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Students protest transgender invasion of privacy

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posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 05:50 PM
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a reply to: Annee

And your point is what exactly? I've made myself perfectly clear as to how I see things.

Deism is the closest thing to what I think. So you don't like it because you see it differently.

Knock yourself out. I don't sweat the little things.




posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 06:03 PM
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originally posted by: 123143
a reply to: Annee

And your point is what exactly? I've made myself perfectly clear as to how I see things.

Deism is the closest thing to what I think. So you don't like it because you see it differently.

Knock yourself out. I don't sweat the little things.


I don't know what you're even saying.

When did I say I didn't like Deism?

I was speaking of natural evolution which creates natural variations. Seems to me that fits perfectly with Deism.



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 06:06 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Wow. If that's what you got from reading my post I'm done talking to you. Your reading comprehension is in the basement.



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 07:00 PM
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originally posted by: 123143
a reply to: Annee

Wow. If that's what you got from reading my post I'm done talking to you. Your reading comprehension is in the basement.


Or you could clarify what you mean, since I've already stated I don't know what you're saying.



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 07:22 PM
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I get that you want to put a "padlock" on the Creators -- Laws of Nature.

That you don't want to accept evolution creates variations.



Deistic evolutionists hold that God created the universe and the laws of nature... but that once the ball was rolling, he ceased to intervene in the day-today running of the world or in the course of natural law. God was like the ether after Einstein: he no longer had any role to play in the universe.

Deistic evolution does not oppose or contradict evolution or come into conflict with science as it says that a God started the process and then left it to natural processes. However deism is still a religious philosophy. en.m.wikipedia.org...




posted on Dec, 29 2015 @ 06:24 AM
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originally posted by: Freija
Oh, there's so much more I could say but when minds are willfully closed, what's the point?

Again, the girls that have complained have not said it was because they have seen Student A's penis or that they had to see her change clothes. They complained because this person could see them change.

Curiously, these girls have also said that if Student A had undergone sex reassignment surgery, it wouldn't matter if she was in their changing room as if that is somehow going to make a difference? She's going to be the exact same person with the same thoughts, feelings and attitudes so how does that make these other girls feel less uncomfortable?

It's a matter of knowledge, if the student had completed the gender reassignment surgery prior to the new school year, then these girls would likely have never known the difference and the student could have lived out their lives never having to have their choices be on public display. However that didn't happen, the student hasn't completed the gender reassignment surgery, and as such the student is causing untold stress to the girls who have use the change room with the student.

I guess it comes down to one simple question, at what point do the feelings of one group trump the feelings of another? In this case we have a transgender student whose feeling are hurt because they might have to use the change room that fits their body rather than the one that fits their chosen gender, or somehow worse yet a private change room (oh the horror, a free private space away from other prying eyes!). On the other side you have the girls who are being forced to change with someone who is clearly physically still a male, and forcing them to deal with all the psychological ramifications or trauma that may come from being forced into such a situation. By allowing the trans student to change with the girls you are in effect saying that their feelings have more worth than that of the girls, and that the girls are out of luck and should just "deal with it". You are also showing the girls (and the remaining student body as a result) that their cares and concerns will be largely ignored by not only the school board but the country at large in favor of pandering to the minority.

One possible solution would be to pull the trans child from school (and obviously homeschool them) until such time as they complete the gender reassignment surgery and are fully female, at which time they could re enroll in the school and be fully included in all thing female without having to worry about being excluded or ostracized. It solves all problems with the least amount of fuss and muss. The girls get their change room back, and no longer have to worry about being around a physical male while changing. The trans student gets the acceptance and privacy they want, without forcing others into an uncomfortable situation.And the school board gets to avoid this land mine of a topic... Problem solved. But of course that's too easy of a solution and people will cry it's not fair to have to pull the trans student and risk them losing a year of their schooling. To that I ask, is that any less fair than forcing a bunch of teenage girls into a very uncomfortable situation with someone who is physically still a male? Or any less fair than just asking the trans student to go to the change room that fits their body type?



