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Is there Evidence in the Gospels that the Virgin Birth was a Cover-Up for... Something Else?

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posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 11:19 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

thanks for the reply! I am beyond fascinated with pagan religions and it's so interesting to see how they get incorporated into monotheistic religions, in such a hidden way, almost like a backhanded compliment.

I think you're absolutely correct and some christians that I've had discussions with are so turned off of the idea of a goddess, that any implication that there may be some goddess worship hidden in their religion sends them running for the hills or connecting any sort of goddess to something satanic or involved with witchcraft.

I don't understand why they fear it so, most (ancient, especially) started with goddess worship in one way or another. to me to just makes sense to have both sides represented in a spiritual way.




posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 12:16 PM
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I think there are about 25 stories in mythology that predate the Jesus timeline that are pretty much identical to the gospels.
You all know the stories, so I won't go too much into it.
Most of those stories include some sort of virgin birth.
The Christian idea of the nativity is simply an adaptation of previous myths.
Abraham was a Sumerian, so there's probably a link back there.



posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 01:18 PM
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a reply to: Badgered1

Go make some money.
zeitgeistchallenge.com...



posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 03:31 PM
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A very interesting discussion and surely the whole "Almah" "bethulah" controversy is a big subject. Anyway here are few stuff to consider concerning definitions of words and their meanings.

Some definitions first :

Almah

almah: a young woman, a virgin
Original Word: עַלְמָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: almah
Phonetic Spelling: (al-maw')
Short Definition: maidens


Naarah

naarah: a girl, maiden
Original Word: נַעֲרָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: naarah
Phonetic Spelling: (nah-ar-aw')
Short Definition: girl

Bethulah

bethulah: a virgin
Original Word: בְּתוּלָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: bethulah
Phonetic Spelling: (beth-oo-law')
Short Definition: virgin



Here is a question to ask : Was Rebecca when she married Isaac a virgin ? What word was used to describe Rebecca ? "Alma" ? "Naarah" ? or "Betulah" ?

So what was the marital status of Rebecca in GEN 24:16 ? According to this article titled : Women of the Bible - Rebecca:

6. WHAT WAS HER MARITAL STATUS? (GEN 24:16).

a) she was a virgin- bethulah, "a virgin" (which can mean a
virgin pledged to be married and engaging in sexual relations
with her espoused) vs. 16.
- almah "a virgin and virtuous" vs. 43

b) no man had known her- she had had no sexual relations vs. 16.


The thing you must realize is that in the Greek language "neanis" is a young maiden/women. Instead of "neanis" the LXX used the word "parthenos". The "parthenos" used in LXX has the same meaning as "almah" has in many Biblical references. In other words, the Bible uses the word "almah" in various passages to refer to young unmarried women who were culturally and religiously expected to be virgins.

 


Few things to consider concerning LXX

The LXX is was meant for the Hellenistic Jews who were fluent in Koine Greek but not in Hebrew.

Hellenistic Judaism was a form of Judaism in the ancient world that combined Jewish religious tradition with elements of Greek culture. The major literary product of the contact of Second Temple Judaism and Hellenistic culture is the Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Bible from Biblical Hebrew and Biblical Aramaic to Koiné Greek, specifically, Jewish Koiné Greek.

Hellenistic Judaism
To be more precise

Jewish Koine Greek, or Jewish Hellenistic Greek, is the variety of Koine Greek or "common Attic" found in a number of Alexandrian dialect texts of Hellenistic Judaism, most notably the Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Bible and associated literature, as well as Greek Jewish texts from Palestine. The term is largely equivalent with Greek of the Septuagint as a cultural and literary rather than a linguistic category. The minor syntax and vocabulary variations in the Koine Greek of Jewish authors are not as linguistically distinctive as the later language Yevanic, or Judeo-Greek, spoken by the Romaniotes Jews in Greece.

The term "Jewish Koine" is to be distinguished from the concept of a "Jewish koine" as a literary-religious not linguistic concept.[1]

Jewish Koine Greek



Regards

Seed



posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 08:26 PM
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originally posted by: Punisher75
a reply to: vethumanbeing

punisher75: Almah (עלמה, plural: alamot עלמות, in Arabic Amah آمه which means unspecified women or a women passed teen age aside of her sexual status) is a Hebrew word meaning a young woman of childbearing age who has not yet had a child, and who may be (but does not have to be) an unmarried virgin or a married young woman.

