The Downsides of Being Beautiful

There's this line from a manga I've read that goes as follows:

"You know... You'd be hot if you weren't a gorilla on the inside..."

a reply to: EternalSolace

I agree, the importance should be placed on the soul inside the body, instead of the body itself. I did a lot of photo shoots for Paul Mitchell and I met some seriously shallow people. They literally referred to themselves as "The Beautiful People". They should have called themselves "The Ugly People Masquerading As Beautiful People", because that's precisely what they were.

Things now are at an extreme that I never anticipated--I mean, girls are killiing themselves trying to be skinny, getting plastic surgery to change their entire appearance ffs-- but when I was a little girl, I was continuously being told that I had to "be a lady" and always look pretty or no man would ever want to marry me. My response was, "what if I don't want to get married?". I hated "girly" things. I was a tomboy...still am to this day. And I don't care what I look like any more now than I did then, either.

But I know women who won't leave their house without slapping on ten tons of war paint and having their hair perfectly coiffed; one of them is a relative, and it is the silliest thing because she is mortified at the idea of seeing someone she knows out in public with no makeup. Really??? Why the hell does it matter?? But that's what girls are told. It's psychological conditioning.

It makes me so sad when I read stories of girls with their whole lives ahead of them, committing suicide because they simply weren't pretty enough or skinny enough...society has definitely taken a moral and ethical nosedive when things like that become commonplace. I could go on and on, but yes, it is naive for people to think that their physical appearance has no bearing on their interactions with others. Everywhere we go, every day, we are judged by our appearance. It happens all the time; in job interviews, social situations, work situations...no one seems to care about the caliber of the individual beneath the packaging.

I honestly think that's why the divorce rate is so high; people fall in love with the way someone looks and pretty soon they realize that they actually can't stand the person because their inner person doesn't match their outer person...or because of the unrealistic expectation that was based on fantasy. I know a dude who divorced his wife because she got fat and refused to undergo gastric bypass surgery..."fat" to him was 20lbs. He literally wanted his spouse to undergo one of the most dangerous surgeries in history because she had gained 20 lbs while pregnant and had not lost the weight yet. Charming, yeah?

a reply to: grainofsand

a reply to: tigertatzen Lol, an intellectual connection is the least of my considerations when it comes to sexual attraction.

I guess i'm just more of a cerebral person in that regard. If I have to teach someone basic shapes and colors, they could look like a Greek god and I'd still bid them Adieu because intelligence and a sharp wit are two things that I find very sexy. Looks will fade. If I want to be with someone when sex is a bad idea due to old age, i want to still be able to have a good conversation with my significant other...I hit the jackpot because my man is physically stunning and he is a deeply intellectual person and extremely intelligent too. But what made me fall for him was not his looks, although that is initially what got my attention. It was his sharp wit and dry humor and intelligence that hooked me.

Now if you're just talking about casual sex or something, intellect wouldn't seem to really be a concern in that case.

we are all 1337 in our own way!

/

a reply to: Bluesma

I think that you're definitely on to something there. And I agree that despite someone being jealous of a friend/family member/aquaintence's physical attributes, they still like the person. It's like me being jealous of my friend's stunning hair...do I wish I had it instead of her? Hell yes. Do I hate her for it? Of course not.

But I do know for a fact that many times, people perceive their more glamorous friends as being "perfect" in every aspect of their lives and judge them harshly when they fall short. I myself am guilty of assuming; I have a friend whom I've known since kindergarten, and when we were teenagers she was allowed to wear makeup and I was not. She wore awesome clothes and had a glamorous style. My mother said it was "slutty" and refused to let me wear things like she did. But I was so jealous of her; to me she was the epitome of perfection, and I began to believe that her life was perfect, too. And all through my adulthood, we've kept in touch.

I was stunned to find out that she had battled depression and drug abuse and alcoholism, that she had attempted suicide numerous times...no one would have ever thought that, because her outward appearance was one of mystery and glamour and intrigue...but inside, she was in turmoil. I put her on a pedestal that she did not ask for, and in the process missed obvious signs that she was not even remotely ok, much less perfect. And it was out of pure jealousy and blind assumption.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

It's a reverse psychology of sorts..."I am among the beautiful people, but I can identify with you lowly people and I share your pain (of not being like me)." This, in an attempt to gain concurrence with their own elevated view of themselves. They are, in essence, creating an audience for themselves where one does not exist.