posted on Dec, 29 2015 @ 06:41 AM
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change room that fits their body rather than the one that fits their chosen gender


This small, simple statement belies a sad amount of ignorance/misinformation. Being transgender isn't a "choice" any more than being homosexual, Caucasian, or the location of the hospital you were born in is.


clearly physically still a male


Oh? Oh really? Freija, do you happen to have a picture of this particular student, or someone as far along their therapy as this particular student is?
I believe I read somewhere that they were taking hormones.
I do not believe they are "clearly" still physically male unless you're one of those people that argue it is the penis, and ONLY the penis that makes someone "male."

I'll say it again. This isn't a problem caused by the girls, it's a problem caused by society, by people like you, who make this a question of the transgender person's rights vs. the girl's rights. It shouldn't be an issue at all, because the transgender person IS. NOT. MALE. The root cause of the issue also has nothing to do with either of them, since forcing students to communally change is terrible for privacy anyway.



posted on Dec, 29 2015 @ 07:15 AM
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originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn

change room that fits their body rather than the one that fits their chosen gender


This small, simple statement belies a sad amount of ignorance/misinformation. Being transgender isn't a "choice" any more than being homosexual, Caucasian, or the location of the hospital you were born in is.


That's kind of splitting hairs don't you think. I mean they were born as one gender but insist on being another gender, what else would you call it other than a choice... even if it's biological they still have the choice to remain the gender they were born with, no matter how uncomfortable, or to change to another gender (that may or may not end up being more comfortable to them).



Oh? Oh really? Freija, do you happen to have a picture of this particular student, or someone as far along their therapy as this particular student is?
I believe I read somewhere that they were taking hormones.
I do not believe they are "clearly" still physically male unless you're one of those people that argue it is the penis, and ONLY the penis that makes someone "male."


If asked what is the first difference that comes to mind between and male and a female, what would you answer? most people (including most young kids) will say the male has a penis, and the female doesn't. It's basic anatomy. You can also add to that, that in nature only the male of a species will have a penis, or in other words a MALE sexual organ. So yes, having a Penis does infact make one a male, at least by basic definition, but it certainly isn't the ONLY thing, don't be silly.
edit on 29-12-2015 by looneylupinsrevenge because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2015 @ 09:05 AM
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originally posted by: looneylupinsrevenge
That's kind of splitting hairs don't you think. I mean they were born as one gender but insist on being another gender, what else would you call it other than a choice... even if it's biological they still have the choice to remain the gender they were born with, no matter how uncomfortable, or to change to another gender (that may or may not end up being more comfortable to them).


No, it's not splitting hairs. It's a legitimate and important point to make, someone's gender is not their choice, yet often it is regarded that way.
The only reason changing to their true gender may be more uncomfortable for them is because of how they are perceived by society. Because of how they are treated by others.

Just like you have the choice to not do what I want you to do while I'm ripping your nails off with pliers, eh?
Choice under extreme duress is not choice.



If asked what is the first difference that comes to mind between and male and a female, what would you answer? most people (including most young kids) will say the male has a penis, and the female doesn't. It's basic anatomy. You can also add to that, that in nature only the male of a species will have a penis, or in other words a MALE sexual organ. So yes, having a Penis does infact make one a male, at least by basic definition, but it certainly isn't the ONLY thing, don't be silly.


Genetics.
Are these teenagers young kids? No, they are not.

Except that it's a Y chromosome that makes someone biologically male, not a penis. If I sliced mine off, would I no longer be biologically male?

It certainly seems to be the only thing that matters, because the argument people have been making is "if this transgender person has a penis, they should be in the male's changing room." without regard for the other physical characteristics a transgender person going through therapy might possess. Womanly hips, breasts, voice, lack of hair, muscular structure, jaw shape, so on and so forth. The presence or absence of the penis seems to be the only thing people ever seem to care about.