Someone lucid should have re-written this meaning (in Arabic) or Hebrew to specify "the aphorism".

Punisher75: So no it does not HAVE to mean Virgin, however it does include the meaning.
The greater issue is not the definition of one word, with dual meaning; but rather which definition the word should use.
We are speaking about Christian Soteriology so in that context we know that the meaning is virgin and not just young girl.

Does not have to mean Virgin? What is the point otherwise. A virgin is a virgin and not just a young girl? Joseph did not marry an old women (even though included in this meaning). Obviously Mary was no longer a virgin when Joseph finally took her to bed; or was she? Matthew says Joseph was the Father of Jesus; after being told by an angel of the lord "was woken and bidden to take unto him his wife" (consummate). He was not to touch her again until the son was born. Matt.1:18-25. This is all highly metaphorical and up to interpretation.
edit on 4-1-2016 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 07:27 PM
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a reply to: Sigismundus

PHI ....lo....sophy, the ancient PHI review of sophia...the love of wisdom.

Wisdom or the wise was a review of spirit.

Occultism was the abuse of spirit by taking spiritual information and converting spiritual information.

SCIENCE, created/formed and thought about from a human male's own spiritual journey and self awareness. The ancient tradition for gaining information was in a drugged chemical mind state called spiritual journeys.

When you are drugged you have an incorrect conscious spiritual review.

A male thought about how he was created in this mind drugged state.

Obviously a male was created in his own physical Mother's womb......how could he know how he was created...he would not know. He then thought about his own self in this spiritual stated review. Of course it would seem immaculate, for how could he know sperm?

The human psyche formed from the condition of their own cellular function as chemicals and cells.

The human spiritual psyche journey in a drugged chemical mind state, then asked questions about the atmosphere.

A human male called Planet Earth Mother...called the atmosphere the Veils of the Mother and called the Nature of animals and trees on Earth Mother Nature.....where is the Mother exactly? She never existed, and was only the physical mother that he thought about as he thought about all other conditions.....for his own spirit was created inside of the cell of his own Mother's human physical presence.

Occultism fake and false drugged information that was used and applied determined incorrect for the human life using the information in ancient times then incinerated his own life. This was because he was using stone levitation via the somatic journey information that he reviewed. Being in a drugged mind state gave him unrealistic evaluated conditons....and any human in modern time reviews should consider the obvious....SINCE WHEN is an atmospheric body any conditon other than gasesous body interactions, where is the spirit actually?

So then we face the arguments of what has happened since...such as Fatima being witnessed.

Can spirit presence manifest in light and sound....yes.

Why would a female spirit manifest in the light and sound of the atmosphere when nuclear science was changing the atmosphere?

Because it attacked human life and caused brain chemical image changes...euphoric reactions from brain chemical changes.

If your natural brain chemical changed....where would the image form?

It would form in the atmosphere as the missing natural information that should have been in your own body.

How did the image get placed there?

By unnatural means...occultism...the removal of the natural light/brain chemical information for it was first perused in a human male's drugged mind.

Did it really happen....obviously yes it did...but the human beings witnessing the outcome lost their own spirit.

The spirit manifested gave the information of the technology PHI as the philosophy of creation and then disappear.

So the atmosphere would have lost a body of oxygen/water/hydrogen removed from the human life.

Spirit is not what you think it is.........and it is about time that occultist face this fact, it is evil by review.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 09:56 PM
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a reply to: beenharmed

This is incomprehensible.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 10:14 PM
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originally posted by: vethumanbeing
a reply to: beenharmed

This is incomprehensible.


Fake ....occultism is fake...science is fake and is only about life destruction itself, an already learnt lesson on Earth.

Occultist practice is to use phenomena evidence as if it is real as an identity....fake. Fatima was fake.

The reason Fatima was fake is because it is a cause and effect outcome......caused.

The natural oxygen/hydrogen/water interaction with the human DNA cellular production was attacked/changed/taken and given to a scientific conversion wavelength. The human life missing the cell and chemical reaction then changed.

They change their brain chemistry which causes image reflection to also change....image reflection CAUSE AND EFFECT changes by the increase of radiation burning up the oxygen/hydrogen and water. The human being does not get the reaction, the brain changes and the image changes via the condition of interaction with the atmosphere itself.

Only witnessed by the cellular condition that interacted with it....demonstrating it is a scientific CAUSE AND EFFECT outcome....personal via the Medium change of the atmospheric body itself.

