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I started thinking about this tonight: and how much I have grown to dislike the police.

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posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 10:29 AM
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a reply to: GrantedBail

I worked with and around LEO's for years and from my years of experience, I can tell you only one thing about the world the LEO's work in.

That is this.........any cop in any major metro area in the US, that is under the age of 40, is poorly, very poorly, incredibly poorly........vetted and trained.

I recently watched a video of two cops, In LA I think, try to cuff and arrest some guy and one cop accidentally shot the other cop and then shot the perp, (who was lying on his stomach, face down, with two cops on him), THREE TIMES, in the back.

That's a perfect example of incredibly poor training. When two cops can't take down one perp and then end up shooting each other and the perp three times in the back, it tells me that these cops are worse than Barny Fife! They've had NO training! That's ridiculous.

I don't hate the cops, but I am very wary of them. I've been with them at the range........many can't hit the broad side of a barn door at 30 feet. I've also observed them trample their own crime scenes......they don't know how to investigate without disturbing the scene of the crime.

Its an awful situation.




posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 10:53 AM
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a reply to: TonyS

I understand; I also watched that video; the bad guy, (gang member, with warrants, known to have / carry loaded weapons/ drug dealer) was trying continually to take the officers weapon.

It was to say the least a fluster cuck.

bad things happen on the streets. Most of the time the bad guys know/premeditate and the officers have to react to their actions. I am not at all defending the officers, the courts will color their path. .

I said that to say this, many are quick to judge from pictures or partial videos...

back on topic. there are badly trained [insert occupation here] everywhere in all walks of the working community in all parts of the world.

Not all LEO or first responders fit into the OP generalization.








posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 11:01 AM
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a reply to: ReadLeader
You're correct, not all fit the description, but here's the key to the problem......back in early 2000's, most metro areas went through a phase where they early retired experienced cops and tried to replace them with new hires.

There weren't any experienced cops, or not enough of them, to train up the new hires.

See......the deal with "coperage" is that you get trained in the Academy about the laws and such and some gun training and how to start the car and run the bubble lights and run plates on the computer and how to talk on the radio. That's about it. You actually "learn" how to be a proficient cop from some old guy or gal who's already made all the stupid mistakes. Good "copperage" comes from years of street education, not a book or a lecture.

edit on 22-12-2015 by TonyS because: spellin



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 11:16 AM
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a reply to: TonyS

AGREED!!! AS Bruce Lee said; "one learns how to fight by fighting" -

Back on topic, my point is that the OP generalized, likely due to his/her personal life experiences with LEO.

We have to choose our words wiser. Especially at a time where there is so much violence and hatred for Law Enforcement...





posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 11:33 AM
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a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

General consensus for those outside the UK seems to be that our police are whiter than white, but we have our share of bent coppers. Admittedly, not all my encounters were good natured and I know the bad apples are there.

I wish I could sing praises for our police, but I don't feel they really serve the public anymore. They are rarely seen in the wild, beyond cruising for fines. I have found it hard to even get a response back from the Police unless I was calling on behalf of a large company looking to reclaim some losses. I do kind of feel like if something went seriously Pete Tong, I'd be well on my own. I have little faith. Gone are the days when Bobby was your best friend.



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 03:37 PM
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originally posted by: charolais
I think that the police academies have a lot to do with pre-conditioning police officers for the "thin blue line" mentality. I live in a small town and you can see the complete difference between the part time officers (the ones who haven't been to academy and have other full time jobs), compared to the full time cops who went to academy and have a few years experience.

Many seem to turn from decent human beings to power tripping bullies. No they haven't shot any innocent citizens or strangled any kids, but just the way they interact with you is depressing - stop you for a minor infraction and speak to you like you are a murder/rapist/felon.


This is the main problem that nearly everyone overlooks.

Police association leadership and their PROMOTION STANDARDS are the problem, particularly leadership that was not old enough to have been drafted into the Vietnam War. I am specifically calling out the current LEO leaders, that were born after 1951 and were not old enough to have been eligible for the last draft lottery, happening in 1969. This age cohort is almost entirely at fault for causing the problems we are seeing today.

