Norway now offering formal instruction to refugees that rape is wrong

originally posted by: Enochstask
With all of the muslim apologist on this site I am amazed not one has come forward and said the women probably deserved it. I find it interesting that some folks on this site keep going to bat time and time again for muslims only to be proved wrong by each new muslim atrocity. The reckoning is coming.

I think there is a way to hold certain areas of the faith accountable while also propping up the people trying to reaffirm the faith. For instance Indonesia has had female leaders and high ranking officials including president.

We can't do that if we are so greedy we allow our money lust to sponsor states that subjugate women, imprison reformers, and civil rights lawyers.

But yeah its unbelievable the people unwilling to admit there is a big problem not just a small portion of the faith. Entire governments adhere to subjugation practices. Ruling over millions of people.

It's an era where you are just supposed to say the opposite of your opponent without thinking.

originally posted by: hammanderr


No, Sweden is the rape capitol of the west because the Muslim immigrants are raping Swedish women. Your statistic gathering explanation aside, Muslims rape women, it's just what they do.

The Muslim immigrants come from countries where the culture considers

*women* to have no status or rights and of no value, as possessions

... to do with as they like.

So why would they think that the *women* of the host country would be

considered any differently?

So yes they need to be taught that in the western civilisation things are

very different and male and female are of equal value.


LOL!! that will really come as a culture shock to their systems!

Actually, if you look at rape stats in general, by ethnicity, white women are always getting raped by dark skinned people, relatively speaking. As opposed to the other way around. White men tend to rape colored women at a minuscule rate. So, based on these numbers, if you are a white guy that supports non white immigration into your country. You are supporting the raping of women.

In reality it is only some fifty years or so since it became a crime

for "rape within marriage" prior to that "white men" ^^^^ considered

it was a legal right for them to rape their wives if necessary!

en.wikipedia.org...

If immigrants wish to live in western countries they will have to understand

that they too will have to abide by the laws of that particular country.

Another reason why I hate the muslim religion

originally posted by: RoyBatty

If Sharia courts in Britain can subjugate women in their own marriages, the rape figures need to be addressed. This Leiden University study is disturbing and should raise questions about cultural integration and whether Western countries should allow unlimited immigration from cultures who have NO desire to integrate.

Sharia courts in Britain lock women into 'marital captivity', study says.

I am not anti Muslim in any fashion, but I am staunchly anti-Sharia. Why should Western culture be subjected to pre-enlightenment laws and cultural standards which are 14 centuries behind?

And this is exactly why there can be no compromise on the law. The laws of the host country are the only laws that are valid.

Individuals, if they wish to have the case intermediated under a lower court, should have to go through an appellate court before any decision is determined to be lawful, based solely on the laws of the country, and certified by an appellate judge of the host country.

Too many Sharia rules and lawsiare at odds with the laws of the host countries, to trust those looking for true justice, to rely only on the will of a religious leader.

Legal and court proceedings Syariah Court in Malacca, Malaysia. Sharia judicial proceedings have significant differences from other legal traditions, including those in both common law and civil law. Sharia courts traditionally do not rely on lawyers; plaintiffs and defendants represent themselves. Trials are conducted solely by the judge, and there is no jury system. There is no pre-trial discovery process, and no cross-examination of witnesses. Unlike common law, judges' verdicts do not set binding precedents, under the principle of stare decisis, and unlike civil law, sharia is left to the interpretation in each case and has no formally codified universal statutes. The rules of evidence in sharia courts also maintain a distinctive custom of prioritizing oral testimony. Witnesses, in a sharia court system, must be faithful, that is Muslim. Male Muslim witnesses are deemed more reliable than female Muslim witnesses, and non-Muslim witnesses considered unreliable and receive no priority in a sharia court. In civil cases, a Muslim woman witness is considered half the worth and reliability than a Muslim man witness. In criminal cases, women witnesses are unacceptable in stricter, traditional interpretations of sharia, such as those found in Hanbali madhhab

There is no way that Sharia law can ever be allowed to work along aside of the laws on any non-Muslim country. There is no need for two laws, and there is no way that it can be done fairly, unless the Sharia law goes strictly by the laws of the land. If they do that, there is no need for Sharia law.

a reply to: luthier

Well Rumi a very famous Sufi poet has said when you ignore the nafs they come up in perversion. Meaning the more repressive you are to human nature without care and thought the more bizare the perversions. Like the Catholic priest situation. You can't ignore sexual desire with only rules it also takes serious enlightened practice.