Was there ever a Mother in the atmosphere?

The reality is FAKE, no there never was a Mother.....the atmosphere is a PHI condition of review as a science....since when is PHI rationally a spirit....isn't a circle condition used in science just SOUND? Of course it is. Mass is also just sound.

If you apply a circular condition as a constant O to remove mass from the light body sound of the atmosphere....then you form a science. Mass is light and sound and so is the O constant....not a spirit. Where is the Mother.....fake.

The reason it is fake is because human life exists in a natural life condition....NO OWNERSHIP.

Human beings are male and female....animals are male and female....Nature is its own self.

Who implied science and occult reviews to placate a scientific occult practice? A MALE.

How did he gain information when he himself is simply a male human organic life form?

By incorrect assertions claiming himself to be all knowing, when he was not.

He therefore implied that a female existed as the Earth stone...when it is just stone and light sound.
He therefore implied that a female was the veils in the Heavenly body....when it is just a natural gaseous body.
He therefore implied that Nature was a female...when it is self spirit bodies of animals etc.

Why did he impose a female condition to the above status of MARY?

Because he wanted to get destroyed....he has a self egotistic evaluated mind condition for making assertions about creation that do not exist. TRUTH.

How did he realize how wrong his ego is....when he began to destroy and attack his own self...as ancient documentation attests.

Therefore every day he peruses his own information makes statements that the information is correct and then tries to insinuate that he will gain the information.

Why do I personally know this is real?

Because as a human female who provided evidence of spiritual Healing, I was used in an illegal scientific secret experiment, which I am trying to provide as evidence to the public about secret occultism itself.

Why would a male placate that a female was the power to creation.....when by scientific circumstance he changed his own ideals about naming of elements...and gave no spiritual review to their naming?

Because he already knew he was wrong about the condition of spirit....yet still wanted to alchemize.

His thoughts came from his own psyche and his own organic Mother's cells created his own consciousness....why else do you think he was wrong?



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 10:20 PM
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a reply to: beenharmed

Similar incomprehensibly (but a good college try to explain prior incomprehensible). Could you take your large ideas and condense them into a smaller formats (easier to digest) for one to assimilate and comment upon. I suppose I mean have some focus is all.
edit on 5-1-2016 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 01:03 AM
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originally posted by: vethumanbeing
a reply to: beenharmed

Similar incomprehensibly (but a good college try to explain prior incomprehensible). Could you take your large ideas and condense them into a smaller formats (easier to digest) for one to assimilate and comment upon. I suppose I mean have some focus is all.


Evil minded comments from a human evil minded thought.

I am not the Mother, I am a human being female organic body that is equal to my own brother's evil self. Unlike my evil possessed occult brother I do not believe that I can create plasma from out of the Earth's atmosphere and hence have been trying to inform him about his own misconceived.....unholy thoughts that he gained from his practice of drugging his own sick mind with somatic concotions that gave him unrealistic spiritual images and information that he then caused to manifest.

There was never ever any Mother spirit in the atmosphere.....can't you understand simple words? Do I have to try to speak science ....sorry don't know alien myself.

Modern day occultists thought that their evil documents were proven when Fatima was witnessed in the atmosphere......they actually were given a demonstration of how evil they are.

They believe that bleeding from the natural cell/blood/skin creation is holy, along with a changed chemical brain reaction.

We only change our brain chemistry when it is changed by atmospheric attacks, as the information implied.

Fatima, witnessed in the atmosphere was a changed medium of atmospheric transmitted oxygen/water/hydrogen that naturally interacts with the Earth stone to keep it from irradiating us all.

This is why the spiritual information was biblical because scientists of the occult made a biblical equated wavelength study of the atmosphere and Earth stone via a satellite relay. They began to study the UFO formation hoping that it would lead them into a new technological advice....and believe that it is going to save their inhumane selves....but you are wrong.

Their theory is that they could take the atmospheric plasma function that they studied from the life force of humanity and place it in the collider for their own use....and applied a new fake theory to support their own occult considerations.

As their brains are already affected by the ancient evil radiation spirit that they manifested themselves at the ground level....the human beings who involve their persons in the secret societies of the occult are all like minded....no matter how elite you believe yourself to be.

Unlike the normal human being who believes in holiness you believe in the destruction of life for self gain, and always have.

