talking about extremes, here. People who you don't come across every day. I'm talking about geniuses. Granted, In my case, I only have IQ range of 145 to 150-which is 10 less than what Einstein purportedly had, so it's not like I'm some mega genius or anything like that. There's PLENTY of people way smarter than I am.

But yes. Only 1% of people have IQ's greater than 140.

Okay, I'm sorry, but that's just over the top. This is either trolling, very juvenile and immature in the extreme, or just plain outright narcissistic beyond comprehension!

It defies imagination to me that someone who is so infinitely "beautiful", intelligent beyond comprehension and among the elite 1% of all of the human species on planet Earth (in their own mind) would feel the need to stoop low enough to come to a website such as ATS and impart such wisdom and unadulterated "perfectness" to us mere mortals.

We should all bow and be enlightened by your graciousness!

[extreme sarcasm] Got any good fishing stories???? [/extreme sarcasm]

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix
This amounts to "Bragplaining" When you complain about something for the sole purpose of brining it up in conversation to brag about it.

re; I really hate the leather seats in my new BMW, they are either too cold in the winter or too hot in the summer.

(from page 8)

This pretty well sums it up...for the rest of us 'dummies' with only an IQ on par with the likes of Albert Einstein and other lowly creatures of the same ilk.

edit...I would only add..."...when they really don't have a BMW to begin with, but rather likely a Yugo."

a reply to: rukia

will you stop going on about the terra nova test. it's not an iq test. it doesn't demonstrate how intelligent you are. the terra nova test is used for school children. to see their "achievement" (ie how much stuff on the school curriculum the testee has rote memorized) against a national average. if you did good on it all it means is that you've "gotten it" in regards to what the consensus of the national school boards think a student in your grade level and age should know or be able to understand.

it doesn't mean you have a high iq.....at all. my High school valedictorian had perfect grades, great Sat scores. she's literally so dumb she can't figure out how a door knob works. but she could rote memorize real good.

so throw out the "I have a genius level iq" talk until you can tell me your actual iq according to real iq test scores. not internet iq tests. not terra nova where to make every child's parents feel good they basically figure if you know what we expect you to know for your age and grade educationally...presto you're a genius! it makes parents happy and makes a BS test program popular and lucrative while taking pressure off the education system by making them look better. but its pretty fluf and not indicative of an actual iq. you're iq May or may not be what you claim. but it sure as hell isnt whatever the terra nova people claim you're equivalent iq is. cause they don't even know. the terra nova isn't an iq test.

out of curiosity how old are you?

a reply to: Bluesma

So as not to answer a question with a question (at least initially), I would respond with this; from the very beginning this thread has been about the OP as can be evidenced in the 2nd and 3rd sentences of the 1st paragraph of the OP...

It makes sense to me that people are mean to beautiful people, but maybe that's just because that's been my personal experience. Well, people are both really nice and mean/jealous. It's difficult to make friends that don't end up stabbing you in the back. And that hurts, especially when it keeps happening. It's lonely, sometimes. But it's nice, too.

It continued in the 2nd sentence of the 2nd paragraph of the OP...

I'm not going to be offended by anything, and despite the downsides of being beautiful I wouldn't trade it for being ugly--if I'm being 100% completely honest.

However, despite saying she wasn't going to be offended by anything, by the 4th post on page 1 she was already getting defensive with any viewpoint other than her own...

Sounds like someone's jimmies are rustled.

Then 10 pages go by with nary a word...until this...

Lol so this appeared on my facebook newsfeed and I replied to the comments on ATS's page. And then deleted my comments because I'm a ninja like that and because that was enough. I could show you all my picture and then really be arrogant, but I won't because what I look like is utterly beside the point. My personal experiences, while valid and pertinent to this topic, are irrelevant in your attempts to 'debunk' this thread (or whatever you guys are trying to do. because no matter what you say, the truth is the truth.

and this...

Thank you to everyone who gets it. And to the negative nancies we've got going on en masse around here: whether you like it or not, what I said was true. Intelligence correlates with beauty.

and subsequently this...

What people think of me doesn't matter, because the truth is the truth--and nothing anyone says is going to change it.

...and even further to one of my previous points about the princess syndrome...

I was lucky that my mom told me the truth, growing up. And what to expect. I mainly wanted to talk about it for perhaps someone else in my position who might not know these things and might instead blame themselves and think that something's wrong with them when it's not.

and...

And to help younger people who might be in a similar position to mine understand the truth--especially if their parents didn't tell them like mine did.

Then there's this part which is quite disturbing actually when taken in the context of everything which she's said up to this point in the thread...

They don't want to admit that they're the ones who fall victim to jealousy and lash out. They don't want to see it. So they deny it. And that helps them not feel so sad. It's awful. They're hurting themselves. People need to be proud of who they are. Regardless of what they look like or what they can do. And be happy for others who have nice things--things that they may want and cannot have for whatever reason. But that's not going to happen. Because people don't work that way. The truth hurts, unfortunately. I don't think that anything can really be done about it other than talk about it. Which is why I'm doing this, I guess.

So in essence what we're seeing in the above post is 'they' and 'others' refers to someone other than her, but 'why can't people just be happy for me when they have no hope of being as beautiful as I am or having as many nice things as I have? Because the truth hurts????

And then two posts below this it devolves into something even more disturbing...

...but then they go on the ugly person's wall and lie and call them beautiful and gorgeous. It's screwed up.

Why lie? To make people feel better? That's messed up and wrong. It just ends up inflating their heads because they're NOT beautiful. You can't inflate a beautiful person's head because beauty is something we take for granted. it's not something we desire because we have it. we don't want more of it. if you call us beautiful, it's just like oh, thank you that's nice of you. and then that's it. it's not like I don't have eyes.

So, I guess people should just call unattractive people "ugly", straight up, because there's no use in telling the OP she's beautiful...because she clearly already knows this (boy-oh-boy does she ever!) No, what people really need to be doing is telling the ugly people they're UGLY so she can feel good about us not lying to them, which is..."messed up and wrong".

Seems to me there's a lot which is 'messed up and wrong' in this thread, but not where the OP would like to have everyone think.

So, I would ask you; now that you've read the most recent posts (by the OP) on this thread...do you still feel the same way?

Frankly, at this point, I'm having a hard time even believing this thread is for real.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: rukia



out of curiosity how old are you?

You know what?

That's probably the most germane question in this whole thread so far.

high iq is not correlated to beauty. for instance my real iq crushes the OPs terra nova "projected" iq . sadly i am short, and ugly. i think the only ones that honestly believe that beauty and symmetry equals high iq are good looking people trying to fool themselves or trying to explain to themselves why things go so smoothly for them in life (in general ) as it must be because they are geniuses and not coddled and kept.

like I say I've seen exceptions to the rule. but I doubt in this thread this is the case.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
I've stoped talking to him because he's pathetic and I don't have time for that sort but those who have checked in with him have discovered he's exchanging the last of his looks to live at someold lady's house er bed. thats gotta be rough. but at the same time i dont pitty him. i tried in his 20s teaching him a trade, so hed have some sort of applicable life n job skills but he threw that away cause it was easy to leverage his looks for a free ride at the time.

That type of person will always need help, you can't teach them life skills if they been pampered all their life. It's starts from childhood for most of them, parents, family and friends treat them as if they are special.

It's no surprise when they get older they loose respect from family, friends and not having a job.... You can't teach that person a trade and expect for them to hold it on his own, it will never happen.... society created his mental disability, and when family and friends turn their back they suffer from depression.

You know what's pathetic, people don't realize they created that beautiful monster.....

originally posted by: rukiaIn fact, I doubt my abilities all of the time. I have an eating disorder. I often hate myself, actually.

Finally. This is the most important thing that you have said. While I'm sorry you are hurting, creating a thread to tell everyone how great you are while attempting to disguise it as an analysis of how attractive people are treated badly is disingenuous and most people here can see it for what it is; a construct to stroke your ego.

originally posted by: rukiaAnd because I really don't care what anyone thinks of me. I am glad that I don't know what jealousy feels like to feel.

I don't think that these two things are true at all. In fact, I think that most of your existence and sense of self is defined by what others think of you. This is why you are so preoccupied with physical appearance and making sure that everyone knows that you are very, very special in general. Further, it is why any dissent to these assertions is met with condescending denial and passive aggressive attacks. You don't really know who you are, but you are desperate to convince others that you do and also that the outer beauty reflects the inner beauty. This is a façade designed to maintain your ego, which is why you are so deeply unhappy.

originally posted by: rukia You need to accept yourself for who you are and be happy with it.

Yes.

originally posted by: rukia The point of this thread is that we need to talk about this.

No. The point of this thread was to talk about you and validate this view that you would like to have of yourself.

originally posted by: rukiaThis is anything but superficial and if you think it's superficial, then I'm going to call transference on that B.S.

I'm sure that it doesn't feel superficial to you because so much of your identity is wrapped up in it, and maybe superficial is not exactly the right word, but self absorbed would certainly fit. You're not really thinking about anyone but yourself here, this is not a Public Service for the Plight of Pretty People no matter how much you tell yourself that it is.

originally posted by: rukiaAnd why is getting old a bad thing? Beauty fades, dumb is forever, as Judge Judy always says! I can't wait till I get old, I'm going to be such a funny and obnoxious old person!

I think that on some level you know that when your beauty fades you are headed (at the very least), toward an existential crisis.

If people treat you in a way that is nasty it has far more to do with how you are treating them then how jealous they are because you are pretty. Most of what you receive is a reflection of what you are putting out there, and what you are putting out there (at least in this thread) is very, very ugly indeed.

In my opinion (just owning that it is only an opinion), you are a narcissist. I hope that you are just in situation where this is a survival mechanism and you can leave it behind at some point. If this tendency is not a product of environment then there may be no fixing it, and I'm sorry for that because that self-perpetuating cycle of crippling self-doubt and surface compensating grandiosity is excruciatingly painful for the person experiencing it and those that love them. Things probably won't get better for you, because you will never be accountable for your own actions.

Now it is probably good sense to take some strangers on-line psycho-analysis and put it in the garbage bin, but I hope some of this sinks in. You are so trapped in a distorted fun-house maze of cognitive dissonance that you will likely never see the world, or yourself for what it and you truly are, and I don't think you will ever be content or happy. It's a shame. Good luck to you though, for what it is worth.

a reply to: redhorse

Very well said, and, I fear, much more succinct than my posts to the same.

In doing some collateral research (here on ATS), I believe you hit the nail squarely on the head.

edit...BTW, this is essentially what I was attempting to say back on pg. 14 of this thread.

originally posted by: Bluesma
Even so, it can still become a problem for you, when we get to these people who have been treated unfairly, and can do actual harm to yourself, your possessions, your career, your relations...

There will also often be the assumption that your choice to deny what happened is a choice to USE and profit off that effect- not that it is coming form a belief system that "if I ignore it, it won't happen anymore".

The only action I have found that solves this dilemma is, in such circumstances, to speak up and insist on justice, immediately. To do so, you'd have to acknowledge that what the coworker saw really happened, be aware of such subtle unfairness that happens without anyone making an effort or being aware they are doing it.

Having read the above, I was somewhat surprised to then read this...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: Bluesma
I am pleasantly surprised. Turns out that all the people who applied are young women, who either have young children, or might choose to soon.

So my age is a really big factor for him, plus it is not full time, and means being available for emergencies whenever they happen. I live close to the office as well.

So it is rather unconventional for him to consider me over these people with diplomas, a sort of lucky combination of elements, for which I am thankful!!!

At what point do you intend to stand up for this injustice?

originally posted by: Bluesma
I am getting old (late forties) so this makes me want to say to younger women- you just never know! Sometimes you are busy raising your family and all, afraid the train has passed you by, but that is not necessarily true!
You still might be able to do work you dream of, or learn a skill you always dreamed of doing!
Just keep busy, going forth into new things all the time, and see what comes together later as a result.

Yes, don't bother working hard and making sacrifices for your education, because as long as we tolerate it, there will always be employers who are permitted to by-pass recruitment laws aimed at protecting women, and children, by older women willing to accept that discrimination as long as it benefits them.

a reply to: GoShredAK

Well thats good. I am of the opinion that many people walking this planet could use a good punch to the face. It builds character you know.

But anyways. I was at one point thinking to getting into MMA, but my mind on a daily basis is all over the place at a thousand things, so it would be hard to concentrate on one thing. And in something like MMA or any other combat sport out there your either present all the time or you don't bother. As a job it just takes to much effort both mentally and physically.

Basically its not something you can do sort of, or part time. You either go in all the way, or don't bother at all. But saying that, its good to see people driving for hours just to get punched in the face, it builds charter, I am of the believe that there are far to many people out there who just have not been punched in the face before and so have no character. We should help those people by using there faces as a canvas for our fists to paint a masterpiece of reds on red. Your opponent that night was a bit cocky, he did have have you outmatched in the striking game and knew it, his hands were down most of the time, you should have taken him down and pounded on his face like a drum, you know to better help him build character.

What Im getting at is knowing I had the cards stacked against me I should have backed out but that was not an option, I was going to go in there and get my butt handed to me before I chickened out. I should have been petrified but instead I felt oddly calm.

You ever watch or seen any of the fighters? Or in any other sport for instance. They have and almost religious fever in there believe that they can win. Even though it is unfounded a lot of times there is a reason for that. The reason being that if you fight with any doubt the chances are that you will defeat yourself before the opponent would, so it is better to believe unconditionally in something you know is not true then to question yourself. Its like that in any sport really, I mean what do you think all those huddles and chest bumping are about in football? Its not about winning or confidence its about increasing the frenzy which will better focus all that attention on a single goal, which will slightly help in achieving it.

So ya, unfounded believe will take you farther in some things the questioning yourself would.

If you went in there thinking you were going to get your but handed to you but would do it anyways, that is the wrong attitude to have, even in the attempt to prove something to yourself your handicapping yourself and putting yourself in a box with a door to which you will always eye as a way out. Even today if you watch any bouts in MMA or any sport they always talk the talk even though it rarely ever delivers, well that is why, its because even in unconditionally believing something which you do not truly believe you will get farther then in carrying those doubts around.

Basically what I am saying is. You went in there to prove something to yourself even though you would end up getting your ass kicked. And you have achieved that. Your opponent that night went in there to unconditionally win the fight with the tools at his disposal ie striking, and he achieved that. Now if you went in there not to prove anything but to win and beat this guy to a pulp, the results in that the end result would have been much different would have exponentially increased.

You dig what I am saying? A lot of people think combat or any fight is all physical, when in fact most fights really are long settled before the opponents get in the ring. So in effect you both got what you wanted.

When in the cage I went blank, to this day it feels like a dream. I was presented with so many reasons to back out, even my mouth guard felt very sharp and uncomfortable on the inside of my cheeks I had to cut it down so my mouth didn't blow up when I got hit. Though I lost for me it was a victory because I proved myself I had it in me to step up, and I learned I could take a few punches right on the nose and keep fighting.

Most anything were there is physical confrontation is a blank space in time and space. That is the whole point of training in some ways, all those repetitions are there to better and more accurately help you fill in that blank space with sequential meaning to a direct result.

But anyways dude. Its cool stuff. People need to get out of there norm and habits once in a while and try something new. Though realistically I should probably listen to my own advice once in a while. However I have no time for any of that.