I don't understand what you are saying, and I don't want to put words in your mouth.

What I am hearing is that it is normal and natural for men have to have sexual desires, and if they are prevented from meeting those desires by rules or laws that they will become perverted.

Please tell me that is not what you said or meant.

Anti Rape Training!

I have seen it all now.

WHAT's NEXT ?

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: luthier

Well Rumi a very famous Sufi poet has said when you ignore the nafs they come up in perversion. Meaning the more repressive you are to human nature without care and thought the more bizare the perversions. Like the Catholic priest situation. You can't ignore sexual desire with only rules it also takes serious enlightened practice.

I don't understand what you are saying, and I don't want to put words in your mouth.

What I am hearing is that it is normal and natural for men have to have sexual desires, and if they are prevented from meeting those desires by rules or laws that they will become perverted.

Please tell me that is not what you said or meant.

No its not what I said it meant.

Basically everyone has wantings sexual or any other. When you pretend those wantings don't exist and have no real pathway of meditation and understanding of the self for instance a monster comes out.

Rumi is saying you have to admit to yourself wantings exist and if you are too puritanical without the safe exploration of what wantings are a monster comes out. Like denying sexual desire with only puritanical law doesn't work. You need to have self understanding to control yourself not puritanical law. You don't just read a book and then shame yourself for wanting something. It has to be a deeper understanding to completely deny the animal within.

This includes any sexual desire. Obviously rape is not included. But when you ignore the wantings without enlightened thinking it can lead to an overabundance of unsatisfied self that is overwhelmed with wanting.

Basically you can look at even physical anthropology and see even in the ape kingdom the more repressed especially sexually the more violent the more sexual like bonobos the less violent (mutual not forced)

So to some it up when you shame people for their desires it often creates perversion. Again not forced.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa


So long as this campaign you speak of is directed at everyone, then no it is not bigoted.

There is no need for it to be directed at *everyone,* citizens/residents

of these countries are already fully aware that rape is a crime and

there is a legal punishment for any one committing it, It is those entering

the country with the preconceived idea that it is Ok, a right ... that need

educating.

But if its directed specifically at Muslims, with the perception that white people don't usually commit rape... Then yes, its extremely bigoted, as well as deluded and naive.

It is directed to the new influx of residents (Muslims) because they are

not aware that it is a crime ...'white people' who rape already know

it is a crime ... but do so anyway.

I would imagine any Christian immigrants would not consider raping as it

is not part of their religion/culture?

Therefor neither bigoted deluded or naïve

If I am not wrong in their Hadiths the set of writings that help to understand the Quran, it tells the men of Islam that if a woman wears scanty clothes she is wanting you to rape her or that is is good to rape her.

This helps keep all women in a head to toe Burka if they don't want to be raped.

So you can't educate them because their laws are higher than any country and they submit to none but Islam.

You have to get rid of the Quran and Hadiths and that won't happen.

originally posted by: [post=20178853]eletheia

But if its directed specifically at Muslims, with the perception that white people don't usually commit rape... Then yes, its extremely bigoted, as well as deluded and naive.

It is directed to the new influx of residents (Muslims) because they are

not aware that it is a crime ...'white people' who rape already know

it is a crime ... but do so anyway.

I would imagine any Christian immigrants would not consider raping as it is not part of their religion/culture?

Therefor neither bigoted deluded or naïve

I would agree with you except to amend that these Muslims know very well it is a crime yet do so anyway.

We act like the USA is this bastion of awesomeness, yet 15-20% of all American women will be raped at least once in their lifetime. That's pretty shocking considering we'd like to think in America we know rape is wrong.

Rape prevalence among women in the U.S. (the percentage of women who experienced rape at least once in their lifetime so far) is in the range of 15–20%

Wikipedia

Apparently we might need some classes to about how rape is wrong, considering the stats.

It's always easier to point the finger at someone else that's worse to justify and ignore your own behavior. Alcoholics and drug addicts to it all the time, example: "Well, I'm not THAT bad of a drinker...I mean sure I have a drink as soon as I get up, but I'm not like that homeless bum under the bridge. I don't have a real problem or anything..." Dude, you're drinking just to get moving in the morning, you most certainly have a problem.

