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Eating Meat is Unethical

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posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 06:19 PM
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originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: DeceptioVisus

5 acres of land is a lot of land to grow vegetables on.


Are you aware that not all land is suitable for crops? I already have 4 4'x10' beds where my only real flat land is. I recently installed 10 4'x10' beds terraced on a hillside to prevent soil erosion and allow me to water with rainwater and gravity.


This wasn't cheap when you account for the fence I also had to install around it.

I no till garden to protect the soil food web that is currently being destroyed by mono crop farming and chemical happy hobby gardener's. I like to protect the soil food web. There are millions of tiny arthropods, worms, fungus, and bacteria in the soil that have a symbiotic relationship with the plants we grow. The bacteria and fungus communicate directly with the plant trading nutrients for carbohydrates. Are these insects and and invertebrates okay to destroy when tilling or spraying chemicals?

Where is the line drawn? Are people using anti-bacterial soap, murderers?

I seed save, companion plant, compost, avoid plastic if I can, and do not use chemicals. I am trying to establish a fully sustainable farm. I make my own soap, deodorant, dish soap, laundry detergent, ect. I am a minimalist in every sense of the word but no matter how hard you try there will always be someone complaining.
edit on 23-12-2015 by DeceptioVisus because: typo

edit on 23-12-2015 by DeceptioVisus because: more typos




posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 06:19 PM
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a reply to: Puppylove


originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Scouse100

Sure you CAN but what suffering are you honestly preventing when you do so? We are a higher order mammal, whether we eat meat or vegetable matter, others die and suffer so that we may live.

So yes you have a choice, but in what way does that choice matter or change anything in the grand scheme of things?


Personally, I wish to inflict minimal suffering in sustaining myself, I still have a very long way to go. Every person that makes this choice makes a difference, better than doing nothing in my opinion. Don't forget that animals have to be fed on grain etc... which needs to be grown and livestock converts that feed rather inefficiently into edible fat and protein.



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 06:22 PM
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a reply to: Scouse100

Sure but do you then advocate for the extinction of livestock? Because that's where your way goes. Not saying it's necessarily the wrong way to go, just checking.



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 06:27 PM
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It's interesting... I've been thinking about vegetarianism lately. Even Veganism (I'm sure that's not a word)

We're natural herbivores as a species, right? I mean, it's obvious our meat eating days go back longer than we can imagine. But really, when we can get the nutrition we need outside of meat, it does make me wonder..

The thing is...The only reason i'd go veggie or vegan is NOT for ethical reasons but for health reasons. Granted, i'm not fully versed on the pros/cons of meat vs no meat vs vegan... But If I was to make the leap It wouldn't be for ethical reasons.

I naturally feel upset when I see videos of slaughtered animals and how some are kept/treat/killed. But really, when I order a vegetarian meal and the person next to me orders meat - what difference did I just make?

I think I'd be fairly happy to live in a meatless word, and I think I'd get by just fine.

But we don't. And someone, somewhere just ate a burger.
edit on 23-12-2015 by MrConspiracy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 06:29 PM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Scouse100

Sure but do you then advocate for the extinction of livestock? Because that's where your way goes. Not saying it's necessarily the wrong way to go, just checking.


Livestock only exist in the numbers they do because of intensive breeding to meet demand. If more folk going veggy leads to extinction of breeds this would be preferable to me than keeping them around just to enslave, kill and eat them yes.



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 06:31 PM
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originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Scouse100

Sure but do you then advocate for the extinction of livestock? Because that's where your way goes. Not saying it's necessarily the wrong way to go, just checking.


Livestock only exist in the numbers they do because of intensive breeding to meet demand. If more folk going veggy leads to extinction of breeds this would be preferable to me than keeping them around just to enslave, kill and eat them yes.


Fact of the matter is, there are a lot of them now. And if we stopped killing them for food now, there would be a serious issue due to the over breeding. So yeah, we're too far gone perhaps.



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 06:34 PM
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originally posted by: MrConspiracy
Fact of the matter is, there are a lot of them now. And if we stopped killing them for food now, there would be a serious issue due to the over breeding. So yeah, we're too far gone perhaps.

For a very short period...maybe.

The vast majority of our animals would be dead, within a season, without human intervention.