Time and time again I will say this, the current issues we are faced with in regards to discrimination against homosexuals, transgenderism, and racism, while having some measure of basis in biology, is for the vast part a cultural and societal issue.
People like you are part of the problem. You don't seem maleficent like others can be, but you lack understanding for a few crucial parts of the situation. Perhaps it is just my own misunderstanding, but you seem to think that physical sex characteristics are like turning a switch, you are "male" or "female" with no middle ground. However, it's possible to be like one sex or the other in all traits BUT the genitals.

Tell me; think of some random female you know. Let us say... Cameron Diaz. Imagine she had a penis rather than the female reproductive organ, but is otherwise identical to her current self.
What room does she change in?
What bathroom does she go to?
edit on 29/12/2015 by Eilasvaleleyn because: Reasons



posted on Dec, 29 2015 @ 09:38 AM
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isn't indecent exposure a sex crime?

I would think local statutes would prevail over Department of education 'policy'



posted on Dec, 29 2015 @ 10:15 AM
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Why do we have our teenage kids undress and take showers in front of each other anyway, even if they are the same gender? Why can't they have private changing rooms and private showers? What is the purpose of group undressing, and group showering?



posted on Dec, 29 2015 @ 12:04 PM
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originally posted by: looneylupinsrevenge

It's a matter of knowledge, if the student had completed the gender reassignment surgery prior to the new school year, then these girls would likely have never known the difference...

Actually, this "knowledge" you speak of is anything but. It falls more under the category of prejudice or ignorance and comes pretty close to being transphobic by definition. (Note: I am not calling you these things). What this says is it's okay to accept the transgender kid as long as nobody knows they're transgender i.e. "the difference".

Another point here is the SIX girls complaining they're uncomfortable changing clothes around Student A, are 15 & 16 years old and full nudity and showering are not part of this story. That probably makes them sophomores or juniors in high school? In this country at least, it is very rare for SRS/GRS to be performed before the age of 18 although a former member here was able to do so at 17.

Being trans as a child is one of the most incomprehensible and difficult challenges a person of any age has to face. One of the objectives of supportive parents, of which many are not, is to raise an emotionally healthy and happy child without detriment to their self-esteem or treating them like they are broken or damaged goods or like something is wrong with them. Singling out, excluding, separating and segregating these kids from their peers is not the way to send this message and why we see this fight for inclusion and normalcy.


originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
Freija, do you happen to have a picture of this particular student, or someone as far along their therapy as this particular student is?

No, for reasons of privacy, the identity of Student A has not been revealed. I posted pictures of other trans teenagers on pages 4 and 14. Student A socially and legally transitioned in grade school, was on blockers and not subject to the effects of male puberty and is on estrogen developing the same secondary sex characteristics as other girls her age.


originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
No, it's not splitting hairs. It's a legitimate and important point to make, someone's gender is not their choice, yet often it is regarded that way.
The only reason changing to their true gender may be more uncomfortable for them is because of how they are perceived by society. Because of how they are treated by others.

Just like you have the choice to not do what I want you to do while I'm ripping your nails off with pliers, eh?
Choice under extreme duress is not choice.

Somebody gets it. The word "uncomfortable" is a huge misnomer and belies the fact that for many of these kids, it comes down to a matter of life and death. The phrases "identifies as" and "thinks they are" belittles a child's knowledge of what they know they are to their very foundation and core sense of self. This runs deeper than most can imagine and if you really want to screw up and confuse these kids, deny what they say or who they are and treat them like pariahs that have no normal place in this world.

Yes, being a teenage girl with breasts, curves, long hair and for all intents and purposes is outwardly just like other natal girls and is known as and treated as such does make life difficult with anomalous male genitalia. What do we do with these kids? Make them sit at the back of the bus or drink from their own water fountains? Treat them like perverted freaks, sexual predators and exclude and separate them from the normal aspects of life and cisnormative society. Yeah, that'll make healthy and happy kids that grow up as successful and productive adults.

