Eating Meat is Unethical

originally posted by: saadad
a reply to: Son of Will

Same here. I stop eating meat and all other crap in my 34 and I m angry that I didn't have the knowledge and will to do it before.

I was just like all those sheep's in this topic talking about meat and trust me much worse.

So stay on the path and remember not anyone is able to stop eating meat and other advertised TV crap. Some people are breed to consume that and we just need to accept that. Because if we all stop eating meat world will collapse. Meat industry will die, people will lose jobs, people will live longer and that will only make more sheep's on the planet. And elite will find some other crap to sell to that sheep's.

Good post but don't make people turn to no meat diet. Someone need to consume crap, so we can eat real food.

Right. I do believe though that most people have compassion, they love their dogs and cats and if they look, let themselves look they would care about what is happening to the rest.

I once shot a duck (they mate for life) the mate came round and would not leave so I shot her too. I also wish I had learned sooner.

a reply to: andy06shake

Just had 12 Pis in blankets.
so op you ever going today address my points in this thread or not?.

a reply to: SeaWorthy
You posted:

Dr Victor Herbert reported in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (1998, Volume 48) that only 0.00000035 ounces (1 microgram) of vitamin B12 is required per day. These minimum vitamin requirements may be inadequate to explain the needs of a healthy raw food vegan, for example, who may require less B12 due to an improved gastric ability and a high ability to recycle vitamin B12. (Cooking destroys microbes and a highly sterilised, cooked vegan diet may not provide the intestines with enough good quality flora). Absorption rates of B12 are higher in healthy individuals than in unhealthy individuals. Studies, based on healthy Indian vegetarian villagers, showed that none of them exhibited symptoms of B12 deficiency, despite levels of .3-.5 micrograms of B12.

and....

Among the many controversies surrounding vitamin B12, there is the argument that, although intrinsic factor is produced in our stomachs and that our intestines are known to produce vitamin B12, the bacteria is produced too low down in the intestines and cannot be absorbed by our bodies. This argument is sadly still hanging around, however, according to Dr Vetrano, it was disproved by research over 20 years ago and is nothing more than an obsolete scientific theory. Indeed, in a 1999 version of 'Human Anatomy and Physiology' by Marieb, it states quite clearly that we do indeed absorb vitamin B12 through our intestines.

I have the Anatomy and Physiology by Marieb, the 2014 edition (one of the books I own as I use them all the time due to my profession). Whilst it is true that it does say that vitamin B12 is absorbed in the intestines, what your link fails to specify is that it is absorbed in the terminal Ileum (small intestine), this is on pg 963 of the Marieb book.


Our large intestine has a specific type of bacteria that produces B12, but it is too low in the digestive tract to be absorbed and it just goes down with faeces. Which means that our production of B12 is useless as we can only absorb it further up in the digestive tract (in the terminal ileum).

The absorption of vitamin B12 is extremely complicated and it includes about 30 enzimes. Lactobacillusreuteri is a bacteria naturally found in our intestines and it produces B12. Here is a good peer reviewed article that explains the process: LINK

This that you have said:

Untrue, I know vegans who have lived a life of health on works for Kashi as a health expert, never taken a supplement.

I doubt it, I have seen many vegans with a serious deficiency. This is from Marieb (seeing as it was the book mentioned in your link):

"As you might expect, lack of vitamin B12 in the diet also leads to anemia. However, this is usually a problem only in strict vegetarians because meats, poultry and fish provide ample vitamin B12 in the diet of non-vegetarians."

And we need 2.4ug of B12 daily, 1ug is not enough. LINK.


a reply to: Xtrozero

Don't worry GMO will save the world and cows...

"We have identified the DNA that controls the production of the vitamin B12 binding protein in humans. By means of genetic modification, we have transferred this DNA to a plant that we have cultivated in a green house afterwards", says Erik Østergaard, Professor at Aarhus University.