The secret meaning of the GOSPELS is the GO SPELLS, and when our ancient holier brother reviewed his own spiritual life attack he realized that he had changed the evaluated PHI condition that he was using....what he implied was the ANGEL of the cross + as a value of L.

The Bible is a reviewed personal spiritual history of self witness to self destruction of spirit, and was recorded as personal proof that human life had been attacked by the ancient use of the occult practice using the Book of the Dead.

Therefore when a modern day occultist believes that he has something holy, he only transmitted a message that had already attacked life....which is why he witnessed the same sort of attack happening again.....stigmata first forming as an AIDS outcome....changing the holiness of the human male's bloodline. It then became EBOLA, the same stigmata condition as the CHRIST STIGMATA...but as an evolved attack.

Occultism is evil, always was. Human life exists in a Natural environment that does not belong to any human self. Scientists decided by their own choice to change our natural life on Earth and have since been fighting and arguing with the public trying to bring public attention to their evil acts....as usual dealt with in the same occult manner that they always have dealt.

Too bad for humanity thinking that the spiritual organizations are actually spiritual.
edit on 6-1-2016 by beenharmed because: spelling error



posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 01:17 AM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing

Again you cannot take one word and pick one of its many uses and decide which one to use without taking everything else into context, not just linguistically but historically, and culturally.

There were not I dare say, an over abundance of young non married girls who were not in fact virgins.
Why?
Because Virginity was an honored trait, and something to be proud of for the ancient Hebrew.
This would be the Cultural argument.

For example say I said, there is a 10 year old school girl that lives across the street from me. You would I hope rightfully assume that she was a virgin.

In short what was understood does not need to be spelled out.

Now that being said, not only would it have been assumed she was a virgin based calling her a young girl, but the rest of the sorteriology demands that she be viewed that way. If not then Christ would have been born with sin, if he was born with sin then he obviously could not be the Son of God.

If you choose to believe that Christ was not the Son of God, or if you do choose to believe that he was, is irrelevant to how the passage is to be interpreted and the word usage is to be understood.
If a proper hermenutic is not applied then we cannot be reasonably be certain that we can understand any text at all.



posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 01:25 AM
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Matthew says Joseph was the Father of Jesus; after being told by an angel of the lord "was woken and bidden to take unto him his wife" (consummate). He was not to touch her again until the son was born. Matt.1:18-25. This is all highly metaphorical and up to interpretation.


And if you continue the passage...

18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together,
(Before they Had Sex...)
she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
(Pregnant before they had sex...)

19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example,
(because she was pregnant and he did not do it...)
was minded to put her away privily.
(Because he thought she cheated on him...)

20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
(I.E. she did not cheat on you bro...)

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Context is King.

You say it is all Metaphorical, however I am interested to see why you would think that based on the text?
The question posed by the OP was is the bible secretly covering up something about Mary being a virgin, or does the Bible teach that Mary was something other than a Virgin.
I said no.
I said No because there is zero evidence for that so far as I can tell.
You having the opinion that the virgin Birth is meant to be understood as metaphor is something I am curious about. What makes you feel that way?
Do you think that all passages in scripture are meant to be taken as metaphor?
If so why?
I see no reason to assume so, generally you know when something is taken to be metaphor when it is contrasted by something else, for example the passage in the Book of Revelation concerning Christs appearance.

Revelations 1:12:16
12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
14His head and his hairs were white like wool, (METAPHOR) as white as snow (METAPHOR); and his eyes were as a flame of fire; (METAPHOR)
15 And his feet like unto fine brass,(METAPHOR) as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.(METAPHOR)
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. (METAPHORS)

How do we know this is metaphor? Because the scripture tells us so.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

So what does this tell us? it tells us that the stars represent angels and the candlesticks represent the seven churches (METAPHORS)

Maybe you are not sure what a metaphor is I am not sure.

"A metaphor is a figure of speech that identifies something as being the same as some unrelated thing for rhetorical effect, thus highlighting the similarities between the two."



edit on 6-1-2016 by Punisher75 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 02:22 AM
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originally posted by: mapsurfer_

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
So, did Mary lie about having sex, or did a miracle occur?




Parthenogenesis

edit on 6/11/16 by Elentarri because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 07:08 PM
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a reply to: Punisher75

Well said.