If you look at how cops are selected and then consider the mini-boot camp process that they go through, its easy to see why typical LEO's are so screwed up in the community relations aspects of their jobs. One example, where I feel the typical "academy certificate" process is inadequate, is in the eventual selection of "detectives". Sure, the "academy certificate", mini-boot camp, may be adequate for selecting beat cops and SWAT, but on the flip side of that process, it will almost always eliminate the types of people that would eventually become GREAT detectives, whom actually have the ability to solves crimes. Once you really think about how some beat cops move up, SOLELY FOR HIGHER PAY, to eventually become detectives, its very easy to see why LEO's across the country seem to be having increasing troubles solving crimes.

A few other deficient LEO candidate selection areas are the Explosives Units and K-9 Handlers. Imagine a situation where a COMBAT veteran, who's done a tour or two, in Explosives Ordinance Disposal or as a K-9 handler, returning to civilian life entering an LEO career. Once this veteran successfully has gotten hired as an LEO, this EXPERIENCED person would then have to serve 3+ years as a beat cop, before they would be eligible to APPLY for the Explosives or K-9 units. What a HUGE WASTE of previous DOCUMENTED training and service time, letting hundreds of thousands of dollars of previous training costs, GO STALE, while this experienced person WAITS, to merely become eligible to APPLY for a job that they have 75%+ of the training completed already! The typical LEO promotion and Specialty Unit selection processes are a JOKE in the United States! Tax paying citizens should be both outraged and ashamed of its mere existence.

Also the country had a far larger population of soldiers with PTSD after WWII ended, returning to civilian life and public sector employment, mostly without recorded incident. Same goes for the period after the Vietnam War and as we know, few of these guys got psychiatric treatment of any kind, ESPECIALLY when compared to the treatment options soldiers have available today. I can't even begin to imagine what those soldiers saw while serving in WWI, WWII and Vietnam, versus what soldiers are experiencing today.

WWI: 4.7 million troops sent over the course of 1 year
WWII: 16.1 million troops sent over a 4 year period
Korean War: 5.7 million troops sent over a 3 year period
Vietnam War: 8.7 million sent over a 20 year period
Desert Storm: 2.3 million sent over the course of 1 year
Iraq & Afghanistan: 2.5 million sent over a 13 year period

Note the number of troops that actually saw combat, versus those that were combat support positions and were actually in harms way, has decrease significantly from each conflict to the next.

Although I am not old enough to have dealt with, first hand, police officers that served in WWII, I am old enough to have dealt with LEO's that served in Vietnam. In contrast, to contemporary LEO's, I NEVER ONCE felt in danger when dealing with an LEO that was old enough to have been drafted into the Vietnam War (those born on or before 1951, with the last draft lottery happening in 1969), even when I was completely in the wrong and assumed to be breaking the law.

Today, every interaction with LEO's could potential wind up being my last day on earth. That was UNTHINKABLE when Vietnam Vets were running the show. The worst thing that would happen to you, when they were in charge, was a good beating and a night in jail.

The current leaders among LEO departments across the country, are younger boomers that were not old enough to have gone to Vietnam and they have taught younger officers to be completely unethical in their dealing with the general public.

Civilians should not trust the motivations of LEO's and must always assume that their lives are in danger, with EVERY interaction they have with LEO's.

Why? Not because ALL LEO's are bad, but because ALL LEO's are LEGALLY AUTHORIZED to kill civilians, as they see fit.

Why should civilians take any risk of death, when its far easier to simply not interact with, refuse to help and actively avoid contact with LEO's, whom are LEGALLY AUTHORIZED to kill civilians, as they see fit?