I can't understand how, could you please link the article? Thank you

if eating meat is "unethical" why would god make bacon so delicious... now im hungry

originally posted by: boymonkey74

Just had 12 Pis in blankets.
so op you ever going today address my points in this thread or not?.

I only had two, but enough turkey, potatoes, bacon and Brussel sprouts to last me a week! lol
Merry Christmas!

a reply to: Agartha

Human body is magnificent machine. We still don't know how can human body adapt or change to different environments.

That why we have superhumans who can be without breath for 20 minutes, who can be naked on -10 celzious for hours.

Yes ordinary human who consumes other crap needs vitamins. That why some bad vegans have problems, but they are nowhere near the problems meateaters have.

But if you live healthy and eat only real food you don't really need any supplements.

There are vegan born children who never eat meat and have none problems. Actually they are more healthier than kids that eat junk food.

Because most vegan children would not eat all that garbage crap they see on TV and TV is full of crap candies.

originally posted by: saadad
There are vegan born children who never eat meat and have none problems. Actually they are more healthier than kids that eat junk food.

Because most vegan children would not eat all that garbage crap they see on TV and TV is full of crap candies.

I agree that children should not eat junk food, but it is not healthy for children to be vegan: many have B12 deficiency, hypotonia (decreased muscle tone), and bone lenghts and weights below the third percentile. Children on an ovo-lacto-vegetarian diet did not present those problems, only those on vegan or macrobiotic diets (LINK

a reply to: Agartha

You are poor at reading. Study was done on 400 kids, big sample and not all had problems. Also check reference, from 30+ year old research.

I suggest you to check study for meat linked to cancer. Milk linked to calcium deficiency. Those are from 2014 and 2015.

Also in your link they talk about vegans that abuse they children, but I ask you where are those child services when parent feed his child with meat garbage that increase kids chances for cancer or where are those services when kids get leukemia, cancer and other illnesses linked to meat? What, those kids were not lucky? Nobody is responsible?

I don't defend any parent that abuse they kid on whatever way. But I know many parents who buy cheap meat and highly processed crap meat and feed they poor children with that.

The Christmas prime rib that I am making is going to taste great. Nice and bloody with some hot German horseradish. Yum! ~$heopleNation

I only eat meat once a month, and it's all i need. I think the problems that come with ingesting 'too much meat' which many people tend to do is what creates problems such as colon cancer heart disease, exema and other skin problems etc. due to the fact that not all people have regular bowel movements (a squattie potty may be one answer to that little problem), but i feel it's mainly due to parasites which tend to live in meats. Black green walnut hull is good for that along with cloves for healing, and many people have cured themselves using these time proven methods.

As for Older Religious Cultures not wanting meats or certain meats. They also didn't have refrigeration back then to prevent bacterial overload.

and for the religious of the Xian faith, i believe Jesus did say to Peter x3 times in fact to 'go kill and eat' showing him all manner of beasts on a floating cloud/ sheet.

there.. done.

As for processed Meat, no it's not good for anyone i agree. But it's a little hard for the average American to just go out and shoot their dinner cut it up and cook it. And McDonalds along with other establisments lure people into believing it's all good. There's really little anyone can do about the quality of their food unless they have the kind of money they need to buy Only Organic.

originally posted by: NautPsycho
Eat meat with no spices and tell me if it's still yummy. In its natural state it's foul # to the tongue.

It's still yummy sans seasoning. Your taste buds are broken. Or you're buying crap.
Any good quality meat from a well & properly fed animal can taste fab without herbs, spices and salt. I've had plain hamburgers with nothing added that were fantastic. My husband has slow-baked roasts with nothing on them that were fantastic. I've even roasted ducks & chickens with not one thing added, and they turned out great. If the meat tastes like s# to you, you're buying s#tty meat. Period. Spring for the free-range, natural diet animal sources, there's a huge difference in quality compared to salt solution injected factory farm meat.