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 06:35 PM
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originally posted by: MrConspiracy

originally posted by: Scouse100

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Scouse100

Sure but do you then advocate for the extinction of livestock? Because that's where your way goes. Not saying it's necessarily the wrong way to go, just checking.


Livestock only exist in the numbers they do because of intensive breeding to meet demand. If more folk going veggy leads to extinction of breeds this would be preferable to me than keeping them around just to enslave, kill and eat them yes.


Fact of the matter is, there are a lot of them now. And if we stopped killing them for food now, there would be a serious issue due to the over breeding. So yeah, we're too far gone perhaps.


Unless it happens instantaneously (which it won't), then I don't think we have a problem there. Breeding will be reduced according to demand as the vast majority of livestock breeding is controlled.



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 06:40 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

Sorry, I was hungry.


I completely understand. You are forgiven



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 06:42 PM
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Why eat at all? If you eat vegetables, your killing produce! You don't think that brussel sprouts have consciousness?



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 07:05 PM
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a reply to: Scouse100

Hmmm, see I disagree there on the enslave part of that really. Well I do in some cases. Not all farms are monstrous in their treatment of cattle. Those that aren't, well, is debatable whether the cattle is better off without the fence and protection. We overemphasize freedom quite often. I have no doubt in my mind that my pets live a far better happier existence than they would as strays. But one could argue they are my prisoners.

There's a balance there, and extremes on both sides. I'm very pro-domestication. I think that animals that adapt to be a part of our society have made an evolutionary leap over those that do not. We humans are the only hope any life has for surviving this planet.

We're the only species with a chance at preventing massive meteoric extinction, and the only species with a chance of moving to the stars. The only species that come with us will be the ones we love as pets, the curiosities we admire, those we eat, and the stowaways who've mastered living under our gaze.

There are good livestock owners, good pet owners, and even zoos that have moved beyond the bland cages to ones where animals live a fully healthy life with many of the challenges they'd have in the wild with none of the risk.

At the same time there's abusive pet owners, old crappy zoos and circuses, and the livestock owners that if you believe the propaganda they all are.

To better help suffering, to truly reduce it, we need to promote positive domestication while criminalizing the negative kinds.

Humane farms should be advertised by those that say they care, instead of not eating meat these places should be bought from, and promoted to one's friends, while the inhumane ones should be ostracized and boycotted. Cattle are overproduced as it is, there's tons of meat waste. Not eating meat honestly just adds to the meat waste. It doesn't combat it.

These people think with their wallet, they keep these atrocious conditions because they can do so cheaply and efficiently and they have buyers and always will because meat tastes great. When you stop eating meat, they don't care because for every one vegan there's millions of meat lovers.

Now instead of swearing off meat, put money in the hands of their humane competitors, help these people with free advertising to help make up for the higher cost of their humane treatment, help give alternatives without extremes. Promote good meat eating, while bemoaning the bad. Help people to do good, without giving up meat, or calling them evil or unethical if they do. It would go a long way.

There are ethical ways to eat meat. That said, if you want you can follow your current thought to it's inevitable conclusion, where all humans to become vegan, were we to stop "enslaving" the animal kingdom and giving them a place in our lives, eventually they'd become so out of sight they'd become nothing but a nuisance.

If it weren't for our pets, our cattle, and the animals in our lives everyday, we truly would become a virus destroying all in our path.

There must be a healthy balance. I'm not saying we have it, we don't. But veganism isn't the way. Swearing off meat helps nothing, unless the end goal is a world where there's only humanity and the bare essentials.

Without our relying on animals for food, entertainment, and love there's no give and take, and I'm under no delusion the bulk of humanity is so kind we'll forgo a potentially symbiotic relationship with the animal kingdom to instead enter a parasitic one where we live as secondary citizens to the rest of the animal kingdom.

What we want is a symbiotic relationship. Which means those we eat get full healthy lives, ones where until the day of slaughter they are protected, cared for and loved. We want one where we have pets, that wow us with their antics, and shower us with the same love we provide them. Where as they tend our stress we tend to their physical and emotional wellbeing in kind. Where we have places where animals can be seen in safety to wonder and inspire awe in others to give that direct connection. Places where the animals are safe as are we the observers, but where the animals can play, forage for food, and engage in ways that fosters their emotional, mental and physical wellbeing.