On a brighter note, one could make a case that even though there was some sort of apparent sexual misconduct going on in all of the genealogical list of wanton females in the gospel of 'Matthew', eventually all these women gave birth to heroes or famous men in some form, so it seems to be the point of the writer ("Matthew') to suggest that even if Miryam of Galilee was indeed pregnant outside of wedlock, there is ample history to show that 'God's Plan of Salvation' can still be worked out -

In other words, he 'works in mysterious ways' - more like ironic ways - and the implication of including the women in the Genealogy was to warn his readers 'not to judge by appearances'...in that case, one would have to remember that both his beginning (i.e. as a 'mamzer' born of illicit union) and his end (i.e. crucifixion as an armed seditionist against Rome) were 'cursed' in terms of outward appearances.

But does this answer the question of why both Matthew and Luke went to such obvious lengths to twist the meaning of Isaiah 7:14 (converting Heb. ALMAH 'young girl' into BETHULAH = Gk 'Parthenos' = "virgin') into something she was not - i.e. more like the birth of a pagan god like Hercules or a great hero like Alexander the Great and Julius Caesar who were also thought to have been born 'partheno-theodikos' i.e. a god born of a virgin?

Or was it merely to cover up some scandalous accusations of the 2nd & 3rd century Rebbes in the Talmud (some found in the gospels themselves as John 8:41 and at the same time somehow turn their Messiah-Rabbi into the kind of god-man the pagans could revere?

Maybe the early Church after 100 CE thought it necessary (being immersed in a pagan millieu in the late 1st century and early 2nd century CE) to 'make up' the 'Virgin Birth' story out of the LXX Greek Septuaginta version of Isaiah 7:14 out of whole cloth as a sort of 'pious fraud' (like a 'white lie') in order to cover up some of these inconcinnities and make a "physical negative" into a "spiritual positive" for the man they proclaimed as Messiah, just as they were to do with the way he died?

After all, like Alexander, Plato (Gk. Aristocles) born in Athens in 429 B.C. was believed by the Greeks to have been the Divine Son of a virgin named Perictione. Even Krsna in India was thought to have been born of a virgin named Devaki, whose title was Mother of the God...

Closer to Palestine, Horus (Egyptian: Kheru), like the Egyptian god Ra, was believed to have been born of the virgin Isis (Egyptian Aset) and his miraculous conception and birth was considered one of the three great mysteries or mystical doctrines of the ancient Egyptian religion.

It seems that the only reason that Christianity used the Hebrew Scriptures vis a vis the Virgin Birth stories (dragging in Isaiah 7:14) was to made him 'easier to sell' to the pagan populations surrounding Judaea on the part of the writer(s) of the gospels of "Matthew' and 'Luke' by producing their own miraculous virgin birth.

But reviewing the Genealogy, it certainly begs the Question: If 'Jesus' was supposed to have had no earthly father why do BOTH his genealogies trace their bloodlines through Joseph?

But this is all food for thought : or as Professor C.K. Barrett used to say: What exactly is the writer of 'Matthew' trying to tell us?



posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 07:34 PM
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But reviewing the Genealogy, it certainly begs the Question: If 'Jesus' was supposed to have had no earthly father why do BOTH his genealogies trace their bloodlines through Joseph?

Why don't you be a philosopher considering why their own spiritual life had been attacked and given stigmata?

Is stigmata a common life occurrence....yes it is, therefore it is not owned by 1 human incident....it was owned by the spiritual life of humanity.

SEPHIROTH.....the ancient Giza use of an applied Pyramid to Temple technology for the use of stone's levitation and converting of stone matter.

JO SEPH....part of the sephiroth review, if you care to be a real philosopher.

CHRIST....the HOLY OX.....1000, the heavenly atmospheric review of the regeneration of oxygen as a realization of its loss.

The loss = JESUS....an equated PHI realized spiritual review....spirit the actual ethereal body of our atmosphere.

CHRIST 1000 against SATAN 1000 determined that the atmosphere functioned as a balanced interaction, where the function of CHRIST was to remove the radiation (Satanic nuclear stone radiation release) from out of the atmospheric body......so that the evil manifestation dropped into the Great Deep....out of space.

Philosophy knew that the oxygenated ground state interaction kept human life safe from the increased radiation leaking out of stone....caused by the applied science of using/converting the nuclear crystal of stone fuSION....SION an awareness.

When the ancient life was attacked by the increased leakage of radiation, they did a philosophical review of the current day PHI condition....which factored to be the WORD OF GOD Revelation.

