Turkey ‘officially acknowledges’ attack on Su-24 was a planned step - Russian MoD

a reply to: uncommitted

Yes Russian insider is the place where the opinion piece was posted but not the only place .Yes it takes a pro-Russian look at what went down at the UN in passing the articles and the resolution . Do you think that the only positive actions can only come from western influence ? The ME has been a big mess sense the US went in with boots on the ground .Now that Lybia has been destroyed there is talk about sending boots in there too . The west seems to have a plan but it seems to be a very bad one .

Looking at what someone else has to say on the matter sometimes can paint a picture that makes more sense and reconciles the picture on the ground with what we are not being told . In the end its just news by different people that may trying to paint their own picture of what they think is happening . We were told by the western MSM that because we were going to liberate those countries that have been destroyed that the people would love us ...yea "right " .....

a reply to: seaswine

Wait, has something come out showing Russia definitely DID encroach on Turkish airspace?

Conveniently for Russia, the Russian black box that the Russian experts examined was unable to prove conclusively that the Russian planes did not enter Turkish airspace. Draw your own conclusion.

a reply to: sosobad

A bit of related news from chinese spokesman Hong Lei

The downing of the Russian Su-24 bomber over Syria while carrying out anti-terrorist operations is a great loss to the international efforts in the fight against terrorism, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said.

“We have taken note that the downed Russian plane was fulfilling a mission… It was downed while destroying terrorist targets in Syrian territory," Hong Lei said.

[Emphasis mine --DJW001]

Too bad that's not what he actually said. What Xinhua said was:

BEIJING, Dec. 22 (Xinhua) -- China on Tuesday called for more international cooperation in fighting terrorism to avoid unfortunate incidents like the downing of a Russian plane last month.

A Russian Su-24 bomber jet was downed by Turkey along the Syrian border on Nov. 24 over alleged violations of Turkish airspace, which Russia denied.

news.xinhuanet.com...

Note how the Macedonian source has deliberately altered the article to make it appear that China officially believes that the plane was shot down over Syria, when it does not. It remains undecided in the light of Russia's inability to prove that it was not in Turkish airspace, as claimed. Funny how a plea for closer co-operation is being portrayed as a condemnation of Turkey.

a reply to: DJW001

From your source

China has noted the jet was downed during operations to fight terrorist targets in Syria at the invitation of the Syrian government, Hong said.

I was just posting the news I seen but as you were so good to post an alternative source showing that China believes that Russia was indeed conducting operations against terrorists as Russia stated I thought I better post it. Cheers

a reply to: tony9802

RT is lying again the Turkish prime minister made no such syatement. Sad when the media is so controlled by the state they flat out lie.

I dun goofed

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: DJW001

From your source

China has noted the jet was downed during operations to fight terrorist targets in Syria at the invitation of the Syrian government, Hong said.

I was just posting the news I seen but as you were so good to post an alternative source showing that China believes that Russia was indeed conducting operations against terrorists as Russia stated. Cheers

Havnt seen that have seen the UN reports on civilian deaths as Russia does things like hit markets where families shop for food. And the use if cluster munitions to maximize civilian casualties. Putin is doing it again killing civilians like he did in chechnya. You can't use that old cold war tech without mass casualties.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

A bit of related news from chinese spokesman Hong Lei

The downing of the Russian Su-24 bomber over Syria while carrying out anti-terrorist operations is a great loss to the international efforts in the fight against terrorism, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said.

“We have taken note that the downed Russian plane was fulfilling a mission… It was downed while destroying terrorist targets in Syrian territory," Hong Lei said.

[Emphasis mine --DJW001]

Too bad that's not what he actually said. What Xinhua said was:

BEIJING, Dec. 22 (Xinhua) -- China on Tuesday called for more international cooperation in fighting terrorism to avoid unfortunate incidents like the downing of a Russian plane last month.

A Russian Su-24 bomber jet was downed by Turkey along the Syrian border on Nov. 24 over alleged violations of Turkish airspace, which Russia denied.

news.xinhuanet.com...

Note how the Macedonian source has deliberately altered the article to make it appear that China officially believes that the plane was shot down over Syria, when it does not. It remains undecided in the light of Russia's inability to prove that it was not in Turkish airspace, as claimed. Funny how a plea for closer co-operation is being portrayed as a condemnation of Turkey.

China is no friend to Russia in fact they are doing everything they can to keep them out of Asia.

a reply to: dragonridr

Hold on a second are you trying to say that civilian casualties are only applicable to Russia?? I know from your posting history that you aren't that naive.

a reply to: sosobad

No-one has denied that the planes were involved in operations over Syria. It is the exact nature of the targets, and whether the planes entered Turkish airspace that are in question. China does pay Russia the courtesy of considering the bombing to be "anti-terrorist," but is clearly hedging on the airspace question.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

No-one has denied that the planes were involved I operations over Syria. It is the exact nature of the targets, and whether the planes entered Turkish airspace that are in question. China does pay Russia the courtesy of considering the bombing to be "anti-terrorist," but is clearly hedging not the airspace question.