What we don't want is a world where animals are to be avoided, to be kept out of sight and to not be a part of our lives. What we also do not want is a world where animals exist to be exploited and used, with emotional attachment to be disregarded.

Balance in all things.

My issue with vegans, is the extreme they fall into.

They neither seek nor understand balance they wouldn't know it. Is clear in the way they glorify the natural world with rose covered glasses, unwilling and incapable of seeing the darkness that fills our universe. Choosing to instead of seeing the universe true, deflect all that is bad and horrible onto mankind.
edit on 12/23/2015 by Puppylove because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 07:10 PM
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originally posted by: HUMBLEONE
You don't think that brussel sprouts have consciousness?


I hope they do because I typically taunt them before I sauté them up with some nice bacon lardons. It would make my black heart glow if I knew they were suffering beforehand.



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 08:06 PM
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a reply to: Son of Will

Not sure how eating meat can be called unethical...nor would eating a cheeseburger with bacon be aggressive. Plus, the roadkill could have died an aggressive death, some people aim to kill.

Deciding to go vegetarian or vegan is a personal choice. I was vegetarian for about 5 years but always felt like something was missing, and there was...meat


So I'll continue to eat meat, be thankful for the food chain and know that I'm not doing anything unethical.



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 08:26 PM
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originally posted by: Son of Will
This may sound outrageous, but in reality it is deceptively simple. All I need is one paragraph to make a 100% iron-tight argument. (Two caveats: first, by 'eat animals' I refer to the industry of keeping livestock or attacking animals for the purpose of consuming them or a byproduct of them. Roadkill is fair game. Second, those not living in a modern, Western society, without access to  the foods we take for granted, cannot be included. This is for the modern world. Anyone living in poverty must think of themselves and their loved ones first before other animals. I'm not advocating martyrdom.


Are you writing this from confusion and brain fatigue? They say that happens when you do not get the vitamins you need from meat. Sorry to see that.

Many Inuits live very healthy lives until old age on an only meat diet. Also considering their brains grow and become much more mentally stable then the average joe, if those who think eating meat is odd well its not. Most humans do not eat enough meat and therefore our brains shrink, this makes us ill. Eating meat will make you healthy, its a mixed diet that brings us down.

Inuit Lifestyle Lower Heart Disease Rate & Cancer



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 08:45 PM
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originally posted by: Son of Will
then it naturally follows that killing a sentient creature for its flesh is wrong, because it clearly constitutes unnecessary aggression.


What about killing vegetables for their flesh, that is just as wrong, actually worse, as vegetables cannot run away from you.


It is fundamentally unethical.


Then so is eating vegetables.


Eating meat is deeply ingrained into us.


That is because it is good for you, and tastes delicious.


Long before our rational brains developed,


That was as a result of eating meat!


We're smart enough, and mature enough, to trash these training wheels that are keeping us from really flying as a species.


That is why most people have gotten rid of the training wheels, and eat meat.


as we slowly shake off our immature and self-destructive habits,


Most people have done that, and thus eat meat.



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 08:48 PM
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originally posted by: MrConspiracy
We're natural herbivores as a species, right?


No, we are naturally omnivores.



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 09:12 PM
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originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: MrConspiracy
We're natural herbivores as a species, right?


No, we are naturally omnivores.


Humans have canine teeth.

Why is it even questioned?



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 10:06 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: MrConspiracy
We're natural herbivores as a species, right?


No, we are naturally omnivores.


Humans have canine teeth.

Why is it even questioned?

Because they're not as big as a dogs... blah blah blah.



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 10:08 PM
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originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: MrConspiracy
We're natural herbivores as a species, right?


No, we are naturally omnivores.


Humans have canine teeth.

Why is it even questioned?

Because they're not as big as a dogs... blah blah blah.


Carnivore vs omnivore.



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 10:09 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: MrConspiracy
We're natural herbivores as a species, right?


No, we are naturally omnivores.


Humans have canine teeth.

Why is it even questioned?


I know.

Some people don't; I was just explaining that an ignorant question is based on an ignorant assumption.
Because they're not as big as a dogs... blah blah blah.


Carnivore vs omnivore.


I know, I was explaining that an ignorant question is based on an ignorant assumption.
edit on 12/23/2015 by eNumbra because: (no reason given)




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