And that is exactly how the OP reads to a lot of people. I can see it myself, now that she's shown her true colors with catty personal attacks. It is attention seeking for the purpose of self-validation and the accompanying article is a means by which to justify it by pretending that it was the actual intended topic. Despite that, the topic is actually fascinating and it is extremely entertaining to see some of the responses...this is a very eye-opening conversation.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

Well ya! Its obvious a joke. Sometimes people take jokes serious, it happens all the time. I can say I have never seen any of these beautiful people your talking about, oh I seen some good looking people, but online, offline, in media, in everything. Nope not a one, just peoples of different shapes and sizes and makes etc etc. So as you can see I am quite curious on just what this thing you all are talking about looks like and is and all of that. And all i get from the op is a bunch of writing on a bunch of enclosed theories. Ya! I call shenanigans on that. I think you all are all deluded. It is good, people need hobbies and such. But please keep your delusions to a minimum. You may continue on with your case somewere else dude. But sorry I just don't see it. Which leads me to come to the conclusion that you all are trolling or this is a joke, or a hoax.

I am not sure what you think makes this a joke or a hoax. It is a fact that there is a symmetry to certain people's faces that measures out to Phi, or the Golden Ratio, including my own. Phi is considered the number of symmetry, and it can be found in many things in nature, including the human skeleton. So no, that is not a hoax. It is real, it exists.

It is also a fact that numerous studies have been conducted, one of the most famous being the study of how infants reacted to people with "perfect" facial measurements as opposed to people with more asymmetrical features, and it is also a fact that the infants spent longer periods of time looking at the symmetrical faces and returned their gazes to those faces markedly more frequently than those with asymmetrical faces. So, no hoax there.

It is also not a joke, by any stretch of the imagination. Such importance is being placed, especially via social media, as someone already mentioned, on some preconceived standard for what is beautiful and what is not that people are literally killing themselves trying to be someone they are not. And that is not a hoax either.

As far as your assertion that you cannot understand the concept of one thing looking more visually appealing than another, I'm sorry, but that's a great big "nope". Everyone on this planet with a functioning brain has preferences. Food, colors, scents, textures...and physical traits in a potential mate, to name a few. You cannot tell me that you are unaware that people typically consider, say, Claudia Schiffer to be more beautiful than Rosie O'Donnell. No one can walk this earth and actually be that clueless.

But we're talking about facial skeletal structure being a deciding factor in regard to what is or is not the standard for beauty and what we as human beings are more drawn to the closer those faces are to possessing that symmetry. And how people who have that symmetry are intrinsically treated differently than those who do not. That is a valid topic of discussion, backed by decades of sound research, so no, it does not belong in the hoax bin.

a reply to: Bluesma
Well OK. But what does any of that have to do with what people are talking about in this thread, which is some sort of magical symmetry beauty or whatever. And yes its a none issues, most especially considering that the people who are all over this are females, its highly exaggerated nuances. At best somebody thinks they look good. But beautiful, well anybody take on that.

I am quite sure they will get over it and move on, same like the other who have done the same before them generation after generation going back down to when primates first created these mating custums and games, the examples you listed are trivial at best, and are likely do to oversensitivity and likely bought on by having to much time on there hands and no actual real issues in there life's.

But in all, Its just something people do and go through, I could list why, but that would be pointless. Ultimately its like I said, somebody wants attention.

So ya! You see, this is a none issue, it cant get any more none issue, the cost of apples in Africa would be more of an issue then this.

a reply to: tigertatzen
Listen your obviously exaggerating. It happens, its actually quite common thing.

Look at the last link I posted, all those people had there faces made symmetrical by a computer program both left and right sides. Which ones you would consider more "beautiful" would purely be based on the observer.

It is also a fact that numerous studies have been conducted, one of the most famous being the study of how infants reacted to people with "perfect" facial measurements as opposed to people with more asymmetrical features, and it is also a fact that the infants spent longer periods of time looking at the symmetrical faces and returned their gazes to those faces markedly more frequently than those with asymmetrical faces. So, no hoax there.

