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Eating Meat is Unethical

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posted on Dec, 25 2015 @ 04:18 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: SeaWorthy

Given that we ourselves are big animals ... is it entirely ethical to do all we can to extend our own lifespans?

So perhaps it is more ethical to eat meat after all. Not only are removing animals that burn through water, but we are also removing ourselves and WE burn through water too.



Humans aren't parasites. We're more like a species of immature Gods, unsure of how to properly use our birthright. Anything we can dream of, can be achieved. Our potential is limitless.

That's the context I'm trying to work with and convey. Our species is better than this. Our culture is filled with obsolete ways of living which don't have to be.

"Luminous beings are we! Not this crude matter."
edit on 12 25 2015 by Son of Will because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 25 2015 @ 04:22 AM
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Interesting responses re What are you eating cooking for Xmas ... A lot of Turkey's will be wiping their brows "Phew"


I am working Xmas day on a last minute commission for New Year ... so easy on the grog for me



posted on Dec, 25 2015 @ 04:29 AM
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a reply to: Son of Will

Same here. I stop eating meat and all other crap in my 34 and I m angry that I didn't have the knowledge and will to do it before.

I was just like all those sheep's in this topic talking about meat and trust me much worse.

So stay on the path and remember not anyone is able to stop eating meat and other advertised TV crap. Some people are breed to consume that and we just need to accept that. Because if we all stop eating meat world will collapse. Meat industry will die, people will lose jobs, people will live longer and that will only make more sheep's on the planet. And elite will find some other crap to sell to that sheep's.

Good post but don't make people turn to no meat diet. Someone need to consume crap, so we can eat real food.



posted on Dec, 25 2015 @ 04:32 AM
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originally posted by: Blazemore2000
Millions of years of evolution can't be wrong...

Meat is delicious for a reason.


I suggest reading the following article. It *strongly* suggests that humans are physiologically adapted for an almost exclusively plant-based diet.

www.scribd.com...

Which makes sense - we were primates for tens of millions of years, living in tropical jungles, eating mostly nuts, seeds, fruit, plants, roots and tubers, and insects. There was occasional meat eating but it was exceedingly rare. If there is such an abundance of food that doesn't run away when you try eating it, that will be obviously preferable.
Regular hunting didn't happen until much later down the line. We made some partial adaptations for eating meat, but we are still primarily herbivorous, from a physiological point of view.
edit on 12 25 2015 by Son of Will because: (no reason given)

edit on 12 25 2015 by Son of Will because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 25 2015 @ 04:36 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: purplemer

They might have thought out their opinion, but they presented it as fact.

That's mostly what so many are objecting to.



Wrong. I presented an argument based on facts. Everything that I implied was a fact is so.

Instead of implying I'm wrong, you need to show it.

So far, not a single criticism has held up to even mild scrutiny.

Put up or shut up.



posted on Dec, 25 2015 @ 04:36 AM
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So eating meat is unethical now?

Damn.

Still, getting ready to unethically cook my turkey, gammon and pork belly. As well as the unethically cooked vegetables.

I'm sure it will taste unethically good and will give me all the nutrients I need for the day.

Already made my mouth water.



posted on Dec, 25 2015 @ 04:39 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: Krazysh0t




All I need is one sentence to counter all of that. Meat is delicious


We dont have to be cave men anymore...


I'm all for treating animals "humanely" before we slaughter them, but I will not be ashamed of my love of dead flesh. I don't care how liberal I become. Let my kids all become vegetarians. I want to eat meat.



That's what every current vegan once said.




posted on Dec, 25 2015 @ 04:39 AM
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originally posted by: Son of Will
So far, not a single criticism has held up to even mild scrutiny.

Put up or shut up.


OK, here's one: WHO CARES WHETHER YOU FIND IT ETHICAL OR NOT? Nobody needs to satisfy your own ethics outside of yourself. The rest of us are sentient beings who will form our own paths with or without your opinion, friend. Now excuse me while I go chow down a couple of pieces of smoked salmon jerky before I retire for the evening.



posted on Dec, 25 2015 @ 04:44 AM
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originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: SeaWorthy




A vegetarian eats eggs and sometimes milk and cheese as a vegetarian you are missing nothing compared to a meat eating diet.


wrong and youre missing a LOT compared to a meat protein based diet........im sorry are you a nutritionist? Because this statement is a flat out lie




If you search you will see hundreds of them. I am 6.2 and in great health my personal reasons for making the change we about the planet as a whole and about the disgusting things I know as I was a butcher for many years and fish processor. The parasites and the tumors and the unspeakable things people are eating unknowingly.


yeah i can google a lot of things , but telling you from personal experience and having a borther in law who IS a nutritionist and also trains competition body builders I can tell you the differences are HUGE...




