Homicides mount, pushing Baltimore to second highest total in city history

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Something that would be fixed by fixed the wage gap, no?

Guess you have not seen the cost of daycare lately.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
There are plenty of terrible two parent households too. Why do all these "Single moms are the devil!" people ever acknowledge that piece of dirty laundry? How many marriages end in divorce these days? Is that conducive to a good environment for a child (Studies say its is healthier for the parents to end the relationship instead of trying to hold it together for the sake of the children by the way).

I am certainly not saying that 'single PARENTS are the devil' but it is an undeniable fact that a two parent household typically offers better socio-economic opportunities.

That wouldn't be a problem if we'd fix the wage gap in this country and people were able to survive on single person incomes again.

You can survive on a single income... IF YOU DON"T HAVE CHILDREN BEFORE YOU CAN AFFORD THEM.

So let me guess, all those who see issue in poverty ARE for increase of minimum wage to $15 as well better healthcare for ALL??

Somehow I doubt that... but let's see, I might be wrong...

a reply to: Edumakated

Ok, so we can throw stats at each other all day long and neither of us will be any closer to convincing the other person. So I'm going to address the bottom part of your post.

So back to your first post regarding the murder rate in Baltimore. Can you not see that if you want to fix the problem you have to get to the root of it?

If you think single parent households are the problem, how do you fix it?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Something that would be fixed by fixed the wage gap, no?

Guess you have not seen the cost of daycare lately.

Actually I have, but I feel like you aren't following my conversation. I said, "once we fix the wage gap and single parents can survive on a single parent's salary and pay for their child" things would be different. You are basing your argument against me on CURRENT wages.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
There are plenty of terrible two parent households too. Why do all these "Single moms are the devil!" people ever acknowledge that piece of dirty laundry? How many marriages end in divorce these days? Is that conducive to a good environment for a child (Studies say its is healthier for the parents to end the relationship instead of trying to hold it together for the sake of the children by the way).

I am certainly not saying that 'single PARENTS are the devil' but it is an undeniable fact that a two parent household typically offers better socio-economic opportunities.

That wouldn't be a problem if we'd fix the wage gap in this country and people were able to survive on single person incomes again.

You can survive on a single income... IF YOU DON"T HAVE CHILDREN BEFORE YOU CAN AFFORD THEM.

First, why are you yelling at me? Second, easier said then done. Third, mistakes happen. I sure hope you are pro-choice if you are going to get angry at people having children before they are financially able to do so. Otherwise you are just wasting breath, pissing people off, and not helping to fix the problem.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
If you think single parent households are the problem, how do you fix it?

Why 'polygamy' sounds like likely solution...

Do we have any cities that managed to escape such conditions?? I remember hearing something on NPR... might have to search bit...

originally posted by: SuperFrog
So let me guess, all those who see issue in poverty ARE for increase of minimum wage to $15 as well better healthcare for ALL??

Somehow I doubt that... but let's see, I might be wrong...

Well, the rationale currently being used is to blame single mothers and not poverty. Though I think poverty has a MUCH more significant effect on the upbringing of a child then the number of parents the child has. But if you demonize single mothers, you don't have to tackle that elephant in the room which involves cracking down on the wage gap and/or strengthening Social Programs.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Actually I have, but I feel like you aren't following my conversation. I said, "once we fix the wage gape and single parents can survive on a single parent's salary and pay for their child" things would be different. You are basing your argument against me on CURRENT wages.

'Fixing the wage gap' is far to vague to offer any metrics or definitive corrective action. The fact that it usually takes two parents now to afford daycare and the household expenses means that you would expect a single parent to earn as much as a two parent household. I do not think this is a feasible scenario.

Also, the wage gap does not address poor parenting, there are poor people who are great parents and rich people who are not. In a two parent household you at least have the chance that if one parent is not as capable perhaps the other, who received better parenting themselves, can impart their wisdom on the situation.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

By that same token, if both parents turn out to be duds then your childhood becomes that much worse.

I know I'm not being too descriptive on what I mean by fixing the wage gap, but I can if you'd like me to. I have ideas that have worked in the past that would easily expand middle america's disposable income again. But they are Socialist in nature so I'm going to get a lot of push back for suggesting them.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: SuperFrog
So let me guess, all those who see issue in poverty ARE for increase of minimum wage to $15 as well better healthcare for ALL??