I think your confused. Infants also look at toys with wonder, they also look at a bunch of other things, so I would have to say how was this study done, what were the confines and rules and regulations. As for symmetry, well I do believe all of that has more to do with pretty faces then symmetry, if all our faces were perfectly symmetrical we would look really ridiculous. What your talking about is the evolutionary predisposition in any group of people to any given context of characteristics in peoples faces which are considered good looking, not even beautiful that word may mean something else entirely but good looking, basically what people consider for various reason to be somebody who is easy on the eyes.

I see you do not even grasp the concept, if your so interested in this you should likely dig a bit deeper then the surface of such shallow understandings. But that may be a challenge for you, likely even an impossibility. What your actually saying is that the effect is the cause, when generally even in this the thing you call beauty the cause ie evolution and a bunch of other factors lead to an effect that effect being what people consider to be beautiful or good looking.

Its almost like your trying to go backwards at it, but your offering a statement, to which I can only nod my head and say...OK, OK, so what of it?

It is also not a joke, by any stretch of the imagination. Such importance is being placed, especially via social media, as someone already mentioned, on some preconceived standard for what is beautiful and what is not that people are literally killing themselves trying to be someone they are not. And that is not a hoax either.

It is a joke, all of social media is a joke as well. The fact that people would go to such lengths for a joke does not mean or discount it as not being a joke. It just means people should not take jokes to seriously or to such lengths. Also hoaxes have been known to be perpetrated and be believed on massive scales before by all kinds of people for quite literally generations and generations. This is not new, nor does it discount it from being a hoax.

As far as your assertion that you cannot understand the concept of one thing looking more visually appealing than another, I'm sorry, but that's a great big "nope".

What I said is I never seen this beautiful thing you all are clamoring about, I have seen some good looking people but I would not call them beautiful. # I dont even know them.

Everyone on this planet with a functioning brain has preferences. Food, colors, scents, textures...and physical traits in a potential mate, to name a few. You cannot tell me that you are unaware that people typically consider, say, Claudia Schiffer to be more beautiful than Rosie O'Donnell. No one can walk this earth and actually be that clueless.

I did not know who Claudia Schiffer was, so I googled her. If I were trying to be nice I would say she is not bad looking, but what of it? In fact I cant even say who is better looking between the two, but I would give the edge to Schiffer merely due to that it looks she is in better shape, or at least from the pictures I seen. There were hundreds but I clicked on the first ones that came out, which was pics of her now. She does look a bit better in her younger pictures though.

OK it is decided Claudia Shiffer has a slight advantage in being better looking then Rosie O'Donnell. Though I am sure that now if Rosie lost some weight and got less crazy she would give Shiffer a run for her money in the looks department then and now.

But we're talking about facial skeletal structure being a deciding factor in regard to what is or is not the standard for beauty and what we as human beings are more drawn to the closer those faces are to possessing that symmetry. And how people who have that symmetry are intrinsically treated differently than those who do not. That is a valid topic of discussion, backed by decades of sound research, so no, it does not belong in the hoax bin.

Must be just me then, or are we going by the world in what the magazines say. I mean how much makeup would it require to turn even somebody like Rosie into a stunner. This is a haox because most of what you put fort as claim of beauty is the opinion of people and not even that a select group of people.

Lets make this more interesting. Which ones of these dudes do you think is more beautiful? And just to make it more easier for you and more on your level, I have selected a video full of glitz and glamour and today's Coup de gras of beautifying graces something so sublime as to be perfect that something being known as Photoshop skills. Since you know were going to be talking about people in pictures and all that, not that far off then arguing which pokemon is better with 9 yr olds. Bet this gives plenty of people the willies. Ah! context, plenty of off-context arguments here, so I thought I would give my own as well.

I am reading a couple books on the subject now, my interest stirred by this conversation.

One basic thing is standing out to me as an obstacle I've had in my exchanges here-

The "physical attractiveness phenomenon" as it is sometimes called, seems to be very real, and though it might be nurtured and encouraged as we develop, it seems we are born with it. The research is so extensive, I wouldn't even know where to start in linking, I've become overwhelmed by it at this point.
The reasons for it, why and how this behavior evolved, is all up for hypothesizing, but the reality, at this point seems painfully clear.

The thing I was not seeing/taking into account in some areas of discussion is that there are ways my basic premises about the world have mutated to become more french, and I have lost touch with so many of my american based world views.
That makes a difference.

I could not understand the point someone else was making to me about how this phenomenon should not be highlighted, especially in front of young people, to avoid increasing it. It should perhaps be sort of swept under the carpet discretely while we focus on the individual will and choices instead. That made no sense to me.

But I am reading a book on this and it delved into some cultural effects and that, because the US has a highly competative culture in general, such information would be more likely to stir young people to try to use it, to get ahead.
They become more focused on the importance of their looks- which obviously is not what most of us would like to encourage.

(a salute to Anaanna, I get it now and see the validity of your argument).

I was coming from the french cultural view- in which there is less competative drive between individuals.

There is a base of social security which makes them less driven and ambitious (you won't become homeless if you lose your job tomorrow) and they have a higher sense of social power and responsibility as a collective force.
Such information makes them attempt to level out the playing field more (the more attractive making effort not to increase the effect with make up and clothing, and all people being on the look out and ready to protest at the slightest sign of inequality).

It is, in fact, the "socialist" mindset, as most americans call it, that I was coming from without realizing it.

Most americans cannot afford the luxury of choosing ethical issues over survival or upward advancement.
Here? People stay in the same lower level job for life, because they have great job security, and they don't base their self image on their career status. That makes a difference in how they respond to knowledge of this phenomenon.
Also, their sense of equality (instead of individual merit) makes it an easy assumption that anyone who regularly benefits from such advantages over others around must , systematically feel terrible guilt and shame about it.
So it doesn't need to be spelled out that the simple fact that this phenomenon exists means it is uncomfortable and problematic when people find themselves being treated that way.

I've been here exactly half of my life now, and apparently that has influenced my mind more than I even thought.

Yeah it's weird, I've felt others jealousy and been treated poorly by many co workers because I'm pretty talented, stay in dang good shape, and am humble and kind to a fault.

It's odd to me because these same envious people feed off of me by copying me.

I've had some seriously negative miserable folks start listening to the same music I do, change their eating habits, try to learn what I'm good at, and after being around me say they need to workout and sometimes attempt to actually start working out.

These same jerks never acknowledge my positive influence, never are thankful, and still seem to look down on me.

It is kind of lame because I never brag, I like to spare people embarrassment, I restrain myself from saying hurtful things, yet still get treated like I'm the rude one.

I'm gaining confidence so I'm less of a pushover so I have snapped on these people before but it takes a lot of pushing to get me there. Whenever I do stick up for myself these people back track so freaking fast that I end up feeling bad.

My true friends and loved ones don't do this, they love me for who I am and encourage me. This is why I will always keep a small circle. So many fake, miserable, judgemental people out there.

Energy vampires.

It's upsetting, but like the OP I wouldn't change the talents I've earned through arduous perseverance, my athleticism, good looks, and unique compassion and patience for more acceptance or to be part of the majority.

Sometimes I wish I would call more people out, and I am cultivating that edge, but will still always be the quiet humble sleeper. One day someone is goin to cross the line and be on the recieving end of years of pent up frustration with being treated unfairly simply because my presence alone threatens certain people and makes them insecure.

This was probably the most conceded thing I've ever said or written but it's totally freaking true and not cool. I am learning to embrace it though, just need to own it and stick up for myself a bit more.

I'm sure I don't sound humble here, I know I am at heart, this is the first time vocalized this to anyone aside from those within my small circle.

There are downsides to being beautiful. As in attractiveness, a beautiful heart, and/or beautiful abilities. Very worth it
though.

Some examples, I'm a seasoned skateboarder, I've been rudely told to my face (even though I said nothing about skating) that skating seems stupid because you have to push yourself around so much and are risking injury.

I've been made fun of for enjoying reggae (even though I didn't even bring it up)

Out of nowhere people have said I wouldn't wanna fight mma because I don't need to get busted up looking like an idiot all the time (I love MMA, have competed and train pretty regularly but never really talk about it!)

