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Let's talk about Muslims and Republicans.

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posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 07:35 AM
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originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: deadlyhope


There are a number of facets to this that are hardly discussed. I would suggest to muslins in this country not to get butt hurt to much. They are new here and haven't really contributed much during this nations historical formative years. Some have really big outspoken traps considering how very little if anything they have staked in the growing history of this country.

Now if a person wants to talk about the freedom of religion in this land ect, ect don't forget it was christianity that secured that. Christians for the very large part secured this and now are getting lectured.


Screw that. I'm not new here & neither are my family. We go back 6 & 8 generations here. And that's not including my Muscogee maternal line.

So no, we've been here for a long time. And Muslims played a huge part in the Civil Rights Movement, which has lasted a permanent effect on the growth of this country. So no, I disagree completely with your post.

EDIT to Add: In fact, around 15% of all African slaves sent to America were Muslims. One prominent example is a man named Adbul-Rahman, who was a Muslim prince who was enslaved w/some of his people in the late 1780s. After 40 years of enslavement, President John Quincy Adams ordered his release. There's a movie about his life called "Prince Among Slaves" and here's a wikipedia article to get you started on him.

Abdulrahman Ibrahim Ibn Sori

"Prince Among Slaves" IMDB page
edit on 22-12-2015 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-12-2015 by enlightenedservant because: added clarification & links




posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 09:58 AM
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originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: enlightenedservant




Here's the thing, why do you even care about the Prophet Muhammad? You're not a Muslim. And why does it matter if you can or can't publish a picture of him without consequences? Western countries have all kinds of laws preventing people from publishing images of people, with the threat of consequences for offenders. Isn't that the whole point in having to get legal permission before you can publish someone's image or likeness?

But that's the thing, people in the West can and do publish pictures of him. Or did you already forget the response from the Charlie Hebdo shootings? So what are you complaining about?

To me, it sounds like you just want to publish pictures of him to provoke Muslims. Most Muslims will just ignore it because your purpose would be obvious. But others will get angry, which is understandable. If I publish a sensitive picture of someone's loved one without their permission, they'd probably get pissed too.



And so what if I do? I can draw whatever the hell I want, and I should be able to draw a cartoon without fearing for my life. To take a cartoon as a provocation to murder or violence is fundamentally absurd, and goes against everything western society stands for. Do you accept that?


LOL So you completely ignore the fact that this same Western society can & will penalize you for publishing unauthorized images of people? And this same Western society will even imprison you for publishing unauthorized "revenge porn" pictures of someone. And this same western society will even arrest you for posting "anti-Semitic" images, as well (edit: depending on the country). But those don't count?

Besides, the first person killed in the Charlie Hebdo shooting was a MUSLIM security guard. As in, a Muslim was assigned to PROTECT the same business that was publishing images of the Prophet Muhammad. And that same Muslim died trying to convince the shooters not to go through with their crime. But none of that matters either, huh?


It doesn't matter what the religion was of the first man to be killed. What matters was that he was killed. He was murdered, so some Islamic extremists could enact their superstitious revenge.

And what caused those people to kill that man, their own brother, and the rest of their countrymen? A cartoon. Yes, a cartoon. A drawing. Ink on paper.


(Yawn)
Your replies are getting boring. You refuse to acknowledge the contradiction that you're against a backlash for publishing a specific type of image; even though Western society has plenty of rules to punish displaying certain images. Apparently, you have no problem with the Western examples. And note, there aren't even Western laws against publishing images of the Prophet.

In other words, you sound really petty & hypocritical. You won't even acknowledge that a Muslim was killed protecting the office of the company that was publishing images of the Prophet. So religion only matters to you when it suits your argument. Boring...


Again, who's killing others for a cartoon? Your avoidance of this fact is terrifying. Yes the security guard was Muslim, but since you're so interested, what is the religion of the people who picked up guns and murdered him and others, and what is the reason for them doing it? The west didn't kill those people for anti-Semitic cartoons. The west didn't pick up automatic firearms and gun them down for holocaust denial.

Your arguments are nonsense, neither right nor wrong, but your dismissal of Islamic extremism, and the great irrational lengths you're willing to go to do that, is nothing short of stupidity and extremist apology. Boring, and not to mention, poor poor taste.



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 02:35 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Why do you think would there be a Christian militia? After a quick read, it seems that Muslim rebels overthrew the government of that country, and went on a vicious anti-Christian rampage. When put in such a corner, of course people would fight back.


Ok, then. What do you think happens when you repeatedly drone bomb families of innocent women and kids with a larger kill rate than your actual targets??? Do you think they may feel like they're also being backed into a corner???



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 02:40 PM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman

I think you forgot to mention the Muslims overthrew the recognized government and slaughtered Christians before these revenge attack.
I am not justifying Christians killing, there is no room for that.
Just explaining that the Muslims are not innocent victims, it's a horrible mess and people are dying and you think it's about spring political points

Muslim, Christian they are all at fault.


You're exactly right. I'm not even saying who's fault any of it is. This is something that has gone on for a long time. I'm just pointing out that it's happening from both ends which is terrible.



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 04:53 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm




Ok, then. What do you think happens when you repeatedly drone bomb families of innocent women and kids with a larger kill rate than your actual targets??? Do you think they may feel like they're also being backed into a corner???