If these LEO's that killed civilians, really cared and were not sociopaths, they'd quit the job as soon as they killed someone on accident, even if legally cleared eventually. Note, very few, if ANY, of these officers "protecting & serving" have left their positions or the profession out of "guilt" for their crimes or mistakes. The fact that they just suck it up and keep on driving, assures me that they are NOT sane. It is nothing like being in the military, where you can be jailed and prosecuted for not following a legal command to "kill the enemy", during a period of war, ordered by the Commander-in-Chief.

LEO's CAN QUIT ANYTIME THEY WANT TO and when they don't resign after doing something unconscionable, it strongly suggests that they are dangerous to the public. So when these LEO's keep working in the same role, after killing a civilian, I can't help but assume that the individual is a sociopath, out for the "power of the position" and not to "protect & serve" civilians.
edit on 22-12-2015 by boohoo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 03:41 PM
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It's ironic that obama cries about the media causing fear of ISIS, yet he doesn't have a single care about the media blasting the police and BLM protests about cops and killing cops.



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 04:13 PM
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originally posted by: LSU0408
It's ironic that obama cries about the media causing fear of ISIS, yet he doesn't have a single care about the media blasting the police and BLM protests about cops and killing cops.


Police deserve the public image that they have earned. Why do you think LEO's and judges are cracking down so hard on people that film them while they violate the constitution?

LEO's are not trusted by large portions of the general public any longer. Perhaps not a majority, YET, but still having large numbers concentrated heavily among those under 40 years of age. Also, even, IF, the under 40 crowd does not believe that LEO's are dangerously lethal to civilians (which they do), this under 40 cohort, ABSOLUTELY believes that LEO's are, primarily, "revenue collectors".

Here is an example of a sleepy county in Oregon, that is 92% white, with 56% of the population over 45 years of age, yet, these people still VOTED TO DE-FUND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT because they got sick of receiving unjust traffic tickets:

Defunding government is a sensible voter solution to reining in local government By Dave Duffy

Think about that for a minute, if LEO's can't hold the trust of small communities, with these kinds of demographics, what chance do they stand anywhere else? Not much. This should be a VERY CLEAR message that LEO's, in general, have lost the trust of the public.

Law Enforcement Agencies and the types of officers they typically employ, like having the option to "overreact" and if too many internal "do-gooders" start eroding that ability, I suspect that most officers wouldn't want to be in Law Enforcement anymore. They do "Protect & Serve", but its the STATE that they "Protect & Serve".

Here is an except from Bowers v. DeVito. In 1982, the Court of Appeals, Seventh Circuit held, "...there is no Constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen. It is monstrous if the state fails to protect its residents... but it does not violate... the Constitution."

"no duty" = "free to ignore" because if there is no financial or legal consequence to inaction, then certainly some "bad apples" will use that as a legal basis for "choosing", when to "render services" or when not to.

From the perspective of LEO's, the above noted ruling means that they may "pick and choose" when they attempt to "save someone from death or injury" because the ruling does not obligate them to act. It is that perspective, which LEO's are allowed to legally take, that should matter to the average citizen. The context from Bowers v. DeVito is very clear, the police CHOSE to not assist, despite Marguerite Anne Bowers repeatedly requesting their help and the courts then determined that the police are not liable for making the "choice" to not help her.

As for the "Oath's" that LEO's typically take, lets use the LAPD oath for example, which seems to be MOSTLY concerned with swearing to not overthrow the government:

"And I do further swear (or affirm) that I do not advocate, nor am I a member of any party or organization, political or other- wise, that now advocates the overthrow of the Government of the United States or of the State of California by force or violence or other unlawful means; that within the five years immediately preceding the taking of this oath (or affirmation) I have not been a member of any party or organization, political or other-wise, that advocated the overthrow of the Government of the United States or of the State of California by force or violence or other unlawful means. I will not advocate nor become (name of office) a member of any party or organization, political or otherwise, that advocates the overthrow of the Government of the United States or of the State of California by force or violence or other unlawful means."