You can't filet a fish without pulling out the worms, do people know this in general?


Ummm where the hell are you fishing? Ive found worms maybe 4 or 5 times in all the times ive bee fishing and you just throw the fish away.......

99% of the time you find nothing of the sort.......

I feel like all of your experiences are anacdotal because none of this has happened to me and im an avid outdoorsman



The existence of millions of long-term vegans, thriving on their diets, many of whom are just as active as you are (google fruitarian athletes - yeah, even that is possible to live sustainably in the long term), firmly disproves your argument here.

Or are you some kind of genetic anomaly? Which is fine, they're out there. But more seriously: if scientific evidence is your bag, as it should be, then I challenge you. Name a single nutrient that you think vegans lack, and I wager I can show you science that says the opposite.



posted on Dec, 25 2015 @ 04:45 AM
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I appreciate your sentiments expressed quite well, Son of Will.
However, I have to say, that I could make a compelling case that eating vegetables, or eating at all, for that matter, is unethical.

Why must we eat, anyway? When you think too hard about it, it seems we are stuck in a situation, control loop, where we must eat, take other energy and life, in order to just subsist, survive. I hate that about this paradigm, and don't really accept or believe that it's the only way, or that it was always this way.

However, I do accept that I must live within certain parameters, no matter how difficult/unethical/against my philosophy of living they are…..it is what I must do to carry on, hereabouts.

It seems to me the challenge here, may be, learning to live within the "rules" we don't choose, here, as unethical as we may find them, and survive the punishment all around for it, while still maintaining some kind of integrity…..

paradoxical and almost impossible, but there it is.
tetra
happy holidays



posted on Dec, 25 2015 @ 04:51 AM
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originally posted by: Vroomfondel
You can categorize life on earth with dentistry. There are creatures with sharp teeth. There are creatures with flat teeth. There are creatures with no teeth. There are creatures with both sharp and flat teeth. There is also a hierarchy referred to as the food chain.

Creatures with no teeth absorb nutrients. These creatures are food for the higher levels of no teeth creatures. Think worms and birds. Natural.

There are creatures with flat teeth. Flat teeth eat grass and leaves. Flat teeth creatures aren't particularly smart creatures. You don't have to be smart to hunt grass.

There are creatures with sharp teeth. Sharp teeth creatures eat flat teeth creatures. Sharp teeth creatures are generally smarter than flat teeth creatures because they must hunt the flat teeth creatures.

There are creatures with both sharp and flat teeth, omnivores. Omnivores eat both the sharp teeth and the flat teeth creatures as well as the plants and no teeth creatures they feed on. Omnivores are the smartest of all and reside at the top of the food chain.

Nature and evolution do not equip us with features we do not need, nor does it allow us to maintain them. We have sharp teeth. We are intended to eat the flat teeth creatures. It is natures way.

ps - because bacon


Counter argument here: www.scribd.com...

And that is all beside the point of the OP. Because you can easily thrive on an exclusively plant-based diet, this is about choice. Ethics.

Animals can suffer. Unnecessary aggression is unethical. Enslaving/slaughtering another sentient creature is unnecessary aggression. Therefore unethical. (Or just re-read the OP, it's properly elaborated there)

Your turn.



posted on Dec, 25 2015 @ 04:57 AM
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a reply to: Son of Will

The problem with your whole argument about how unethical it is is ethics itself.

Here's a perfect example. Most would say to kill someone is unethical. But most would also agree that to kill someone in self defence or family defence is ok.

Ethics are about what's right and what's wrong. A lot of ethics are on a personal level (notice I didn't say all?).

You yourself believe it is unethical to eat meat. Most disagree as to them (and myself) it isn't unethical.

It is purely a personal choice and nothing more.



posted on Dec, 25 2015 @ 05:03 AM
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originally posted by: Son of Will

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
You can categorize life on earth with dentistry. There are creatures with sharp teeth. There are creatures with flat teeth. There are creatures with no teeth. There are creatures with both sharp and flat teeth. There is also a hierarchy referred to as the food chain.

Creatures with no teeth absorb nutrients. These creatures are food for the higher levels of no teeth creatures. Think worms and birds. Natural.

There are creatures with flat teeth. Flat teeth eat grass and leaves. Flat teeth creatures aren't particularly smart creatures. You don't have to be smart to hunt grass.

There are creatures with sharp teeth. Sharp teeth creatures eat flat teeth creatures. Sharp teeth creatures are generally smarter than flat teeth creatures because they must hunt the flat teeth creatures.

There are creatures with both sharp and flat teeth, omnivores. Omnivores eat both the sharp teeth and the flat teeth creatures as well as the plants and no teeth creatures they feed on. Omnivores are the smartest of all and reside at the top of the food chain.

Nature and evolution do not equip us with features we do not need, nor does it allow us to maintain them. We have sharp teeth. We are intended to eat the flat teeth creatures. It is natures way.

ps - because bacon


Counter argument here: www.scribd.com...

And that is all beside the point of the OP. Because you can easily thrive on an exclusively plant-based diet, this is about choice. Ethics.

Animals can suffer. Unnecessary aggression is unethical. Enslaving/slaughtering another sentient creature is unnecessary aggression. Therefore unethical. (Or just re-read the OP, it's properly elaborated there)

Your turn.


Who is to say plants do not suffer, my friend?
And we, definitively, suffer, without the act of taking nourishment, either way.
regards,
tetra



posted on Dec, 25 2015 @ 05:19 AM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: purplemer
There are no nutrients lacking from a vegan diet.. Al you need can be obtained from vegetables are fruit. It takes a little while to learn and for your body to get use to it.



O'Rly?
www.theveganrd.com...

An effort to prove that a whole foods vegan diet is the ideal or foolproof diet of all humans gives rise to all kinds of potentially harmful myths. These include the unfounded position that vegans can meet vitamin B12 needs by consuming unwashed organic produce, or that we have lower calcium needs than omnivores, or that it’s been “proven” that no one needs long chain omega-3 fats in their diet.
If these claims make vegan diets look easy and ideal, but they jeopardize health—well, that just seems like a pretty poor trade-off.


This article is from a vegan, for vegans, admitting that the idea that all required nutrients can be obtained straight from fruit and veggies is a myth.

Now, aside from Vitamin D, I don't take any supplements and have no deficiencies. The Vitamin D I take is from September to May and is because I live so far North that the sun doesn't reach high enough in the sky to provide the ultraviolet B rays needed for my skin to produce the vitamin naturally, it has nothing to do with diet.


This is a good response. It deserves some attention IMO.

It's true that most sources you find online suggest vegans are iodine deficient. But despite the cautionary tone of these websites, there are in fact many good plant sources of iodine. And, there are dangers to getting too much so recommending everyone take supplements is downright dangerous. This article covers the field nicely: Dietary Iodine
There was a study, the Boston study, which looked at about 150 people in total and found that was indeed the case. A decent pilot study, good for framing future studies on the subject, but far from conclusive. We know that produce grown in nutrient-rich soil provides adequate levels of iodine, so the problem is not vegan diets, but a far more pervasive problem - the steady depletion of the nutrient quality of our soil.

So the real story here is that everyone - vegans and nonvegans - are at risk for a wide range of nutrient deficiencies because of depleted soil quality.

On that note I HIGHLY recommend looking into permaculture.

A bit off-topic but this video is mind-blowing:



posted on Dec, 25 2015 @ 05:31 AM
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To hell with you vegans.

I have a turkey to eat



Enjoy your tofu and egg plant I have REAL food to eat!



posted on Dec, 25 2015 @ 05:39 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: purplemer

I do. So I'll also post this here in response.

Do plants feel pain?


According to researchers at the Institute for Applied Physics at the University of Bonn in Germany, plants release gases that are the equivalent of crying out in pain. Using a laser-powered microphone, researchers have picked up sound waves produced by plants releasing gases when cut or injured. Although not audible to the human ear, the secret voices of plants have revealed that cucumbers scream when they are sick, and flowers whine when their leaves are cut [source: Deutsche Welle].

There's also evidence that plants can hear themselves being eaten. Researchers at the University of Missouri-Columbia found that plants understand and respond to chewing sounds made by caterpillars that are dining on them. As soon as the plants hear the noises, they respond with several defense mechanisms [source: Feinberg].


Remember. Plants are alive too.


Touche

But there are a couple reasons why that doesn't really fly. First, look at the studies, and look at what was actually found: that there is a degree of intelligence woven into the fabric of all life.

But you'll find that our skin cells respond much the same way. There is a whole universe of sub-cellular activity, and when it dies or is threatened, a whole flurry of chemical activity takes place to defend itself. But you don't feel that. In fact, all you need to be numbed from the *experience of pain* is a mild anesthetic. Does that prevent those skin cells from trying to defend themselves chemically? Of course not.

The experience of pain requires a nervous system to transmit signals, and a brain to *process* and make sense of such signals. Plants have no such apparati, by definition. They are alive of course, and will go to tremendous lengths to defend themselves, but they are not capable of self-awareness. No evidence has suggested that.

It's an interesting discussion, but this is more of a hyped issue, good for buzz headlines, that doesn't really hold water upon scrutiny.

***
Sorry for not getting back to the thread earlier. It's been a busy week. I promise I'll get back to everyone who's contributed.

And Merry Xmas! Go easy on the meat. It's really bad for you.


For your health!,

edit on 12 25 2015 by Son of Will because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 25 2015 @ 05:41 AM
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a reply to: Son of Will

"quantum walk" awareness, by virtue of Penrose and Hammeroff.
Not so sure, about all that.


This is by taking the Orch OR (Orchestrated Objective Reduction) hypothesis of Hameroff and Penrose1 as a starting point. The Orch OR hypothesis, which is based in quantum physics, proposes that, when a sufficient mass of tubulin molecules has assembled into cytoskeletal microtubules (MTs) within neuronal cells of the brain, these structures become sites of quantum computation and of quantum state reduction (OR) events resulting in moments of protoconsciousness. Because plant cells also have large populations of MTs, and because plant MTs share properties with those of animal neuronal MTs, which putatively orchestrate OR events, plant MTs might also be sites of quantum reduction events and, hence, lead to momentary protoconsciousness. The extent to which the Orch OR hypothesis is applicable to plants is examined, and it is argued that, within the plant body, the most likely tissue where OR events could be located and promote protoconsciousness is to be found in the system of ray cells of tree trunks in which bundled MTs and actin filaments are prevalent. A single complete ray complex is estimated to contain about as many tubulin molecules as a single human cerebral neuron.
LINK
tetra
edit on 25-12-2015 by tetra50 because: additions



posted on Dec, 25 2015 @ 07:19 AM
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a reply to: okrian




There isn't one argument for eating meat that is viable. It's not economic, it's not good health-wise (in general), it wouldn't make sense from an evolutionary standpoint (all our close relatives are herbivores)


Why stop there...
There isn't one argument for appreciating art that is viable. It's not economic, it's not good eyesight wise (in general), it wouldn't make sense from an evolutionary standpoint (all our close relatives are non artistic animals)

And like meat art gives man pleasure, should we ban art...how about religion, ban that as well as there is no direct economic benefit. Ban museums, ban architectural style and variety.

I'll eat meat, you eat tofu or some other pretend meat, you do know about the downside of being strictly vegetarian dont you?



posted on Dec, 25 2015 @ 07:34 AM
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a reply to: ManBehindTheMask




I had a huge loss of energy, my strength training went way down, my endurance went way down, even my muscle mass went way down...


You're right. Eating less protein reduces your libido, hence I think there is a bit of a depopulation agenda in stigmatizing meat.

You want to stop your male children having children or growing breasts, nothing like plenty of soy milk to shrink their testicles



Phytoestrogens
en.wikipedia.org...
Phytoestrogens are plant-derived xenoestrogens (see estrogen) not generated within the endocrine system but consumed by eating phytoestrogenic plants. Also called "dietary estrogens", they are a diverse group of naturally occurring nonsteroidal plant compounds that, because of their structural similarity with estradiol (17-β-estradiol), have the ability to cause estrogenic or/and antiestrogenic effects,[1] by sitting in and blocking receptor sites against estrogen.



posted on Dec, 25 2015 @ 07:41 AM
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a reply to: Scouse100




Vbites celebration roast,
'

Why firstly would you need to emulate something that is so bad for you.....I know why.....because you prefer this chemical cocktail
VBites
www.vbitesfoods.com...

QUICK OVERVIEW
IngredientsWater, Wheat Gluten, Rapeseed Oil, Non-hydrogenated Vegetable Fat (sustainable palm), Soya Protein, Textured Wheat Protein, potato starch, Wheat Fibre, Salt, Wholemeal Wheat Rusk, Maltodextrin, Natural Flavourings, Dried Yeast, Herbs, Wheat Flour, Sugar, Yeast Extract, Preservative: Potassium Sorbate, Onion Powder, thickeners: Methyl Cellulose, carrageenan; Malt Extract, Herb & Spice Extracts, Garlic Powder, Dried Sage, colour: iron oxide, Black Pepp



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