And for what it's worth, if veggies tasted good by themselves, no one would bury the majority of them in salt, butter or cheese, either, so good luck with your argument there.

you said

Even if we convince ourselves that other animals are not sentient/capable of suffering, that doesn't change the fact that we humans are inherently empathetic creatures (besides the textbook psychopaths, that is), and causing harm to another creates a cathartic effect in which we experience that suffering, and end up internalizing it. .

i say

Even if we convince ourselves that other PLANTS are not sentient/capable of suffering, that doesn't change the fact that we humans are inherently empathetic creatures (besides the textbook psychopaths, that is), and causing harm to another creates a cathartic effect in which we experience that suffering, and end up internalizing it.

why do people insist plants are less alive than animals? next time you eat a tomato, think of all the tomato seeds--TINY INFANT PLANTS-- you just ate. how many souls died to fill your salad?

if you want to eat ethically, make sure your food had a good life before it was eaten. reduce suffering in the process. or better yet, eat wild foods that never expected us to be nice to them. (deer are never surprised that we want to eat them. cows? i'm pretty sure they're surprised.) if you intend to live a life that causes no harm, eating anything is unethical. learn to minimize harm by ensuring that domestic animals AND plants grow in healthy environments and do not encroach on native habitats. so factory farmed almonds are unethical too. permaculture involves plants and animals grown for food in a balanced way. cattle ranches (not feed lots) are FAR more biologically diverse than a corn field, but that advantage gets negated as soon as you feed the cows corn.

you should use your very positive and honorable passion to fight problems like monsanto instead.

originally posted by: NautPsycho
Eat meat with no spices and tell me if it's still yummy. In its natural state it's foul # to the tongue. Preaching to ATS about eating meat? You'll get out dated programmed beliefs thrown at you, bacon jokes, false claims about us being omnivores, what about b12, what about protein, everything in moderation, Manson was Vegetarian, etc. Just remember when you were deep in the meat game and someone coming to you saying you shouldn't eat that well seasoned slab of meat, you'd go all dairy farmers loyal shoe shiner on people. Eating meat is in fact unethical considering the replacement products, how cancer causing, cell damaging it is, horrible for the planet but hey what would we do without bacon? This is no Vegan friendly site that's for sure. Open minded people about a flying rat reptilian moth man cat alien worm but let you say how terrible eating animal flesh is and you will get bashed with lame science. Preach on though, for those still open to the truth.

Anyone who has to hide the flavour of meat has no business eating it. Go live with the vegans..!!

There's nothing better than a fresh, natural, fatty, juicy steak, cooked on a sizzling BBQ and eaten as is.

The way god intended it to be eaten and enjoyed.

a reply to: Son of Will
Normally I'd reply to threads like this but I need to fire up the BBQ.

originally posted by: BobaFettish

originally posted by: NautPsycho
Eat meat with no spices and tell me if it's still yummy. In its natural state it's foul # to the tongue. Preaching to ATS about eating meat? You'll get out dated programmed beliefs thrown at you, bacon jokes, false claims about us being omnivores, what about b12, what about protein, everything in moderation, Manson was Vegetarian, etc. Just remember when you were deep in the meat game and someone coming to you saying you shouldn't eat that well seasoned slab of meat, you'd go all dairy farmers loyal shoe shiner on people. Eating meat is in fact unethical considering the replacement products, how cancer causing, cell damaging it is, horrible for the planet but hey what would we do without bacon? This is no Vegan friendly site that's for sure. Open minded people about a flying rat reptilian moth man cat alien worm but let you say how terrible eating animal flesh is and you will get bashed with lame science. Preach on though, for those still open to the truth.

Anyone who has to hide the flavour of meat has no business eating it. Go live with the vegans..!!

There's nothing better than a fresh, natural, fatty, juicy steak, cooked on a sizzling BBQ and eaten as is.

The way god intended it to be eaten and enjoyed.