So, rape is a problem worldwide and even in our own 1st world country. It's little surprise to me that poorly educated refugees coming from bombed out and war torn anarchy *might* need a little more help than us Americans.

We'd rather look at everyone else than take a glance in the mirror at ourselves, especially in regards to Muslim refugees, they seem to be the hot ticket item to dog-pile lately.

a reply to: luthier
Thank you for explaining for me. I kept feeling that you were saying something different from what I was hearing.

I guess because it is a subject I am so close to, I am a bit more sensitive than most.

I can't wrap my head around the mind set that finds the sexual abuse of children as excusable, yet I hear it almost every day.

I am sure you have heard about the Bacha bazi (dancing boy), the movie The Kite Runner brought the practice briefly to the forefront, but it was just another oddity of culture that is already hated, so it was passed off as no big deal.

When the problem was brought up to the authorities and the Afghan Police, the response was “If they don’t [use] the [anuses] of those boys, what should they [use] the [vaginas] of their own grandmothers?" [alternate phrasing used to keep with the TOCs]

When the authorities turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to the cries of the children, what are we really fighting for? What have we become that we can allow excuses for this kind of evil?

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: luthier
Thank you for explaining for me. I kept feeling that you were saying something different from what I was hearing.

I guess because it is a subject I am so close to, I am a bit more sensitive than most.

I can't wrap my head around the mind set that finds the sexual abuse of children as excusable, yet I hear it almost every day.

I am sure you have heard about the Bacha bazi (dancing boy), the movie The Kite Runner brought the practice briefly to the forefront, but it was just another oddity of culture that is already hated, so it was passed off as no big deal.

When the problem was brought up to the authorities and the Afghan Police, the response was “If they don’t [use] the [anuses] of those boys, what should they [use] the [vaginas] of their own grandmothers?" [alternate phrasing used to keep with the TOCs]

When the authorities turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to the cries of the children, what are we really fighting for? What have we become that we can allow excuses for this kind of evil?

That has been my point in funding the states who do this.

You grow up without a safe exploration of sexual desire (self satisfying/solo) and you don't have a way of controlling those thoughts other than shame and it had led to perversion. Meaning not mutual desire not talkung about mutual kinky stuff. Likewise only living in sexual pleasure is self destructive. He is saying either learn a balance or learn to control yourself through self understanding not just mimicking a book without the thought of why it is being said.

The same thing went on in Christianity and every other faith that shames desire without enlightenment. When you can control your body like a monk or ascetic that's different than just following blindly. Since the reaffirmation of Christianity the whole wait until married to explore sex is just a suggestion. It's not a damning event that causes stoning or death.

originally posted by: strongfp

No rape in Sharia law?
Woman have freedoms in Saudi Arabia?

You gotta be joking. Or at least sarcastic.

You do know people can be raped in the home? By their spouse right.
You do know rape by family happens all the time, especially in Muslim nations, with Sharia law.

Just because it's not reported does not mean it's not happening. Out of sight out of mind is a sad excuse to ignore that rape happens everywhere, especially under Sharia law.

It is not reported because a woman doesn't have the 'right to deny a male'

Forcing a woman is not considered wrong ...

she does not have any rights ...'she is not worthy'


YES we in the west know ...


# people can be raped in their homes

# by their spouses

# rape by family

But if rape is not acknowledged as a crime, why would it be reported?
.
Its not reported, not because it isn't happening .... Its not reported

because it is 'considered' normal in their culture

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
We act like the USA is this bastion of awesomeness, yet 15-20% of all American women will be raped at least once in their lifetime. That's pretty shocking considering we'd like to think in America we know rape is wrong.

Rape prevalence among women in the U.S. (the percentage of women who experienced rape at least once in their lifetime so far) is in the range of 15–20%

Wikipedia

Apparently we might need some classes to about how rape is wrong, considering the stats.

It's always easier to point the finger at someone else that's worse to justify and ignore your own behavior. Alcoholics and drug addicts to it all the time, example: "Well, I'm not THAT bad of a drinker...I mean sure I have a drink as soon as I get up, but I'm not like that homeless bum under the bridge. I don't have a real problem or anything..." Dude, you're drinking just to get moving in the morning, you most certainly have a problem.