Somehow I doubt that... but let's see, I might be wrong...

Well, the rationale currently being used is to blame single mothers and not poverty. Though I think poverty has a MUCH more significant effect on the upbringing of a child then the number of parents the child has. But if you demonize single mothers, you don't have to tackle that elephant in the room which involves cracking down on the wage gap and/or strengthening Social Programs.

37.1% of Single Parent Homes are in Poverty.

6.8% of Two Parent Homes are in Poverty.

Looks to me like single parents tend to find themselves impoverished at a higher rate. Why is that? This should be obvious as most single parent will not be able to focus on career, education, etc which is what really drives poverty not this mythical wage gap. In other words, their poverty is not causing them to be single parents but their single parenting is causing them to be poor.

Again, you are refusing to acknowledge how personal responsibility and cultural acceptance of having children out of wedlock is a very significant root cause to many of the issues you claim to care about.

Marriage: Greatest weapon against poverty

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
By that same token, if both parents turn out to be duds then your childhood becomes that much worse.

I do not think it is that much of a compounded situation. You are either raised properly or not. Kind of hard to think that if mommy raised that kid like s*** daddy would say, 'I'm goona make that kid even s***tier' and it would make a significant difference.

I know I'm not being too descriptive on what I mean by fixing the wage gap, but I can if you'd like me to. I have ideas that have worked in the past that would easily expand middle america's disposable income again. But they are Socialist in nature so I'm going to get a lot of push back for suggesting them.

Probably not the best thread for that as we will end up deep in the weeds at that point and not on the topic which you posted and is deserving of its own discussion (which I think we are derailing at this point).

a reply to: Edumakated

How do you refute the information I posted earlier that shows it is harmful for a marriage having difficulties to keep the marriage together for the sake of the kids? What's the divorce rate right now? 40 - 50 %

37.1% of Single Parent Homes are in Poverty.

6.8% of Two Parent Homes are in Poverty.

I guess it means nothing to you that poverty puts strains on marriage relationships, often resulting in divorce huh?

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: SuperFrog

Just exactly how much more "help" do they need?

freebeacon.com...

The city of Baltimore received over $1.8 billion from President Barack Obama’s stimulus law, including $467.1 million to invest in education and $26.5 million for crime prevention.

Yet another fine example of the effectiveness of Federal programs.
Next year they'll double it because it was so successful!

a reply to: Edumakated

Hmm and poverty is always pointed to as the root cause of inner city problems by the very people who disagree with your stance but they want to completely disregard the parental make up of families.

Funny how that works.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
I do not think it is that much of a compounded situation. You are either raised properly or not. Kind of hard to think that if mommy raised that kid like s*** daddy would say, 'I'm goona make that kid even s***tier' and it would make a significant difference.

What if your parents spend all their spare time yelling at each other?

Probably not the best thread for that as we will end up deep in the weeds at that point and not on the topic which you posted and is deserving of its own discussion (which I think we are derailing at this point).

Right. That's why I didn't elaborate on it.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Edumakated

How do you refute the information I posted earlier that shows it is harmful for a marriage having difficulties to keep the marriage together for the sake of the kids? What's the divorce rate right now? 40 - 50 %

37.1% of Single Parent Homes are in Poverty.

6.8% of Two Parent Homes are in Poverty.

I guess it means nothing to you that poverty puts strains on marriage relationships, often resulting in divorce huh?

The way Social service program rules are laid out make it harder for married couples to stay above water. Abuse the rules, have live-in boyfriends, multiple baby daddies etc and you get more money from the state. Just lie about how many live in one household and you get help. This is the fallout from Johnson's "Great society" - more births out of wedlock, less marriages, weaker family ties and in the end more poverty and crime because the incentive to work has been removed.
There is less supervision of children at home leading to lowering of educational standards. It's a vicious cycle that needs to be broken with a combination of opportunity, job training, substance abuse and family counseling and removing the incentive of welfare.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Edumakated

How do you refute the information I posted earlier that shows it is harmful for a marriage having difficulties to keep the marriage together for the sake of the kids? What's the divorce rate right now? 40 - 50 %

37.1% of Single Parent Homes are in Poverty.

6.8% of Two Parent Homes are in Poverty.