After reading that I'm hungry again I ate so much goose, roasters, stuffing and sausages in bacon yesterday I thought I would never be able to eat another thing, ever, but the description of that unadulterated steak sure did the job!

originally posted by: DeceptioVisus
This is a little late but I thought it was appropriate given previous posts about bacon. Just brought these home yesterday from my friends smoke house.

I agree with the OP that Dr. Colin Campbell's advice and his book the China Study are very telling. I believe that the diseases he associates with affluent animal protein eating cultures has validity and should be further researched.

With that being said, there is just one flaw. Neither I nor anyone I know would be considered affluent, yet animal protein is the most affordable source of sustenance. Do you know how expensive non-chemically grown fruits and vegetables are? I recently killed, skinned, and butchered a pasture raised hog which netted a little under 200lbs of natural organic protein for $135. This will feed me for almost a year. It nearly filled a large stand up freezer. I saved the bones for my dogs and rendered the fat for soap and cooking trying to use as much of the animal as possible.

Until you can provide affordable organic vegetables, seeds, and fruits then it seems animal protein is more of a thing for the poor. If we are activating free radicals into cancer or fertilizing already existing cancer cells with growth hormones in animal protein as Dr. Campbell suggests then I guess that's the way it is. I can't make money appear. Either way, if Dr. Campbell is right I will die from cancer slower than starvation. Which avenue of death is more painful is subjective and debatable.

Have a nice day.

It is cheaper to eat a plant-based diet from every meausure. If you are comparing organic produce to organic meat, that is.
www.takepart.com...


It all depends though - if you're on a budget, plant foods like rice and beans, carrots, celery, potatoes, peppers, tomatoes, etc. These can all be found, organic, for a dollar a pound if not cheaper. Compare that with any meat, of any quality.

originally posted by: BobbyRock

Swedish "Julskinka" (Christmas Ham)

Happy Holidays/Merry Christmas Everyone!

Glorifying the slaughter of animals, while insulting vegans for "hurting plants"

Way to embrace ignorance. Such an embarrassment to this site...

a reply to: Son of Will

Attempting to berate others for eating meat from such a high horse isn't?.
Again we are doing their species a favor by eating them...do you really think cows would be numbered in the billions if not eaten or used for other things?.
Face facts If we all went vegan many animals would only exist in zoos.

originally posted by: UniFinity
are we really natural meat eaters or is this just old school mambo jambo propaganda?

first google the china food study. The biggest experiment about diet till date. More than enough evidence. If you want more, than read these links. Our body is NOT design for meat. This was just old B# which persisted till today. Maybe it is time to reconsider this argument. You trust in science after all, right? Than read the links.

michaelbluejay.com...
mindfullybliss.com...
vegaprocity.com...
freefromharm.org...

oh and also this.

enjoy your meat if you want. But to say that this is our natural diet is ignorant if you take all factors into account. We are creatures of desires and desire for meat taste is not easy to get rid off and why should you, right? everyone dies after all...
Well I don't know for you, but I would like to live more than 100 healthy years. : )

About plants feeling pain?
yes they are feeling it. But we must eat something. Killing an animal or a plant is different. Or are you saying that you would feel the same if you butcher a living animal or if you pluck the plant? Or would you let your kids watch or do the butchering of the animals or rather let them pluck plants?...i thought so. Case closed.

Nice response.

Although there is actually no data to suggest plants feel pain - but since that's a catchy phrase, "Plants feel pain!" media have had a field day using that. Even some scientists use such wording, probably for the same reasons.

What the science actually shows is that all life will defend itself, using extremely fine-tuned chemical response mechanisms. Our skin cells do the same thing. But in order for us humans to "feel" anything at all requires a nervous system to transmit signals, and a brain to interpret those signals. Every phenomena in the plant kingdom can be explained as chemical responses. Consciousness and awareness (the domain of animals), however, cannot be.