They noted that the Russian planes in the area were on an operation against terrorists while the "official" western story states they weren't, looks like China is leaning more towards Russia's version of events.

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: dragonridr

Hold on a second are you trying to say that civilian casualties are only applicable to Russia?? I know from your posting history that you aren't that naive.

Russia is making no attempts to limit casualties see in reports. They are just bombing anybody they can and doing nothing to limit casualties to the civilian population. Accidents will happen once in a while but they are well beyond accidents and showing a consistent policy.

m.voanews.com...

www.washingtonpost.com... -9ad2-568d814bbf3b_story.html

www.amnesty.org...
www.hrw.org...

a reply to: dragonridr

Once again are you staying that this type of thing is localized to Russia only? The stuff you are bringing up will surely send the thread off topic as you are just trying to jump up and down pointing at Russia while diverting away from let's say the US that has a civilian to terrorist death ratio from drones of 10:1 in Pakistan. That means that for every terrorist they kill in Pakistan alone they kill ten civilians. But as I said going into this will send the thread off topic, if you want to talk about it I suggest you head on over to the active thread about it and I'm sure someone will talk about it with you

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: dragonridr

Once again are you staying that this type of thing is localized to Russia only? The stuff you are bringing up will surely send the thread off topic as you are just trying to jump up and down pointing at Russia while diverting away from let's say the US that has a civilian to terrorist death ratio from drones of 10:1 in Pakistan. That means that for every terrorist they kill in Pakistan alone they kill ten civilians. But as I said going into this will send the thread off topic, if you want to talk about it I suggest you head on over to the active thread about it and I'm sure someone will talk about it with you

Pakistan isn't Syria which is not the topic here. And to argue that Russia is attacking terrorists and Turkey should just allow them into their territory after being warned is another lie. It could just as easily be argued turkey was defending its border from a group that has shown a blatant disregard for syrians and international borders. Let's not tell lies at are above that Russia isn't the innocent victim. They entered into Turkish airspace they aren't trying to stop terrorism they were trying to support assads troops.

However I think Putin is learning he can't support assad and is backing down. Its desperately looking for a way out including stabbing assad in the back. Now Russia isn't against the idea of assad leaving.

However please send ne the info on Pakistan would live to see it since the strikes have been classified by the state deoartment. Meaning love to see the source

a reply to: dragonridr

No no the topic here is about Russia saying that Turkey accepted responsibility for shooting down the aircraft, whether they did is doubtful because what RT says sometimes and what was actually said tend to differ sometimes. Not civilian casualties, there is an active thread on it, if you want to bother someone about go over there, it's Christmas eve I have better things to be doing than get into an off topic debate on civilian casualties. I was just responding to DJW001 that's all.

Russia has stated from very early on that Assad cannot stay. So what you are bringing up is old hat.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
a reply to: uncommitted

Every news station throws their own angle on the story. It just makes me laugh when people shout 'biased' when every msm outlet do the exact same damn thing. Western, Eastern, Antarctican etc

As tadaman says above, RT is state owned - many western media channels have their own editorial policy, in fact to be 100% neutral even at an individual level is extremely different as we all bring our own bias and prejudice whether you accept it or not, but I can't think of any western media channels that are explicitly state owned and therefore are only reliable if you want to believe in what they tell you.

Does the BBC qualify?

a reply to: tony9802

I see Russia is still not capable of the truth.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: uncommitted

but I can't think of any western media channels that are explicitly state owned and therefore are only reliable if you want to believe in what they tell you.

There is the BBC in Britain and the CBC in Canada that are state owned or at least funded which is what RT is .

Although I'm sure a lot of people on ATS will disagree, the BBC isn't comparable with RT. It's not government funded, it's publicly funded via a licence fee. I can't speak to CBC.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: uncommitted

We were told by the western MSM that because we were going to liberate those countries that have been destroyed that the people would love us ...yea "right " .....

I'm sure Russian media said the same about Chechnya and Georgia, come to that and of the former countries of the USSR.

a reply to: Wide-Eyes

Another RT basher... lol. You guys think just because it has Russia in it's name, they're all communist scum.

Nope just told what to say by the Kremlin.

Nearly ALL of the journalists I see on there are westerners. .. I guess you think they are traitors.

To most just a job, but to some they can't keep telling the lies...

Russia Today Anchor Resigns, Admits To Spreading 'Lies' For Putin

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Liz Wahl, a correspondent for RT America, resigned on air, saying she could no longer be part of a network that "whitewashes the actions of Putin."

www.theguardian.com...

But you keep believing RT is a credible source for the truth.