I've been straight up made fun of for being serious about eating healthy and mostly vegan (again I just eat, never talk about it or look down on others!) "why do you always drink girly drinks?" The guy who said that was referring to kombucha, acai, aloe Vera, teas, stuff like that.

Oh my bad, I should be drinking a sprite so they're comfortable.

"People who work out are stupid unless your doing something with those muscles".......ummmm what!?

People get totally offensive, rude, and hurtful when they catch wind that I don't like to kill animals and keep meat consumption to a minimum......

I've been attacked verbally and called childish by many for being passionate about skateboarding, snowboarding, surfing and martial arts, even though I handle my priorities before indulging in my favorite sports......

The examples are many, this is but a fraction, however I will stop because I'm aware I've gone on quite a rant here already and most will just roll there eyes if they even care to read this entire post.

Anyway, if anyone does, does any of this make sense to anybody?







First one is a compilation of me skating, all from approximately a decade to five years ago, I'm still charging and loving it.
(ETA: never mind all of that footage was a little bit over a decade ago when I was 17ish, I am 29 now)

The next is embarrassing because I know I can fight better. I don't like excuses but must claim some here. I was under weight, detoxing (I've struggled with addiction) very nervous, and enamored by the cage, I forgot I'm currently better fighting on the ground but stupidly tried to kick box, also I forfeited after the last flurry cause I was not mentally prepared to get knocked out cold in front of friends and family. Also even though I absolutely could have continued he landed some clean shots which busted my right eye open and compromised my vision for about thirty seconds. (Just as the round ended) Since this was the first real fight ive ever been in it was a bit overwhelming. Can't wait for a shot at redemption.

Oh and behind that lion to the left, this same handsome dude can be seen sitting in the lineup waiting for a wave.

All that's missing is a solid picture of me soaring through the air on my snowboard.

Pics, it all happened

ETA- the post was changed a bit after I wrote so this quote wasn't in there anymore, and the tone of the post seems almost unrelated now

originally posted by: GoShredAK

Anyway, if anyone does, does any of this make sense to anybody?

Probably a lot of people share these types of experiences. But not only is it usually socially unacceptable to say this overtly, that taboo is probably increased in this thread by the previous accusations in it of those who do it here that they are mentally ill and seeking attention and approbation to lift their self image.

I'm betting not many will step forward to you at this point.

I think we can ALL relate and understand the choice of choosing to be liked or respected in these sorts of subtle implicit challenges that others pose before us. That's what the comments are - they are part of our social instincts and the way hierarchy is determined between individuals.

Choosing not to rise to the challenge is somewhat the same as not drawing your lines of defense for others to see, and they end up walking on your toes (metaphorically, but I've actually seen it be a literal effect) without even being aware they are doing it (hence the back pedalling if you do speak up). Repeatedly and often choosing the "nice" or passive response results in a lot of frustration and built up resentment.

This problem lies before all of us... but

The more attention your appearence attracts, the more often others will challenge you in this way
and force you to choose a response of submit or dominate.

Your response, the more it has to be enacted, becomes habit, becomes then more and more part of your self image ("who you are", rather than "what you are doing").

This is where attention becomes undesirable, especially for those who are sensitive by nature. As you described, if you object , the impact is very strong, people backtrack quickly and feel bad.... which makes us feel bad too... and we end up feeling like even we would have been happier if we said nothing and just took others walking on our toes without comment.

Whether a woman or a man, I wonder if this isn't part of how we develop personalities that are introverted or extroverted.
The extroverted always assume that EVERYONE loves to have all eyes on them when they enter the room Often the concept that some people hate that and are filled with anxiety and dread when that happens isn't even conceivable!

If you are considered especially good looking in your current environment, the more you will find people challenging you in social situations, and unfortunately, if you are a sensitive person, it can be horrible.

Since ones percieved beauty can be very relative to environment, I've found that one answer to this can be to try to put yourself in social gatherings where your attractiveness level is low - go where there are more beautiful people than yourself.
Be a small fish in a big pond. The pressure is less, and you get less attention, and less of those implicit passive aggressive challenges.