It regarded the changes that they had caused to their own physical body by implying that the atmosphere was a female...by implying that the stone was a female and by implying that the animal nature on Earth was a female.

As a spiritual psychic, my ancient brother's past life holographic memory advised me that he knew he was personally wrong for having used and applied occultist methods for converting the nuclear crystal of Planet Earth.

He told me how he gained his own incorrect evaluations of his own person in a drugged somatic state that reviewed information that his actual self did not exist nor remain healthy as a life condition......when applying the levitation of stone.

Therefore he gave himself false evidence to his own personal life.

As his physical Mother is the ONLY MOTHER that he had.....he used his psychic information incorrectly....for he used his own personal spiritual self to describe acts in which his own personal life DID NOT BELONG......he realized after he got attacked how rude and nasty he was to impose a Mother condition to the nuclear....when the only REAL HOLY MOTHER that he had was his own ORGANIC MOTHER....the only SPIRIT PRESENCE that gave him life.

He realized, just like many modern day spiritualists and psychics that our spirit came from out of origin light as Mother and Father origin selves....and then sexual intercourse continued the physical existence......our parents were the only real spirit selves...who gave us our human life.

He misused his psychic spiritual information and then had human life attacked because of it.....always has been wrong and always will be for believing that he can do occult conjuring and survive.



posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 08:47 PM
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But does this answer the question of why both Matthew and Luke went to such obvious lengths to twist the meaning of Isaiah 7:14 (converting Heb. ALMAH 'young girl' into BETHULAH = Gk 'Parthenos' = "virgin')


Or it could be because they understood what they meant and when writing it and when writing to the greeks chose to use the greek language. so they could understand what they meant as well.


into something she was not - i.e. more like the birth of a pagan god like Hercules or a great hero like Alexander the Great and Julius Caesar who were also thought to have been born 'partheno-theodikos' i.e. a god born of a virgin?


Hercules’ mortal father was Amphitryon (nephew of Elektryon, ruler of Mycenae) and his mother was Alkmene; both were from Argos.
There was no virgin birth.
www.ancient.eu...


Or was it merely to cover up some scandalous accusations of the 2nd & 3rd century Rebbes in the Talmud (some found in the gospels themselves as John 8:41 and at the same time somehow turn their Messiah-Rabbi into the kind of god-man the pagans could revere?


Well not likely since they were written at the very latest 110 AD. And that is by an secular reasoning.


After all, like Alexander, Plato (Gk. Aristocles) born in Athens in 429 B.C. was believed by the Greeks to have been the Divine Son of a virgin named Perictione. Even Krsna in India was thought to have been born of a virgin named Devaki, whose title was Mother of the God...


All that is interesting except the title Mary Mother of God is never given that title in the Bible She was Given that title sometime after the 3rd century I believe.


Closer to Palestine, Horus (Egyptian: Kheru), like the Egyptian god Ra, was believed to have been born of the virgin Isis (Egyptian Aset) and his miraculous conception and birth was considered one of the three great mysteries or mystical doctrines of the ancient Egyptian religion.Origin mythology


Except she was not a virgin. The Account is that she gathered up the disembodied body parts of Osiris resurrected him then fashioned a golden penis for him to have sex with her.
www.laits.utexas.edu...


But reviewing the Genealogy, it certainly begs the Question: If 'Jesus' was supposed to have had no earthly father why do BOTH his genealogies trace their bloodlines through Joseph?


Well that would likely be because he was his earthy father nonetheless. You are looking at the situation through 21st century eyes. At the time if you adopted a child you would still include them in your genealogy along with biological children.


But this is all food for thought : or as Professor C.K. Barrett used to say: What exactly is the writer of 'Matthew' trying to tell us?


I think they are trying to say just what they meant.

Remember the Jews did not like the fact that they were ruled by gentiles.
It would seem incredibly difficult to imagine that Matthew or Luke or Mark or John, all proud Hebrews, would be using the deities of people who the rest of the Jewish community did not like as inspiration, to advertise a man the Jewish priesthood did not like to begin with, who was then killed by people who worshiped gods they did not like recognize as God come in flesh.

edit on 6-1-2016 by Punisher75 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 09:31 PM
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a reply to: Punisher75

