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The fallacy of "electric" cars and what they should be called.

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posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 03:26 AM
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originally posted by: Edumakated
If green energy is viable, then the free market will develop it. The reason it hasn't taken off is because the cost relative to the effectiveness is simply not there for the vast majority of folks.


Renewable energy investments now beat fossil fuels worldwide. Companies and workers in countries investing in renewable energy will dominate the future: The International Energy Agency projects that the global clean energy market will total over $60 trillions in the next 2 decades.

Plus solar and wind power are now cheaper than fossil fuels (without subsidies).





originally posted by: gladtobehere
Are electric cars really "better for the environment"? Do they help to reduce our "dependency" on "foreign oil"?
Errrr, no.


Yes they are, most developed countries are using more and more renewable energy as it is the future. Also, let's post again what another American member has said, as it shows exactly why hybrid cars are a lot better for the environment:



originally posted by: Wildbob77
I have a rechargeable hybrid car.

My house has solar panels for electricity

When I charge at my house it is energy from the sun

Did you take that into account? How many households that have plug in cars have solar panels? My friend down the block does as well as me.

Just saying




posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 03:43 AM
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As other members have said they are nice as long as the metals used to make those batteries are not being mined in your area.

But I guess as long as thats not in your country that is OK.



posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 03:47 AM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf
As other members have said they are nice as long as the metals used to make those batteries are not being mined in your area.

But I guess as long as thats not in your country that is OK.





The technology will improve, it will become far cleaner than it is now, investment is the only barrier to this happening on a global scale.



posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 04:08 AM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Irishhaf
As other members have said they are nice as long as the metals used to make those batteries are not being mined in your area.

But I guess as long as thats not in your country that is OK.





The technology will improve, it will become far cleaner than it is now, investment is the only barrier to this happening on a global scale.


which is fine, then in the future when that has occurred people have a leg to stand on with the electric cars are so good for the environment.

Until then its a train wreck for the environment of the countries you get those metals from.



posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 04:26 AM
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a reply to: Irishhaf


I agree with you there, what bothers me is that if we do not change the way we get our energy we are screwed anyways, at least there is a glimmer of hope by changing to renewable energy with some sort of storage capacity.



posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 04:43 AM
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a reply to: gladtobehere


Don't if this has already been mentioned but in addition to the environmental running costs, the carbon footprint for pulling the raw materials out of the ground exceeds the carbon output savings over lifetime of the vehicle. In other words, the overall environmental impact of electric cars is far higher than that of combustible fuel vehicles.

Also, like everything manufactured over the past 3 decades, electric cars are designed with built in obsolescence and little recycle/re-purpose elements.



posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 06:29 AM
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a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Dont get me wrong, I am in favor of green energy and think more research should go into it to speed the process along.

But the electric car is a turd sandwich they are trying to pass off as steak at this point.

We are no where near ready to do away with coal and oil (especially oil) and we may not be ready in our life time.



posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 06:43 AM
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a reply to: Irishhaf


I felt the same way till I read This,the link takes you to my thread, read the linked article and tell me if you still think they are just turds.



posted on Sep, 6 2017 @ 10:55 AM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Dont get me wrong, I am in favor of green energy and think more research should go into it to speed the process along.

But the electric car is a turd sandwich they are trying to pass off as steak at this point.

We are no where near ready to do away with coal and oil (especially oil) and we may not be ready in our life time.


Part of the problem with electric cars is that manufacturers have not figured out how to market them well. The only two companies that have had any success have been Toyota with the Prius and Tesla.

There are a couple of issues:

1) Range: Convincing ignorant masses that range is not an issue. 99% of people do not need more than about 150 miles of range 99% of the time. Electric cars can easily do this. The typical daily commute for 99% of people is about 20-30 miles. Even on days where someone drives a lot, most are not driving 200 miles. The vast majority of people only need that kind of range when taking long road trips which for most people is probably a few times a year at most. They could easily just rent a gas car for such occasions. The reality is that range is not an issue. I'd bet 95% of tesla owners have a second car.

2) Styling: Car companies have forgotten that cars, especially in America with our open roads serve not only for commuting but are also an emotional attachment. Tesla figured this out with and have done a good job of showing the performance advantages of electric over combustion (100% torque, acceleration) in a package that looks like a normal car that is also attractive.

Tesla's model 3 should open door to more consumers.



posted on Sep, 6 2017 @ 12:46 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

The styling I agree with you on. Tesla have shown that electric cars can have real visual appeal.

if anything the structure of electric cars allows for more creative styling potential. The problem seems that for some manufacturers making the car look green seems to involve looking like a squashed bug.

Range however is still an issue. Best case ranges remain significantly less than petrol equivalent.

However this is less of an issue recharge time. Best technology at the moment still takes many times longer than the getting the same range a petrol pump.

The normal counter to this is for long journeys you would want a break anyway. This ignores two important points 1) I want to pick my break schedule not have my car do it 2) if I turn up at a petrol station and it's busy I only have to wait minutes at a charge station it could take hours.

For me renting a car is not a solution for multiple reasons. Don't live near rental place. Need kids seats etc.

Personally love electric cars but still a lot of technology limits to overcome to see really wide adoption.
edit on 6-9-2017 by ScepticScot because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 6 2017 @ 12:52 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

And there is still nothing remotely useful on the market for people that spend time away from cities, I like to hunt and fish and hike, that means I need a vehicle with a carrying capacity beyond a suitcase, and I need it to be able to handle mud and rocks and hills.

As stated we are no where close to being ready to do away with Internal combustion engines.

Also my main point is the environmental wreckage left behind when it comes to mining the metals needed for the batteries.



posted on Sep, 6 2017 @ 01:13 PM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Edumakated


Also my main point is the environmental wreckage left behind when it comes to mining the metals needed for the batteries.


As opposed to the environmental wreck caused by coal mining and oil and gas drilling? As well as their associated spills and everyday leakage? And let's not forget all the environmental damage caused by those product's transport- digging pipelines, building immense crude carrying ships. Lots of pollution in ship building- Mining metals, paint, etc.Not to mention the environmental affect of all the refining and distilling plants required to transform the raw materials into usable products.

Perhaps you should spend some time living next to a strip coal mine, or an oil well drilling site to gain perspective. There is plenty of damage to go around.



posted on Sep, 6 2017 @ 01:13 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Edumakated

The styling I agree with you on. Tesla have shown that electric cars can have real visual appeal.

if anything the structure of electric cars allows for more creative styling potential. The problem seems that for some manufacturers making the car look green seems to involve looking like a squashed bug.

Range however is still an issue. Best case ranges remain significantly less than petrol equivalent.

However this is less of an issue recharge time. Best technology at the moment still takes many times longer than the getting the same range a petrol pump.

The normal counter to this is for long journeys you would want a break anyway. This ignores two important points 1) I want to pick my break schedule not have my car do it 2) if I turn up at a petrol station and it's busy I only have to wait minutes at a charge station it could take hours.

For me renting a car is not a solution for multiple reasons. Don't live near rental place. Need kids seats etc.

Personally love electric cars but still a lot of technology limits to overcome to see really wide adoption.


Yes, but 99% of the time range is not an issue. Only about 8% of daily commuters drive more than 35 miles one way. Even if you assume 50 miles one way that is 100 miles round trip which is still less than 50% of the 200 mile or so range of a good electric car these days. This also assumes you wouldn't charge at work.

For the times that you need to do an extended road trip, I agree. Electric is not ready. However, in those cases, you can easily just rent a car. I probably take a greater than 200 mile trip in car maybe 2 or 3 times a year at most.

I've never thought electric would entirely replace gas. However, for the average commuter, there is zero reason it couldn't as prices come down. I've never believed electric was better for the environment at a macro level in terms of mining and power generation. However, at the individual level, it is far better. You'd need less gas stations locally. Gas spills. Noise pollution, etc.

For those that live out in the sticks, I am sure Tesla is working on a pickup truck or some equivalent.



posted on Sep, 7 2017 @ 03:38 AM
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a reply to: Montana

And where exactly did I say coal, oil and gas did not?

I and several others pointed out correctly that driving a hybrid or electric car does not make you a beacon to the environment, it might be cleaner here, but it left a mess somewhere else.



posted on Sep, 7 2017 @ 03:43 AM
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a reply to: Irishhaf

Does having a home PV system alter the balance? I mean, if you're using it to charge your batteries.


edit on 9/7/2017 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2017 @ 05:15 AM
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a reply to: Phage

*shrugs*

I would imagine home charging systems will be a necessity if you really want to make an electric car viable to a wider range of people.

But I have yet to see an electric vehicle that would fit what I need, or that can handle life as a working vehicle not just a commuting vehicle.



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