Of course, that means you have to honestly consider and judge your appearence in a realistic way, and in relation to others, which is another taboo you'll have to deal with in your own head first...

a reply to: Bluesma

Well shoot, ill throw that back In there, I deleted only that part while adding the videos because I thought it sounded silly.

I'm not quite intelligent nor articulate enough to express myself as well as I would like here on ATS but I try.

I'm dang sensitive, a poor communicator, a tad insecure myself, and my anxious mind is hands down my biggest obstacle, so it seems you hit the nail on the head with your reply. Though ill have to re read it a few times to fully comprehend like many of the lengthy and intelligent replies I've received.

If I comprehended what you wrote correctly it kind of sounds like you know me lol.

Anyway, I've talked far too much about myself on someone else's thread which was not really my intention. I just became Inspired to share after reading the OP and most of the thread because I was caught of guard at how well I feel I can relate. Hoping I helped validate where the OP is coming from.

I've felt these things and dealt with the related tensions and frustrations for quite some time but only now realized it. Writing all that down I actually learned some subtle things about myself I wasn't completely conscious of.

That quote seems a better fit for this post actually.......

Does any of that make sense?

In any case thanks for reading and taking the time to reply.

originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: boymonkey74
Sorry ladies but you lot can be right bitches..as soon as a new young support worker starts at my work the knives and little remarks come out.
I shake my head.
Us men can't be arse being jealous of each others looks (never met a more handsome and modest person as myself remember

).

Quite right again - My missus is doing her nut right now because I have to talk to a 24 year old girl who works as an Incident Manager at my work.

Yes, we've become mates and chat quite a bit outside of work via text etc, but nothing is going on. She lives in Manchester, so is some 250 miles from me and none of the messages between us have ever been saucy, but my lady is insanely jealous of her. We ended up having a barny yesterday (Xmas Day!) because we exchanged "Merry Christmas" messages.

Yes, this girl is rather hot and is some 9 years my junior but as I said, we're just mates. My missus has got it into her head that given half the chance I would leap into bed with her - my feelings aside, this other girl has not indicated any interest in me like that (I assume - I'm a bloke, I tend not to notice these things) so even if I wanted to, what's to say I could?

My missus seems to think I am God's gift to women and can have whomever I choose - it's nice she thinks that way, but I am reasonably certain it isn't true!

Stick a bunch of women in a room and they will start arguing over something (anything) pretty soon. They all compete with each other a lot more than men ever do. It's like that Family Guy episode where Stuey puts the guys into a VR sim to see if they were truly friends - eventually they do work it out after teaming up to solve what was going on... When he did it to the women, they didn't even try to find out each others names before descending into violence after 5 minutes...

Dude you obviously want to tap that, no matter how hard you try to convince yourself and your significant other that you don't. Can you really blame her for not liking the situation.

a reply to: HardBoiled

Yeah that doesn't sound fair to ones woman, especially if she loves you.

Even if its harmless, it's still kinda cold to put your girl through those emotions. Outta respect for my wife, I make it clear I'm happily married and sure as hell wouldn't be texting a chick outside of work.

Probably ruffled feathers here but no worries this is just my individual opinion I feel compelled to post because to me infidelity, or even hinting towards it is beyond despicable.

originally posted by: Bluesma
Whether a woman or a man, I wonder if this isn't part of how we develop personalities that are introverted or extroverted.
The extroverted always assume that EVERYONE loves to have all eyes on them when they enter the room

Often the concept that some people hate that and are filled with anxiety and dread when that happens isn't even conceivable!

It is relatively easy to not get attention if you do not want it or to redirect it to where you do want it. It is a skill, admittedly, but as an extreme end introvert, I'm schizotypal or INFJ, depending upon whichever side of the sanity fence I am sitting on at the time, and consistently come out at 89% introverted with Myers Brigg, I verge on being almost completely Asocial, myself who finds even praise for the things that I have accomplished and am proud of, awkward and embarassing, it is a skill that I have found essential to keeping on the right side of the sanity fence. That other 11% of me though really likes other people, the rest of me does, I just find them overwhelming which has, in the past, led to anxiety and other issues which at very nearly 44 I pretty much have under control now, it doesn't go, I am simply able to demonstrate awareness of the signs and triggers that could set me off, and therefore act accordingly to remedy the situation.