If Mary were impregnated by Gabriel (or a servant of the Lord) a human would have to have been involved [Joseph] because the ethereal cannot as a higher dimensional vibration drop down on command into physicality to impregnate a human. Its not possible/it has never happened. Joseph is the father of Jesus/as the Jewish Messiah, both Mary and Joseph carry through genetic lines the prophetic 'Davideon' messianic blood line; from more than 14 generations as describes their family in past times to create the Jewish Messiah.
edit on 6-1-2016 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 09:48 PM
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originally posted by: vethumanbeing
a reply to: Punisher75

If Mary were impregnated by Gabriel (or a servant of the Lord) a human would have to have been involved [Joseph] because the ethereal cannot as a higher dimensional vibration drop down on command into physicality to impregnate a human. Its not possible/it has never happened. Joseph is the father of Jesus/as the Jewish Messiah, both Mary and Joseph carry through genetic lines the prophetic messianic blood line.


Okay first off it was not Gabriel it was the Holy Spirit, third person in the trinity.
Second of all even if it were Gabriel or any other angel there is nothing in the scripture that says that cannot happen. We are told in scripture that they can in fact take human form.

Genesis 18:1:8
1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.
6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

(Having taken physical form they all eat... including God in this passage.)
How do we know that these guys were Angels? well we continue to read...

16 And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.
17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;
18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
22And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.

Thats right these are the same men that we see later, in chapter 19...

1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night. 3And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat...
(see they are eating again... obviously having taken physical form)

Now you might say something like, well angel only means messenger in the greek, however as we continue the passage we see something strange....

4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

So what just happened? Well the men in Sodom came and tried to rape them, and they simply blinded them all and walked away. Sounds a bit more intense than something my mailman could do to me.



posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 10:55 PM
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originally posted by: Punisher75

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
a reply to: Punisher75

If Mary were impregnated by Gabriel (or a servant of the Lord) a human would have to have been involved [Joseph] because the ethereal cannot as a higher dimensional vibration drop down on command into physicality to impregnate a human. Its not possible/it has never happened. Joseph is the father of Jesus/as the Jewish Messiah, both Mary and Joseph carry through genetic lines the prophetic messianic blood line.


Okay first off it was not Gabriel it was the Holy Spirit, third person in the trinity.
Second of all even if it were Gabriel or any other angel there is nothing in the scripture that says that cannot happen. We are told in scripture that they can in fact take human form.

Genesis 18:1:8
1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.
6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

(Having taken physical form they all eat... including God in this passage.)
How do we know that these guys were Angels? well we continue to read...

16 And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.
17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;
18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
22And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.

Thats right these are the same men that we see later, in chapter 19...

1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night. 3And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat...
(see they are eating again... obviously having taken physical form)

Now you might say something like, well angel only means messenger in the greek, however as we continue the passage we see something strange....

4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

So what just happened? Well the men in Sodom came and tried to rape them, and they simply blinded them all and walked away. Sounds a bit more intense than something my mailman could do to me.


Not worried about my mailman although the operative tried to make me believe that I was going to be abducted because of their illegal experiment they were conducting on my spirit consciousness...which I became aware of.

Funny isn't it how you can write 2 meanings in a context, with an underlying threat.

As I have informed you OP, the human males who wrote the biblical review, did so from an attacked conscious awareness....it was written as a documented review in 1 review circumstance that involved the attack caused by the occultists applying the Book of the Dead.

As the information is similar in context only because the information was being used to attack their life, don't believe for one moment that you have any powerful informed spiritual review about God....this is the information about the attack caused by fall out of God...the change of natural Satanic atmospheric interactions and the revelations of what it caused to the Earth stone....the atmospheric veil review and also human and nature as an attack.

Occult scientists might believe, because occultist would believe that they held the power of God, when all they got was fall out.



posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 11:51 PM
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originally posted by: Punisher75
originally posted by: vethumanbeing
a reply to: Punisher75


vhb: If Mary were impregnated by Gabriel (or a servant of the Lord) a human would have to have been involved [Joseph] because the ethereal cannot as a higher dimensional vibration drop down on command into physicality to impregnate a human. Its not possible/it has never happened. Joseph is the father of Jesus/as the Jewish Messiah, both Mary and Joseph carry through genetic lines the prophetic messianic blood line.


Punisher: first off it was not Gabriel it was the Holy Spirit, third person in the trinity.

No one knows this as fact. There is no truth the trinity impregnated Mary. There is no reasoning to prove "holy spirit" stepped down in vibration to impregnate a human being (its not possible); Joseph was the vehicle and meant to be so as Mary was of the house of David (Messiah construct).



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