Here is another sample Oath, that focuses on "Peace with the Communities" within the "Sovereign Country and State":

I SWEAR,, THAT - I WILL WELL AND TRULY SERVE - OUR SOVEREIGN COUNTRY AND STATE - AS A POLICE OFFICER WITHOUT FAVOR OR AFFECTION - MALICE OR ILL-WILL - UNTIL I AM LEGALLY DISCHARGED, THAT I WILL SEE AND CAUSE ­ OUR COMMUNITY’S PEACE TO BE KEPT AND PRESERVED - AND THAT - I WILL PREVENT TO THE BEST OF MY POWER - ALL OFFENSES AGAINST THAT PEACE - AND THAT - WHILE I CONTINUE TO BE A POLICE OFFICER

So exactly how, do these above noted sample Oaths, keep officers from "picking and choosing" when they attempt to "save someone from death or injury" due to having no LEGAL obligation to act? Other than of course, having the LEGAL obligation to keep "Peace with the Communities" within the "Sovereign Country and State" and also swearing to not overthrow the government.
edit on 22-12-2015 by boohoo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 04:18 PM
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originally posted by: thektotheg
Wow. The denial is strong in this one.


Not at all, I've been the victim of corrupt police. I was once pulled over for "driving suspiciously", forced to take a breathalyzer, and then when I passed (I don't drink, at all) I was beaten by the cop while he yelled stop resisting. Then he drove away without so much as a ticket.

On the other hand, I've also listened in on police training and I've thought about what circumstances lead the bad cops to behave in the way they do. I used to think that most of them were bad, but they really aren't, the good ones don't have a choice though because they have families to feed and we have no safety nets for them if they walk away or speak up.

The biggest driver of the problem is the way our justice system is set up. If fewer plea bargains happened, more trials would have to be held, and the system would collapse unless it started sending far less people to court in the first place.



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 04:19 PM
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a reply to: boohoo

Arresting someone for breaking the law isn't a violation of the constitution.



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 04:54 PM
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originally posted by: LSU0408
a reply to: boohoo

Arresting someone for breaking the law isn't a violation of the constitution.


They are, first and foremost, "Revenue Collectors" and a majority of those "arrests" are structured to support a revenue generation process for government (fines, etc).

Ne w York Man Reaches Settlement for Unlawful Arrest for Flipping Cop Off as More Video is Released
edit on 22-12-2015 by boohoo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 05:12 PM
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a reply to: GrantedBail

actually...
i think the bad guys/aliens/satan/bogeymen-in-charge is using our protectors to actually protect themselves from us when it comes down to it...

if it comes down to it-guess who's back I will feel compelled to watch-over?
the guy doing what I might also see as the right thing to do.



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 11:27 PM
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a reply to: charolais

Part time officers go through the same police academy as full time officers.

I am not aware of any officer, in any state, that has the power to make an arrest not going through the full police academy.

Can you provide me any evidence of this?


edit on 22-12-2015 by TorqueyThePig because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 11:42 PM
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cops are just people, like any other. sometimes you run into a nice mechanic and sometimes you don't.

I think a lot of good people may be turned off from being a cop because they don't believe cops uphold the good anymore. Why would a good person uphold a set of rules they don't agree with.
First and foremost like any other person cops want job security.



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 12:50 AM
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originally posted by: LSU0408
a reply to: boohoo

Arresting someone for breaking the law isn't a violation of the constitution.


Fair enough. But harassing & profiling people they (the police) assume don't know the law is.

They ruin peoples lives on a daily basis by escalating situations when there is no need for it... seemingly just for the fun of it.

I was walking down the street early in the morning not so long ago, when I had a cop pull up beside me and start demanding my name and address... At the time, I wasn't in the mood to be talked down to by anyone, so I informed him that by law he had no right to even approach me unless he could provide me with the crime he suspected me of being involved in, then I walked off... Next thing I knew 3 cops came running around the corner and slammed me face first into the concrete. Like, WTF!

It was an illegal act and there was no need for it!