I have worked in the service industry, in some form or other, all my life. Being busy, helping other people, making sure everyone else is comfortable is at the core of what I do personally and professionally, and I am very good at it. And, if you are useful, you're useful regardless of what you look like. Useful people are part of the furniture, no one wants to know how you got there and they will only notice you were there when you've gone.

I don't think about whether someone finds me attractive, I just don't consider it relevant unless it is someone I want to be physically intimate with, I do not need in the course of my day to day life, to put my face or body on display, so it seldom comes up because I am not inviting that kind of attention or in the kind of environment where that kind of "displaying" is appropriate, such as sales, etc.

Recognising that objectivity does not exist, is not to centre upon your own subjectiveness, but to be aware that you are both observer and observed, simultaneously. Recognising that a situation exists means recognising that you are a part of that situation, otherwise you wouldn't know that it exists. Our inherent subjectivity can only be alleviated by incorporating, and giving equal recognition, to the perspective of the whole spectrum of others, rather than simply seeking out those that reaffirm our own.

a reply to: GoShredAK

I know what you mean. Especially when we have the long standing habit of never talking about ourselves, and repressing our feelings and thoughts on this subject, we sort of have a whole can of worms inside that can slip out in long uncontrolled bursts when the opportunity arises on forums.

People will still judge you negatively, but since it's the internet, there's less risk.
I find it's not really that I want people to "look at me" as much as my heart is heavy with a need to express frustration that is built up. I often am so embarrassed I revealed myself I start a thread myself, then don't ever go back to it because I am embarrassed and I know people surely went straight into mudslinging.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

I think your confused. Infants also look at toys with wonder, they also look at a bunch of other things, so I would have to say how was this study done, what were the confines and rules and regulations. As for symmetry, well I do believe all of that has more to do with pretty faces then symmetry, if all our faces were perfectly symmetrical we would look really ridiculous. What your talking about is the evolutionary predisposition in any group of people to any given context of characteristics in peoples faces which are considered good looking, not even beautiful that word may mean something else entirely but good looking, basically what people consider for various reason to be somebody who is easy on the eyes. I see you do not even grasp the concept, if your so interested in this you should likely dig a bit deeper then the surface of such shallow understandings. But that may be a challenge for you, likely even an impossibility. What your actually saying is that the effect is the cause, when generally even in this the thing you call beauty the cause ie evolution and a bunch of other factors lead to an effect that effect being what people consider to be beautiful or good looking. Its almost like your trying to go backwards at it, but your offering a statement, to which I can only nod my head and say...OK, OK, so what of it?

I think it is you who are confused, actually. No one said anything about faces being "perfectly symmetrical". We are talking about specific measurements of facial bones and how that relates to the popular concept of physical beauty, and also how much of that is conditioning versus innate human predisposition. These studies were specifically done with infants looking at people, not toys.

The studies were for a specific reason, which you seem to be unable to grasp. "Nature vs. Nurture" studies are done all the time to help explain the correlation to human psychology, sociology and development. We're not talking about infants looking at something "with wonder". We're talking about which facial structures they are most drawn to and how that relates to human bonding and social interaction. The beauty industry also uses that data. It is science. It has nothing to do with "perfect" facial features. It's about a specific measurement that is found in nature all over the planet, and that measurement is called The Golden Ratio.

I see you do not even grasp the concept, if your so interested in this you should likely dig a bit deeper then the surface of such shallow understandings. But that may be a challenge for you, likely even an impossibility.

That sounds suspiciously like a personal attack on my intelligence. Watch yourself with that.

I have anything but "shallow understandings" of the subject. I am an Aesthetician and studied this subject extensively throughout college. It has nothing to do whatsoever with my own personal measure of what is beautiful and what is not. Beauty does not equal perfection, in my opinion. However, scientists think it does, and this is what we are discussing. Stop making ridiculous assumptions about my personal world view, and stick to the actual subject at hand.