I guess it means nothing to you that poverty puts strains on marriage relationships, often resulting in divorce huh?

The way Social service program rules are laid out make it harder for married couples to stay above water. Abuse the rules, have live-in boyfriends, multiple baby daddies etc and you get more money from the state. Just lie about how many live in one household and you get help. This is the fallout from Johnson's "Great society" - more births out of wedlock, less marriages, weaker family ties and in the end more poverty and crime because the incentive to work has been removed.

??? Got any proof for these accusations? Like how exactly are Social Programs laid out that benefit single family homes to the detriment of two parent homes?

There is less supervision of children at home leading to lowering of educational standards. It's a vicious cycle that needs to be broken with a combination of opportunity, job training, substance abuse and family counseling and removing the incentive of welfare.

You are listing a bunch of misconceptions and rhetoric in this post. Welfare recipients aren't all drug users for instance...

a reply to: SuperFrog

The issue is with the people who WANT to harm others alone.
Whatever method they seek to use to do so is irrelevant.
THEY need ways to get better lives,they are doing so by stealing it.
Some are just broken and will never be fixable who should only be shot,I 'm no cop or lawyer to decide, but we all KNOW they are out there
If you want to fix something like this it could be worse that when they bombed Watts.
Only THIS time with a "Felluja" style patrol model.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Edumakated

How do you refute the information I posted earlier that shows it is harmful for a marriage having difficulties to keep the marriage together for the sake of the kids? What's the divorce rate right now? 40 - 50 %

37.1% of Single Parent Homes are in Poverty.

6.8% of Two Parent Homes are in Poverty.

I guess it means nothing to you that poverty puts strains on marriage relationships, often resulting in divorce huh?

The way Social service program rules are laid out make it harder for married couples to stay above water. Abuse the rules, have live-in boyfriends, multiple baby daddies etc and you get more money from the state. Just lie about how many live in one household and you get help. This is the fallout from Johnson's "Great society" - more births out of wedlock, less marriages, weaker family ties and in the end more poverty and crime because the incentive to work has been removed.

??? Got any proof for these accusations? Like how exactly are Social Programs laid out that benefit single family homes to the detriment of two parent homes?

There is less supervision of children at home leading to lowering of educational standards. It's a vicious cycle that needs to be broken with a combination of opportunity, job training, substance abuse and family counseling and removing the incentive of welfare.

You are listing a bunch of misconceptions and rhetoric in this post. Welfare recipients aren't all drug users for instance...

How Welfare Undermines Marriage

From the article;

The burgeoning welfare state has promoted single parenthood in two ways. First, means-tested welfare programs such as those described above financially enable single parenthood. It is difficult for single mothers with a high school degree or less to support children without the aid of another parent. Means-tested welfare programs substantially reduce this difficulty by providing extensive support to single parents. Welfare thereby reduces the financial need for marriage. Since the beginning of the War on Poverty, less-educated mothers have increasingly become married to the welfare state and to the U.S. taxpayer rather than to the fathers of their children.

As means-tested benefits expanded, welfare began to serve as a substitute for a husband in the home, and low-income marriage began to disappear. As husbands left the home, the need for more welfare to support single mothers increased. The War on Poverty created a destructive feedback loop: Welfare promoted the decline of marriage, which generated a need for more welfare.

Penalizing Marriage
A second major problem is that the means-tested welfare system actively penalizes low-income parents who do marry. All means-tested welfare programs are designed so that a family’s benefits are reduced as earnings rise. In practice, this means that, if a low-income single mother marries an employed father, her welfare benefits will generally be substantially reduced. The mother can maximize welfare by remaining unmarried and keeping the father’s income “off the books.”

For example, a single mother with two children who earns $15,000 per year would generally receive around $5,200 per year of food stamp benefits. However, if she marries a father with the same earnings level, her food stamps would be cut to zero. A single mother receiving benefits from Section 8 or public housing would receive a subsidy worth on average around $11,000 per year if she was not employed, but if she marries a man earning $20,000 per year, these benefits would be cut nearly in half. Both food stamps and housing programs provide very real financial incentives for couples to remain separate and unmarried.

The system encourages couples to remain unmarried and has created a culture in which is acceptable to be unwed and have children.

I can't tell if you are being willfully blind or you really have just not stepped outside of your progressive bubble to look at these issues in another light.