Sure, I could tell many more stories of instances where a police officer was extremely lenient and even let me off, when I was in the mood to cooperate... But theirs nothing illegal about not being in the mood to cooperate when your not suspected of any specific crime.

The bad apple spoils the bunch... as far as I'm concerned!



posted on Dec, 24 2015 @ 02:00 PM
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a reply to: Subaeruginosa

IF people would obey commands when asked to pull over, take their hands out of thier pockets, etc. There likely would not be escalation ...period...

The bad guys KNOW what actions they will take/ officers have to react to whatever level of force that the bad guy throws....

If you don't like the Police. Please don't break the law, please don't be in company with other people that have warrants, please don't be out dui @ 0200hrs, please be cooperative. In my state we don't need PC to speak to anyone.

Most people that dislike the 5 OH ( much like the OP) have a criminal history & or , as In your situation, have/had something to hide. Not "being "in The mood" is no excuse to disobey orders/commands from law enforcement. ... period....

Finally, if you don't like the police, please don't call when you are in need of assistance..

Merry Christmas



posted on Dec, 24 2015 @ 05:53 PM
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a reply to: ReadLeader


IF people would obey commands when asked to pull over, take their hands out of thier pockets, etc. There likely would not be escalation ...period...


If police wouldn't pull people over or stop them in the street and start making commands, when there is no just cause, then "there likely would not be escalation" either... period!



The bad guys KNOW what actions they will take/ officers have to react to whatever level of force that the bad guy throws....


Which is perfectly fair enough, if the person is known to the police as a repeat offender, or the police have reason to believe the person has been involved in a crime... But police just can't go around randomly harassing people and start getting all aggressive when the person objects to being harassed... if nothing else, its disrespectful and text book anti-social behavior.



If you don't like the Police. Please don't break the law, please don't be in company with other people that have warrants, please don't be out dui @ 0200hrs, please be cooperative. In my state we don't need PC to speak to anyone.


When did I say anything about not liking police? I just don't like 'anyone' who would go and start harassing people on the street for no good reason... Even if its actually true that police have the right to stop anyone they want for no good reason in your state, then start making demands and talking down to them... doesn't change the fact its a very impolite way to treat a fellow human being.

I think there parents did a very poor job of teaching them how to be respectful of others, if they think that's a justifiable way for police to treat people.



Most people that dislike the 5 OH ( much like the OP) have a criminal history & or , as In your situation, have/had something to hide. Not "being "in The mood" is no excuse to disobey orders/commands from law enforcement. ... period....


In my situation I had nothing to hide. If I ever had anything to hide then I imagine I'd be very cooperative and polite, I imagine most half intelligent criminals would be the same... A lot of police think there the next Sigmund Freud, but truth be told most of them don't have the first clue about human psychology. All they usually know how to do is profile people and play the numbers game until they get lucky.

Also, not being in the mood is a perfectly reasonable reason to disobey "orders/commands" from the police, if your local law says they have no right to be doing so... They should practice what they preach and obey the law.



Finally, if you don't like the police, please don't call when you are in need of assistance..


Again, never said anything about not liking police... As a matter of fact, I like the police when there protecting the vulnerable from the predators. I just have a real issue when the police become the predators.

Yeah, Merry Chrismas



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 12:56 AM
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a reply to: ReadLeader


back on topic. there are badly trained [insert occupation here] everywhere in all walks of the working community in all parts of the world.

Not all LEO or first responders fit into the OP generalization.


But not every [insert occupation here] has the authority of the state backing him up when he mistakenly kills someone on the job for not complying with his unlawful orders.



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 01:35 AM
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Good thing you caught on!

Master roundin' up psychological misfits.

Only a mentally ill person would disobey a cop's commands, even when complying while simultaneously having 10.000 volts coursing through their body.

They want a comprehensive list of persons whom to place on the no 2nd amendment (aka no-fly) list.

Now that you have become aware, what will you do?

Will you let it in
Will you let it run your life?

# 557



posted on Dec, 30 2015 @ 06:27 PM
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a reply to: GrantedBail




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