Barring all personal feelings aside for a moment, if as a parent of a transgender child, what would you want for your kid? How would you want them to be treated? Do you want to send the message that something is wrong with them or that they are inferior due to differences that are no fault of their own or do you want their lives to be as inclusive and normal as possible? From that angle, this whole issue becomes a lot more complicated particularly when faced with ignorance and prejudice by society at large.



posted on Dec, 29 2015 @ 12:34 PM
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Came across an article on Facebook and thought it might be of some interest to this thread Do I have boobs now?

Here is a screenshot from the article pointing out the similarities of male and female breasts and how one is perfectly acceptable for society to view and the other when seen in public garners gasps of horror and disgust.


Quite a double standard isn't it and all so very silly behavior over exposed nipples lol.

So the left picture is ok but not the right? When does the war against women in general end?


edit on 29-12-2015 by RainbowPhoenix because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2015 @ 01:05 PM
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What about those people who consider themselves neither male nor female? Should we have a bathroom for them too? We could have 5 bathrooms - Male / Female / Non-Binary / Male to Female Transgender / Female to Male transgender.

After all, why leave out the non-binaries? We musn't invade their safe spaces or show them any micro aggression.

In fact, I have to chastise myself because I forgot the 'species dysphoria' people who do not consider themselves human, rather animals trapped in human bodies. They will need a bathroom too, so thats 6. There are probably more that we'll need - to make sure no individuals are discrimated against.

Or, we could just stick to Male / Female and if you have a penis you use the male bathroom and if you have a vagina you use the female bathroom. That would be totally crazy though, I know.
edit on 29/12/2015 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)

edit on 29/12/2015 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2015 @ 01:12 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth
What about those people who consider themselves neither male nor female? Should we have a bathroom for them too?


Do you have a source article on these people? And their personal views on the situation?

Just curious.



posted on Dec, 29 2015 @ 01:15 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

Or, we could just stick to Male / Female and if you have a penis you use the male bathroom and if you have a vagina you use the female bathroom. That would be totally crazy though, I know.


Ah, I see.

Back to being identified by the penis.



posted on Dec, 29 2015 @ 01:17 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth
What about those people who consider themselves neither male nor female? Should we have a bathroom for them too?


Do you have a source article on these people? And their personal views on the situation?

Just curious.


Lots on the web,

But to get give you a couple of links :

en.wikipedia.org...
gender.wikia.com...

Now, whether they want their own toilets or not I don't know, but one of them might do and I do not think we have asked them all. Better to be safe than sorry.



posted on Dec, 29 2015 @ 01:24 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

Or, we could just stick to Male / Female and if you have a penis you use the male bathroom and if you have a vagina you use the female bathroom. That would be totally crazy though, I know.


Ah, I see.

Back to being identified by the penis.


I know, its shocking to identify the penis with male and vagina with female. What must I have been thinking?! Apologies to anyone I may have offended.
edit on 29/12/2015 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2015 @ 01:29 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

Or, we could just stick to Male / Female and if you have a penis you use the male bathroom and if you have a vagina you use the female bathroom. That would be totally crazy though, I know.


Ah, I see.

Back to being identified by the penis.


I know, its shocking to identify the penis with male and vagina with female. What must I have been thinking?! Apologies to anyone I may have offended.


Especially since it's been talked about and explained multiple times in these 22 pages.



posted on Dec, 29 2015 @ 01:33 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth
What about those people who consider themselves neither male nor female? Should we have a bathroom for them too?


Do you have a source article on these people? And their personal views on the situation?

Just curious.


Now, whether they want their own toilets or not I don't know, but one of them might do and I do not think we have asked them all. Better to be safe than sorry.


But, that is the question in this thread.

We already know there is a complexity and variety in the creation of a living being.



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