So, rape is a problem worldwide and even in our own 1st world country. It's little surprise to me that poorly educated refugees coming from bombed out and war torn anarchy *might* need a little more help than us Americans.

We'd rather look at everyone else than take a glance in the mirror at ourselves, especially in regards to Muslim refugees, they seem to be the hot ticket item to dog-pile lately.

It's quite different when the law doesn't recognize it as a crime though right? Yeah people rape everywhere. In the ME woman just don't have a voice to report it. That creates a cultural difference don't you think


It's a crime in the west it still happens. Not a crime in many ME countries and even if the male gets punished so is the female because she wasn't in the company of a man.

Can you really not tell the difference?

a reply to: MystikMushroom
Indeed it is a global evil that permeates every society and every culture, and has been so for years. Yet it still exists.

It boggles the mind that almost everyone will tell you know that its is wrong to rape an adult, and almost everyone says they would want to hand the rapist of a child, or infant, from the nearest tree. Yet it happens almost every second of every day, all around the world.

There has to be something inherently wrong with our very souls that this has been going on from the beginning of time, and occurs in every nook and cranny of our planet.

Maybe we are truly fooling ourselves. Maybe there is no natural goodness in us. The only goodness we seem to have is that which we have learned, nurtured and shared.

Maybe we truly are the spawn of an evil creator.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
This is disgusting, rape is one of the worst crimes in my opinion and anyone with this ideology needs to stay the hell away from my country.

I wish it was satire and not factual...My point is this is the view for many men over there, and a good reason why Norway is doing this.

originally posted by: RoyBatty

I would agree with you except to amend that these Muslims know very well it is a crime yet do so anyway.

When I go to the Middle East does that stop me from drinking liqueur? Nope, I feel it is my right to do just as these men feel the same with what they view as common social norms legal or illegal.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: MystikMushroom
Indeed it is a global evil that permeates every society and every culture, and has been so for years. Yet it still exists.

It boggles the mind that almost everyone will tell you know that its is wrong to rape an adult, and almost everyone says they would want to hand the rapist of a child, or infant, from the nearest tree. Yet it happens almost every second of every day, all around the world.

There has to be something inherently wrong with our very souls that this has been going on from the beginning of time, and occurs in every nook and cranny of our planet.

Maybe we are truly fooling ourselves. Maybe there is no natural goodness in us. The only goodness we seem to have is that which we have learned, nurtured and shared.

Maybe we truly are the spawn of an evil creator.

Well its complicated. A lot has to do with childhood and trauma. Human beings can return to the animal state after traumatic experience. Your village was pilferred woman raped you get traumatized and the psyche relates with the aggressor as a survival trait. That person was a survivor I am victim i dont want to be abused again. That is an identification process that is speculated to happen in yhe mind without thought. Mystics and psychologists as well as anthropologists and sociologists have worked on this subject. Truly repressing sexual desire is also a factor. I mean even mutual desire. It takes "deep thought" to control such a powerful natural species survival trait.

Luckily we have reason and are not just animals. Trauma can lead humans back to animals though. That can include starvation, war and violence, sexual abuse, physical abuse etc.

Rape in Islam

Rape In Islam

Wikipedia Qur'an There is no equivalent term for ‘rape’ in the Qur'an. Likewise, there is not a single verse in the Qur'an which even remotely discourages forced sex. In contrast, there are several verses in this book which give the green light to rape and other sexual crimes against women. Surah an-Nisa discusses lawful and forbidden women for pious Muslims. Before we delve into the particular verse, it should be noted that it is not easy to understand what is being suggested using the verse alone. Therefore, relying on authoritative Tafsirs (Qur'an interpretations) and Sahih (authentic) Hadiths associated with it, are necessary to get the exact picture.

Also a verse that describes captive forced rape, in front of husbands.

verse 4:24 was revealed to Muhammad. It was to encourage his fighters, who were reluctant, to have sexual contacts with female captives even while their husbands were alive as prisoners of war. This is made clear when we read: "Some of the Companions of the apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers." The Abu Dawud hadith is confirmed by the two Sahih collections, namely Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim.