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Students protest transgender invasion of privacy

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posted on Dec, 29 2015 @ 07:39 PM
link   

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix
That is not a crime where I am located, sorry try again. Also I have never asserted that I have changed my biological chromosomes. Not once never have I stated that, that would be silly.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

You stated that you "are a lady and use the ladies room". You're not a lady. And I never said "crime" I said rules. It is against the rules for a male to be in the ladies room. Done...outta here.

123143...I'm done talking to a brick wall. Have a nice day


Ahem.. there have been court cases backing up Phonix I am afraid. it is in fact DISCRMINATION to not let said person use th erestroom they Identify as. LEgally Shes correct. and youre wrong.

In Doe v. Regional School Unit, the Maine Supreme Court held that a transgender girl had a right to use the women’s bathroom at school because her psychological well-being and educational success depended on her transition. The school, in denying her access, had “treated [her] differently from other students solely because of her status as a transgender girl.” The court determined that this was a form of discrimination.

ALSO...

in Mathis v. Fountain-Fort Carson School District 8, Colorado’s Division of Civil Rights found that denying a transgender girl access to the women’s restroom at school was discrimination. They reasoned, “By not permitting the [student] to use the restroom with which she identities, as non-transgender students are permitted to do, the [school] treated the [student] less favorably than other students seeking the same service.” Furthermore, the court rejected the school’s defense—that the discriminatory policy was implemented to protect the transgender student from harassment—and observed that transgender students are in fact safest when a school does not single them out as different. Based on this finding, it is no longer acceptable to institute different kinds of bathroom rules for transgender and cisgender people.

In Cruzan v. Special School District #1, decided in 2002, a Minnesota federal appeals court ruled that it isn’t the job of the transgender person to do the accommodating. Employers need to offer an alternative to the complaining employee in these situations, such as an individual restroom.




posted on Dec, 29 2015 @ 07:43 PM
link   

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth
What about those people who consider themselves neither male nor female? Should we have a bathroom for them too?


Do you have a source article on these people? And their personal views on the situation?

Just curious.


Now, whether they want their own toilets or not I don't know, but one of them might do and I do not think we have asked them all. Better to be safe than sorry.


But, that is the question in this thread.

We already know there is a complexity and variety in the creation of a living being.


Transgenders have every right to consider themselves the opposite sex, they just don't have the right to tell everyone else how to think, and they don't have the right to make young people of the opposite sex feel uncomfortable by using their bathroom whilst they are in a state of undress in there.


Your ideas don't sound crazy, but we are an evolving species.

It was once believed seizures were being pocessed by the Devil. We evolved by science, knowledge, and understanding.

Same with homosexuality. Today we know its inherent. There is enough knowledge and scientific indicators to know "made that way" is real, even if we don't have exact answers. There is a lot of things science doesn't have exact answers for.

Transgender is real too. But, it's fairly new in coming out of the closet. The closet door is now ooen. And it's going to stay open. Which means Transgenders are now openly part of everyday society and situations like bathrooms has to be solved.

Society will just have to get used to it.


Lasting change comes about through agreement and ultimately the majority will decide how society adapts to cultural and natural changes . If the majority decides that transgender bathrooms should become a part of society, or that there are no differences in the sexes meaning we can all just mix as equals in all respects then that is what will happen. If the majority decide these are stupid ideas then they will be rejected.



We (USA) are a Republic, not a Democracy. By intent that minorities have same rights as majority.

I can tell you in my near 70 years Force is required for change. I've seen it many times.



The Constitution of your Repblic (which is a form of democracy) does indeed protect individual rights, as laid out in said constitution. It does not grant citizens the right to do whatever they want and cry individual liberty when it suits. It does not grant individuals the right to impinge on the rights of others just because it suits.

All change comes when the majority agrees - the fight is getting to that majority.


Well, you're wrong.

The Constitution grants equal treatment, even to the individual. And that is why Transgenders are winning the bathroom fight.

Change comes when law says it does.


Equal, yes. Greater, no. Back to the OP, what about the rights of the 6 young girls who are made to feel uncomfortable. You are badly mistaken about your rights if you think your individual rights supercede others'. America is not a country that panders to spoiled brats. I can see that there is a move that way, with stupid concepts like safe spaces and micro aggressions, but it will be reversed before the nonsense goes too far.


Is not greater, it's equal.

Same as bathrooms had, by law, to be accessible for the handicap.

The majority of non-handicap does not supersede equal rights/treatment for handicap.

Ick factor does not qualify as a legal argument.



Transgenders are not handicapped.
Morally the majority of people find it perfectly acceptible for a handicapped person to have a more easily accessible lavatory.


Im sorry but Some have said its has a MEntal part correct? Then yes they /we are handicapped because our bodies do not match our minds.



posted on Dec, 29 2015 @ 11:45 PM
link   

originally posted by: UKTruth
How can that argument hold up if a transgender has to prove they are one? Are we talking about ID cards or something? Or a third party vouching for them? What if a transgender is on the road and pops into a local rest stop and knows no-one there? Transgenders range from very feminine looking individuals where you couldnt tell they were a man to men who just like to wear dresses but still look like men. Is one more of a transgender than the other just because they might be more feminine looking? How exactly are you going to seperate the pervert in a dress from the real transgender (whether that real transgender is convincing as a woman or not) ? Are cops going to check every complaint? Are women going to ask for proof if they spot a guy in their bathroom?


Wow. This is kind of sad and I've been pondering for hours how to respond to this. So much unfounded fear and hypothetical scenarios with little basis in reality leaves me at a loss for words. In over 200 cities and 17 states that protect the rights of transgender people to use the bathroom that corresponds to their gender identity, there have been no reported incidences of rape or assault by men dressing up as women to access the women's washroom.



On the other hand, transgender people are at far greater risk and suffer more incidences of harassment and violence when using public bathrooms than non-transgender people by far. Imagine having to deal with this when you just have to pee.



Transgender people don't need a third bathroom. They don't need to tattoo a big red T on their forehead. They just need to be accepted for who they are even if they don't match the femininity and beauty standards of the imperialist patriarchy. I'm not speaking about you specifically but I find your comments both a little sexist and transphobic and you may want to think about this a little more, maybe do some research, maybe even talk to a transgender person?

I concede this a difficult subject with no clear and easy answers that don't strike fear and paranoia into the hearts and minds of people while also providing equitable and fair accommodations for transgender people.

Maybe this?



And don't forget this works both ways. I'd much rather share a bathroom with an early transition or poorly passing transgender person than this dude, who was born female.



Transgender people aren't handicapped. Oh, except by discrimination, prejudice and dehumanizing oppressive laws, ignorance about them, horrendous rates of suicide and rejection by society as a whole. Other than that, they're more than just transgender - they're whole people with families and friends that need to eat and live and work and laugh and love just like you and me and everybody else.


edit on 12/30/2015 by Freija because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 06:59 AM
link   
a reply to: Freija

You seem to be one of those professionally offended people. I say this because you don't seem to care about context at all. You read a post and jump into some rant to try and prove moral superiority, spending hrs working out how to articulate your moral outrage.

For the record, my questions were in response to another point from someone else - the questions marks are a dead give away. They are just some questions that need to be addressed when potentially changing a law. What are the rules? The idea of just 'choose your toliet' has a number of consequences.

Mens toilets are pretty nasty places actually with pee all over the floor, especially in pubs and bars. I'd actually like to use the womens toilets too as I am sure they would be cleaner. So, I guess you would agree it would be ok for me too. After all, why should I be discriminated against because I am a man. For that night I might decide to choose my gender identity as a woman, so it would be ok, right? Or would I have had to choose my gender identity before I went out that night , or earlier? Who is going to decide that my gender identity choice is legitimate that night? How will they decide?




edit on 30/12/2015 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 07:19 AM
link   
a reply to: UKTruth

Are you suggesting that you couldn't just walk in and use the women's toilet if you wanted to anyway?



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 07:21 AM
link   

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth
What about those people who consider themselves neither male nor female? Should we have a bathroom for them too?


Do you have a source article on these people? And their personal views on the situation?

Just curious.


Now, whether they want their own toilets or not I don't know, but one of them might do and I do not think we have asked them all. Better to be safe than sorry.


But, that is the question in this thread.

We already know there is a complexity and variety in the creation of a living being.


Transgenders have every right to consider themselves the opposite sex, they just don't have the right to tell everyone else how to think, and they don't have the right to make young people of the opposite sex feel uncomfortable by using their bathroom whilst they are in a state of undress in there.


Your ideas don't sound crazy, but we are an evolving species.

It was once believed seizures were being pocessed by the Devil. We evolved by science, knowledge, and understanding.

Same with homosexuality. Today we know its inherent. There is enough knowledge and scientific indicators to know "made that way" is real, even if we don't have exact answers. There is a lot of things science doesn't have exact answers for.

Transgender is real too. But, it's fairly new in coming out of the closet. The closet door is now ooen. And it's going to stay open. Which means Transgenders are now openly part of everyday society and situations like bathrooms has to be solved.

Society will just have to get used to it.


Lasting change comes about through agreement and ultimately the majority will decide how society adapts to cultural and natural changes . If the majority decides that transgender bathrooms should become a part of society, or that there are no differences in the sexes meaning we can all just mix as equals in all respects then that is what will happen. If the majority decide these are stupid ideas then they will be rejected.



We (USA) are a Republic, not a Democracy. By intent that minorities have same rights as majority.

I can tell you in my near 70 years Force is required for change. I've seen it many times.



The Constitution of your Repblic (which is a form of democracy) does indeed protect individual rights, as laid out in said constitution. It does not grant citizens the right to do whatever they want and cry individual liberty when it suits. It does not grant individuals the right to impinge on the rights of others just because it suits.

All change comes when the majority agrees - the fight is getting to that majority.


Well, you're wrong.

The Constitution grants equal treatment, even to the individual. And that is why Transgenders are winning the bathroom fight.

Change comes when law says it does.


Equal, yes. Greater, no. Back to the OP, what about the rights of the 6 young girls who are made to feel uncomfortable. You are badly mistaken about your rights if you think your individual rights supercede others'. America is not a country that panders to spoiled brats. I can see that there is a move that way, with stupid concepts like safe spaces and micro aggressions, but it will be reversed before the nonsense goes too far.


Is not greater, it's equal.

Same as bathrooms had, by law, to be accessible for the handicap.

The majority of non-handicap does not supersede equal rights/treatment for handicap.

Ick factor does not qualify as a legal argument.



Transgenders are not handicapped.
Morally the majority of people find it perfectly acceptible for a handicapped person to have a more easily accessible lavatory.


Yeah, I know -- it seems to be the generic response -- "handicap not the same thing".

But, when it comes to Equal Treatment, it is exactly the same thing.

How do I know? Because my mom was handicapped before the Disability Act that FORCED Equal Treatment.

If you think people accept and treat the disabled equally out of the kindness of their heart --- think again.



I will say again, transgenders are not handicapped. Doesn't matter how muuch you try and draw a parallel.
If they were it would be simple, transgenders could use the handicapped toilet.

The disability act was enacted by Congress - through a democratic process. It took 2 years from bill to law and the proper process was followed. You are misusing the term 'force'. I assume you are talking about raising public awareness through demonstrations and initiatives such as the Capitol Crawl. A minority spoke and the majority listened. The majority made the decision through a vote in Congress.

Unless you live in a communist or fascist country, its the people who decide through their representatives and the majority rules. The exceptions in the US would be executive order - which was not applied to the Disability Act of 1990.

Here is the link to explain the process:

en.wikipedia.org...#/media/File:Visualization-of-How-a-Bill-Becomes-a-Law_Mike-WIRTH.jpg







edit on 30/12/2015 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)

edit on 30/12/2015 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 07:27 AM
link   

fascist country


You mean, like the United States?
Well, oligarchy, technically.

There's this big hubub around transgender people using the toilet that their genitals don't match, but here's a small piece of information: Perverts/Rapists don't seem like the types who'd care too much about what toilet they were in to begin with.
It's the same argument people use against gun control. You're just screwing over law abiding citizens.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 07:30 AM
link   

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: UKTruth

Are you suggesting that you couldn't just walk in and use the women's toilet if you wanted to anyway?


That depends on where you are.

www.aclu.org...



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 07:34 AM
link   

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn

fascist country


You mean, like the United States?
Well, oligarchy, technically.

There's this big hubub around transgender people using the toilet that their genitals don't match, but here's a small piece of information: Perverts/Rapists don't seem like the types who'd care too much about what toilet they were in to begin with.
It's the same argument people use against gun control. You're just screwing over law abiding citizens.


The US is not a fascist country or an oligarchy.
The gun control debate and transgender washrooms are two very different debates.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 07:37 AM
link   

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth
What about those people who consider themselves neither male nor female? Should we have a bathroom for them too?


Do you have a source article on these people? And their personal views on the situation?

Just curious.


Now, whether they want their own toilets or not I don't know, but one of them might do and I do not think we have asked them all. Better to be safe than sorry.


But, that is the question in this thread.

We already know there is a complexity and variety in the creation of a living being.


Transgenders have every right to consider themselves the opposite sex, they just don't have the right to tell everyone else how to think, and they don't have the right to make young people of the opposite sex feel uncomfortable by using their bathroom whilst they are in a state of undress in there.


Your ideas don't sound crazy, but we are an evolving species.

It was once believed seizures were being pocessed by the Devil. We evolved by science, knowledge, and understanding.

Same with homosexuality. Today we know its inherent. There is enough knowledge and scientific indicators to know "made that way" is real, even if we don't have exact answers. There is a lot of things science doesn't have exact answers for.

Transgender is real too. But, it's fairly new in coming out of the closet. The closet door is now ooen. And it's going to stay open. Which means Transgenders are now openly part of everyday society and situations like bathrooms has to be solved.

Society will just have to get used to it.


Lasting change comes about through agreement and ultimately the majority will decide how society adapts to cultural and natural changes . If the majority decides that transgender bathrooms should become a part of society, or that there are no differences in the sexes meaning we can all just mix as equals in all respects then that is what will happen. If the majority decide these are stupid ideas then they will be rejected.



We (USA) are a Republic, not a Democracy. By intent that minorities have same rights as majority.

I can tell you in my near 70 years Force is required for change. I've seen it many times.



The Constitution of your Repblic (which is a form of democracy) does indeed protect individual rights, as laid out in said constitution. It does not grant citizens the right to do whatever they want and cry individual liberty when it suits. It does not grant individuals the right to impinge on the rights of others just because it suits.

All change comes when the majority agrees - the fight is getting to that majority.


Well, you're wrong.

The Constitution grants equal treatment, even to the individual. And that is why Transgenders are winning the bathroom fight.

Change comes when law says it does.


Equal, yes. Greater, no. Back to the OP, what about the rights of the 6 young girls who are made to feel uncomfortable. You are badly mistaken about your rights if you think your individual rights supercede others'. America is not a country that panders to spoiled brats. I can see that there is a move that way, with stupid concepts like safe spaces and micro aggressions, but it will be reversed before the nonsense goes too far.


Is not greater, it's equal.

Same as bathrooms had, by law, to be accessible for the handicap.

The majority of non-handicap does not supersede equal rights/treatment for handicap.

Ick factor does not qualify as a legal argument.



Transgenders are not handicapped.
Morally the majority of people find it perfectly acceptible for a handicapped person to have a more easily accessible lavatory.


Im sorry but Some have said its has a MEntal part correct? Then yes they /we are handicapped because our bodies do not match our minds.


Then you have a washroom - the handicapped one. Case closed.
In fact I must be handicapped too - my body doesn't match my mind. I think I am much younger and always saw myself in my mind as a bit taller then my 5ft 9. I will use the handicapped parking and washrooms from now on.
edit on 30/12/2015 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 09:49 AM
link   

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth
What about those people who consider themselves neither male nor female? Should we have a bathroom for them too?


Do you have a source article on these people? And their personal views on the situation?

Just curious.


Now, whether they want their own toilets or not I don't know, but one of them might do and I do not think we have asked them all. Better to be safe than sorry.


But, that is the question in this thread.

We already know there is a complexity and variety in the creation of a living being.


Transgenders have every right to consider themselves the opposite sex, they just don't have the right to tell everyone else how to think, and they don't have the right to make young people of the opposite sex feel uncomfortable by using their bathroom whilst they are in a state of undress in there.


Your ideas don't sound crazy, but we are an evolving species.

It was once believed seizures were being pocessed by the Devil. We evolved by science, knowledge, and understanding.

Same with homosexuality. Today we know its inherent. There is enough knowledge and scientific indicators to know "made that way" is real, even if we don't have exact answers. There is a lot of things science doesn't have exact answers for.

Transgender is real too. But, it's fairly new in coming out of the closet. The closet door is now ooen. And it's going to stay open. Which means Transgenders are now openly part of everyday society and situations like bathrooms has to be solved.

Society will just have to get used to it.


Lasting change comes about through agreement and ultimately the majority will decide how society adapts to cultural and natural changes . If the majority decides that transgender bathrooms should become a part of society, or that there are no differences in the sexes meaning we can all just mix as equals in all respects then that is what will happen. If the majority decide these are stupid ideas then they will be rejected.



We (USA) are a Republic, not a Democracy. By intent that minorities have same rights as majority.

I can tell you in my near 70 years Force is required for change. I've seen it many times.



The Constitution of your Repblic (which is a form of democracy) does indeed protect individual rights, as laid out in said constitution. It does not grant citizens the right to do whatever they want and cry individual liberty when it suits. It does not grant individuals the right to impinge on the rights of others just because it suits.

All change comes when the majority agrees - the fight is getting to that majority.


Well, you're wrong.

The Constitution grants equal treatment, even to the individual. And that is why Transgenders are winning the bathroom fight.

Change comes when law says it does.


Equal, yes. Greater, no. Back to the OP, what about the rights of the 6 young girls who are made to feel uncomfortable. You are badly mistaken about your rights if you think your individual rights supercede others'. America is not a country that panders to spoiled brats. I can see that there is a move that way, with stupid concepts like safe spaces and micro aggressions, but it will be reversed before the nonsense goes too far.


Is not greater, it's equal.

Same as bathrooms had, by law, to be accessible for the handicap.

The majority of non-handicap does not supersede equal rights/treatment for handicap.

Ick factor does not qualify as a legal argument.



Transgenders are not handicapped.
Morally the majority of people find it perfectly acceptible for a handicapped person to have a more easily accessible lavatory.


Im sorry but Some have said its has a MEntal part correct? Then yes they /we are handicapped because our bodies do not match our minds.


Then you have a washroom - the handicapped one. Case closed.
In fact I must be handicapped too - my body doesn't match my mind. I think I am much younger and always saw myself in my mind as a bit taller then my 5ft 9. I will use the handicapped parking and washrooms from now on.


Question have you been tested for Gender dysphoria? If not Until you do you arent handicapped by it. If you want to go by th e lawful standard. And unless youre a woman in a mans body or vice versa as well you arent in th e same boat.
Your problems arent gender based and you would have no problem going to a restroom. So your comparison is actually stupid.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 11:12 AM
link   

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth
What about those people who consider themselves neither male nor female? Should we have a bathroom for them too?


Do you have a source article on these people? And their personal views on the situation?

Just curious.


Now, whether they want their own toilets or not I don't know, but one of them might do and I do not think we have asked them all. Better to be safe than sorry.


But, that is the question in this thread.

We already know there is a complexity and variety in the creation of a living being.


Transgenders have every right to consider themselves the opposite sex, they just don't have the right to tell everyone else how to think, and they don't have the right to make young people of the opposite sex feel uncomfortable by using their bathroom whilst they are in a state of undress in there.


Your ideas don't sound crazy, but we are an evolving species.

It was once believed seizures were being pocessed by the Devil. We evolved by science, knowledge, and understanding.

Same with homosexuality. Today we know its inherent. There is enough knowledge and scientific indicators to know "made that way" is real, even if we don't have exact answers. There is a lot of things science doesn't have exact answers for.

Transgender is real too. But, it's fairly new in coming out of the closet. The closet door is now ooen. And it's going to stay open. Which means Transgenders are now openly part of everyday society and situations like bathrooms has to be solved.

Society will just have to get used to it.


Lasting change comes about through agreement and ultimately the majority will decide how society adapts to cultural and natural changes . If the majority decides that transgender bathrooms should become a part of society, or that there are no differences in the sexes meaning we can all just mix as equals in all respects then that is what will happen. If the majority decide these are stupid ideas then they will be rejected.



We (USA) are a Republic, not a Democracy. By intent that minorities have same rights as majority.

I can tell you in my near 70 years Force is required for change. I've seen it many times.



The Constitution of your Repblic (which is a form of democracy) does indeed protect individual rights, as laid out in said constitution. It does not grant citizens the right to do whatever they want and cry individual liberty when it suits. It does not grant individuals the right to impinge on the rights of others just because it suits.

All change comes when the majority agrees - the fight is getting to that majority.


Well, you're wrong.

The Constitution grants equal treatment, even to the individual. And that is why Transgenders are winning the bathroom fight.

Change comes when law says it does.


Equal, yes. Greater, no. Back to the OP, what about the rights of the 6 young girls who are made to feel uncomfortable. You are badly mistaken about your rights if you think your individual rights supercede others'. America is not a country that panders to spoiled brats. I can see that there is a move that way, with stupid concepts like safe spaces and micro aggressions, but it will be reversed before the nonsense goes too far.


Is not greater, it's equal.

Same as bathrooms had, by law, to be accessible for the handicap.

The majority of non-handicap does not supersede equal rights/treatment for handicap.

Ick factor does not qualify as a legal argument.



Transgenders are not handicapped.
Morally the majority of people find it perfectly acceptible for a handicapped person to have a more easily accessible lavatory.


Im sorry but Some have said its has a MEntal part correct? Then yes they /we are handicapped because our bodies do not match our minds.


Then you have a washroom - the handicapped one. Case closed.
In fact I must be handicapped too - my body doesn't match my mind. I think I am much younger and always saw myself in my mind as a bit taller then my 5ft 9. I will use the handicapped parking and washrooms from now on.


Question have you been tested for Gender dysphoria? If not Until you do you arent handicapped by it. If you want to go by th e lawful standard. And unless youre a woman in a mans body or vice versa as well you arent in th e same boat.
Your problems arent gender based and you would have no problem going to a restroom. So your comparison is actually stupid.


The comparison was intended to be stupid to emphasise how stupid I think it is to suggest transgenders are handicapped because 'our bodies don't fit our minds'.

As it stands right now the Americans With Disabilities Act excludes transgenders unless accompanied with physical disability or a sexual behaviour disorder. I hope current legal challenges to ammend the ADA fail, but if they don't then you will able to use the ADA to further your claims.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 11:29 AM
link   

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth
What about those people who consider themselves neither male nor female? Should we have a bathroom for them too?


Do you have a source article on these people? And their personal views on the situation?

Just curious.


Now, whether they want their own toilets or not I don't know, but one of them might do and I do not think we have asked them all. Better to be safe than sorry.


But, that is the question in this thread.

We already know there is a complexity and variety in the creation of a living being.


Transgenders have every right to consider themselves the opposite sex, they just don't have the right to tell everyone else how to think, and they don't have the right to make young people of the opposite sex feel uncomfortable by using their bathroom whilst they are in a state of undress in there.


Your ideas don't sound crazy, but we are an evolving species.

It was once believed seizures were being pocessed by the Devil. We evolved by science, knowledge, and understanding.

Same with homosexuality. Today we know its inherent. There is enough knowledge and scientific indicators to know "made that way" is real, even if we don't have exact answers. There is a lot of things science doesn't have exact answers for.

Transgender is real too. But, it's fairly new in coming out of the closet. The closet door is now ooen. And it's going to stay open. Which means Transgenders are now openly part of everyday society and situations like bathrooms has to be solved.

Society will just have to get used to it.


Lasting change comes about through agreement and ultimately the majority will decide how society adapts to cultural and natural changes . If the majority decides that transgender bathrooms should become a part of society, or that there are no differences in the sexes meaning we can all just mix as equals in all respects then that is what will happen. If the majority decide these are stupid ideas then they will be rejected.



We (USA) are a Republic, not a Democracy. By intent that minorities have same rights as majority.

I can tell you in my near 70 years Force is required for change. I've seen it many times.



The Constitution of your Repblic (which is a form of democracy) does indeed protect individual rights, as laid out in said constitution. It does not grant citizens the right to do whatever they want and cry individual liberty when it suits. It does not grant individuals the right to impinge on the rights of others just because it suits.

All change comes when the majority agrees - the fight is getting to that majority.


Well, you're wrong.

The Constitution grants equal treatment, even to the individual. And that is why Transgenders are winning the bathroom fight.

Change comes when law says it does.


Equal, yes. Greater, no. Back to the OP, what about the rights of the 6 young girls who are made to feel uncomfortable. You are badly mistaken about your rights if you think your individual rights supercede others'. America is not a country that panders to spoiled brats. I can see that there is a move that way, with stupid concepts like safe spaces and micro aggressions, but it will be reversed before the nonsense goes too far.


Is not greater, it's equal.

Same as bathrooms had, by law, to be accessible for the handicap.

The majority of non-handicap does not supersede equal rights/treatment for handicap.

Ick factor does not qualify as a legal argument.



Transgenders are not handicapped.
Morally the majority of people find it perfectly acceptible for a handicapped person to have a more easily accessible lavatory.


Yeah, I know -- it seems to be the generic response -- "handicap not the same thing".

But, when it comes to Equal Treatment, it is exactly the same thing.

How do I know? Because my mom was handicapped before the Disability Act that FORCED Equal Treatment.

If you think people accept and treat the disabled equally out of the kindness of their heart --- think again.



I will say again, transgenders are not handicapped. Doesn't matter how muuch you try and draw a parallel.
If they were it would be simple, transgenders could use the handicapped toilet.



Do you have a reading problem?

I NEVER said Transgenders were handicapped.

I said law had to FORCE Equal Treatment for a minority group.

If you have some delusion people were considerate of handicap, you would be wrong. Like voting. If your voting precinct had stairs and you were in a wheel chair, it was a big "F" U. Unless you could get someone to carry you and your wheelchair up the steps.

Only "Law by Force" changed that.

Don't bother going off on some tangent that this doesn't relate. Everyone can see right through it.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 11:36 AM
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originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
Perverts/Rapists don't seem like the types who'd care too much about what toilet they were in to begin with.



Perverts/Rapists look for isolation.

Maybe we should make it illegal for Transgenders to use stairwells, elevators, parking structures, etc.




posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 12:00 PM
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Well at least we agree then on that, transgenders are not handicapped.

I already explained, Annee, the process for The Disability Act becoming law. It was a majority decision in congress.
I will only agree that a minority raised the issue and forced this to be an issue leading to a Bill to enter the process of debate and enactment - beyond that the majority decided in favour after 2 years of discussion and ammendments to the initial bill.

The minority never force a decision, only discussion and agenda. If there was no support from the majority for the bill it would have never made it into law.

I am sorry if you think that the structure of passing laws in America is a tangent that people can' see through'. The current law and the challenges to those laws on both sides of this argument are veyr much related to the issue raised by these 6 young women.

Ultimately, I doubt very much the majority will support transgender bathrooms (although mainly because of costs). I do hope though that the majority get behind making it illegal for m2f transgenders to use womens bathrooms.






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posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 12:09 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
Perverts/Rapists don't seem like the types who'd care too much about what toilet they were in to begin with.



Perverts/Rapists look for isolation.

Maybe we should make it illegal for Transgenders to use stairwells, elevators, parking structures, etc.



I think that would be very draconian. I think it best just to stop transgenders using female washrooms. Its not likely that young women, as in the OP, will be wandering around naked in stairwells, elevators and parking structures, etc. and if they are then they probably dont mind who sees them.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 12:28 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth
Well at least we agree then on that, transgenders are not handicapped.

I already explained to you the process for The Disability Act becoming law. It was a majority decision in congress.



I know all about the Disability Act. It is a Civil Rights Law that prohibits discrimination.

And I personally lived through life before and after. I was only 5 when my mom contracted polio. For 30+ years my mom had no protection against discrimination. We were kicked out of places because of the ICK factor.

I know from personal experience that people had to be FORCED to not discriminate against the handicap. And there were lawsuits filed to not have to accommodate the handicap.

Joe Biden says: Transgender discrimination is Civil Rights issue of our time.

Most legal cases won have been in favor for the non-discrimination of the Civil Rights of the transgender.

It is a Civil Rights non-discrimination case and it will be Forced by law.



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 12:46 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth
Well at least we agree then on that, transgenders are not handicapped.

I already explained to you the process for The Disability Act becoming law. It was a majority decision in congress.



I know all about the Disability Act. It is a Civil Rights Law that prohibits discrimination.

And I personally lived through life before and after. I was only 5 when my mom contracted polio. For 30+ years my mom had no protection against discrimination. We were kicked out of places because of the ICK factor.

I know from personal experience that people had to be FORCED to not discriminate against the handicap. And there were lawsuits filed to not have to accommodate the handicap.

Joe Biden says: Transgender discrimination is Civil Rights issue of our time.

Most legal cases won have been in favor for the non-discrimination of the Civil Rights of the transgender.

It is a Civil Rights non-discrimination case and it will be Forced by law.





Will leave the forced/non forced, minority/majority discussion there. We are not going to agree, and nor do I want to confuse my position with denial of any prejudice that occured.

In terms of Joe Biden - if he really thinks transgender discrimitaion is a top issue issue of our time (civil rights or not - i find it strange that he would even be talking about civil rights, especially in America, right now with all the problems of the world) then i feel sorry for him. He obviously has no grip on what is going on in the world around him.

There is currently a child dying every 10 seconds in this world from hunger. We should address this human right to survive (never mid civil right) as a matter of urgency and maybe hold off on transgender bathrooms until the big problems are solved.


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posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 12:49 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth
I do hope though that the majority get behind making it illegal for m2f transgenders to use womens bathrooms.


So you have no problem with trans* men using the boy's room?

Why's that?



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 12:51 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth
I do hope though that the majority get behind making it illegal for m2f transgenders to use womens bathrooms.


So you have no problem with trans* men using the boy's room?

Why's that?


Perhaps read the thread?



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