It is a joke, all of social media is a joke as well. The fact that people would go to such lengths for a joke does not mean or discount it as not being a joke. It just means people should not take jokes to seriously or to such lengths. Also hoaxes have been known to be perpetrated and be believed on massive scales before by all kinds of people for quite literally generations and generations. This is not new, nor does it discount it from being a hoax.

Double-blind, published clinical studies are not a hoax. They are real, and they have been real for a very long time. They are not a joke, either. They follow strict protocol and take their research very seriously.

This is a haox because most of what you put fort as claim of beauty is the opinion of people and not even that a select group of people.

Negative. It is not an opinion. It is scientific data published by researchers. There is no such thing as opinion in clinical studies. Data is recorded and then an extrapolation is published on the outcome of that data, as related to the subject. And yes, it is a selective group of people.

I did not know who Claudia Schiffer was, so I googled her. If I were trying to be nice I would say she is not bad looking, but what of it? In fact I cant even say who is better looking between the two, but I would give the edge to Schiffer merely due to that it looks she is in better shape, or at least from the pictures I seen. There were hundreds but I clicked on the first ones that came out, which was pics of her now. She does look a bit better in her younger pictures though. OK it is decided Claudia Shiffer has a slight advantage in being better looking then Rosie O'Donnell. Though I am sure that now if Rosie lost some weight and got less crazy she would give Shiffer a run for her money in the looks department then and now

You are proving my point for me. I do not personally consider Claudia Schiffer to be beautiful. However, she does have the facial measurements that we are discussing, and scientists believe that human affinity for those measurements causes people to think she's beautiful. But you are also contradicting your own argument. You stated that you do not see this "beauty" in people that the rest of the posters do., yet then you say this:

OK it is decided Claudia Shiffer has a slight advantage in being better looking then Rosie O'Donnell. Though I am sure that now if Rosie lost some weight and got less crazy she would give Shiffer a run for her money in the looks department then and now

Must be just me then, or are we going by the world in what the magazines say. I mean how much makeup would it require to turn even somebody like Rosie into a stunner.

You just admitted that the supermodel with the facial symmetry is better looking than the fat comedienne. So stop it with the whole "I don't understand what this beauty nonsense is", because you just proved that you were being untruthful. You even editorialized on Rosie's weight. People who don't care about physical appearance would not make a statement that someone would look better if they lost weight. So just stop.

Lets make this more interesting. Which ones of these dudes do you think is more beautiful? And just to make it more easier for you and more on your level, I have selected a video full of glitz and glamour and today's Coup de gras of beautifying graces something so sublime as to be perfect that something being known as Photoshop skills.

Once again, you are attacking me personally. You have no clue about what my "level" is, and what I consider to be the coup de gras of beauty. I don't find either "dude" to be beautiful. However, the first photo is of a woman, not a dude. And glitz and glamour matter not a whit to me. You can put a tuxedo on a pig, but it's still going to be a pig.

a reply to: GoShredAK
Ah dude haters going to hate. Though I do not think the majority of people are so judgmental on such issues, simply because a great majority of people have there lives to live day by day, and have little time or energy for anything else. I think the greater part of this phenomenon is that people are to static in there lives so tend to scratch that itch on others windowshoping become to big of a hobby you know.

Some hobbies are better and less of a pain then others you see. You know what they say the idle mind is the devils playground, same in some way would apply to more physical activities as one tends to lead to the other.

Cool vids.

And ya you should have taken that fight to the ground, you were pretty outclassed in the striking match, your punches were not following through, nor were you testing the waters you were somewhere in between in your striking, and somewhere in between is were you don't want to be, as in a fight, it is not a direct route. And in a fight the most direct route is the most effective.

Besides against people like that who have a reach and high advantage and also happen to fight long its best to get in there faces then end up staying in there range trying to out strike them. A pawer, the dude kept pawing the air with his left all the time, something to think on.

But anyways cools stuff dude, almost makes me want to go out and do something, maybe at least start hitting the gym again if nothing else. This hobby of mine correcting all these people who are wrong on the internet does take up to much time I see.

Beauty is but a curse
You attract bad people
Forgive them
And you will have a happy life

Think about this
Is there a down side to being ugly

No matter how bad you think your life is
There is someone out there worse off