Bring up some figures and show yourself the numbers instead of blindly repeating a narrative of your choosing.



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 06:11 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

Bring up some figures and show yourself the numbers instead of blindly repeating a narrative of your choosing.


I respect your need for the numbers. I get that. But you're an intelligent guy and I like your posts here in most cases. Which is why I don't understand how this kind of information escapes your attention. Or if it's perhaps out of some sense of loyalty to a system that in truth probably sees you as a potential enemy as well??? Or that America is actually some white knights fighting with God's Good Will at your backs??? But that's a side issue for now I suppose. Here are your numbers and sources.



41 men targeted but 1,147 people killed: US drone strikes – the facts on the ground

The drones came for Ayman Zawahiri on 13 January 2006, hovering over a village in Pakistan called Damadola. Ten months later, they came again for the man who would become al-Qaida’s leader, this time in Bajaur. Eight years later, Zawahiri is still alive. Seventy-six children and 29 adults, according to reports after the two strikes, are not.

Finally, on 15 October 2010, Hellfire missiles fired from a Predator or Reaper drone killed Hussain, the Pakistani Taliban later confirmed. For the death of a man whom practically no American can name, the US killed 128 people, 13 of them children, none of whom it meant to harm.


You should read the whole article as well as it touches on what I'm trying to talk about beyond just who killed who.

Perhaps it's that you don't trust the media also. I can understand that as well as I myself don't always trust them either. So I recommend you watch the video's of our own soldiers who fly these drone missions who have the courage to speak out. Listen to them talk about how after a day of slaughter they have to drink themselves to sleep. How they refer to innocent children that get killed along with their targets as "Fun Sized Terrorists" or when it's multiple civilian deaths they joke about "Cutting the Grass".

Here's a couple more links. I'm familiar with what they speak about but haven't checked each one personally.
Obama-led drone strikes kill innocents 90% of the time
Drone strikes kill, maim and traumatize too many civilians, U.S. study says

Keep in mind if you would my point by showing this. I'm not here to sway you to the side of terrorist. Or to make an attempt at feeling sorry for killers. They are terrorists after all and kill and murder and maim and have no respect for life. But the idea that we are somehow the beacons of truth and justice is a fantasy. It's a myth and a dangerous one at that. It's the same myth that all Wars have their side believe while they slaughter millions. Which is all I'm trying to get across. The reality that we all have blood on our hands whether we like that or not and until we all face the reality of that nothing will ever change as we pass off that tradition to each and every following generation giving them the myth that allows them to kill and brutalize each other.
edit on 22-12-2015 by mOjOm because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 10:06 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

I see articles but no figures.

How about these? There is data.

Get the data: Drone wars

Definitely not the 90% women and children as you claim.

We don't have blood on our hands. People who pull the triggers do. My biggest gripe, evidenced by this thread, is people refuse to place the blame on the ones pulling the triggers, making a political statement out of no more than some sort of strange masochism. "We are all guilty". Yeah right.



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 10:43 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
"We are all guilty". Yeah right.


Yeah. Because those guys pulling the trigger are doing so in our name. Fighting for a Red White and Blue Christian America!!! But blowing up innocent civilians and children in their homeland. Their homeland where we both put dictators in to power for our own benefit and take them out of power again for our own benefit never considering the blow back effects or the fact that many of the terrorist groups that come to power use our weapons which we arm them with.

Then we have terrorists here killing innocent Americans and you scratch your head asking why they would do that. It couldn't possibly because we're killing their innocent countrymen and women over there, ya think???

The conservative christians calling for a Muslim Purge radicalizing even more them without ever stopping to ask themselves why they seem to be attacking us??? Both sides totally blind to what they're doing in prolonging and instilling even more hate.

You sit here and make excuse after excuse of how justified your side is when they kill, even when they kill other innocent people, then get outraged when our civilians get killed in retaliation. You're all f*cking insane is how it seems to me. I don't give a damn about which side thinks they have the most powerful invisible sky master either. Because from where I'm sitting both sides are nothing but fanatics fighting over who's story book of myths are better. Like watching Mother Goose and Dr. Seuss fight it out but with real innocent people getting killed.



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 10:52 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant




That's quite a lot of verbal gymnastics.

That is a kind way of calling me a liar, and a poor way to continue a conversation with someone you do not know. You asked questions I answered them to the best of my ability. If you don't like the answers too bad for you.



You're basically saying "real" Christians don't commit crimes, therefore the people committing crimes aren't "real" Christians. Why don't you use the same leeway with Muslims? Also, if a self identified Christian commits a crime or kills innocent civilians in wartime, it still counts as a Christian killing innocent civilians. Dead bystanders from a missile strike are the same, whether they be from terrorist missiles or US Air Force missiles.

I said christians are not perfect and make mistakes like anyone else. I did say true practicing christians do not commit crimes. I also gave the same respect to practicing muslims several times in my reply to your questions. I also told you I do not think true practicing christians would join the military as the militarys primary job is to kill people. I described the conscientious objector provisions we have in this country. If you are trying to justify terrorist activities by blaming civillians killed in war than you have a flawed argument. Killing is killing none of it is right and I don't think any true religion would justify killing.



As for the rape education info, are you serious? Do you seriously not know about the anti-rape programs that have existed throughout the West for our own citizens? As an example, there's a huge "Yes means Yes" initiative in California right now that aims to reduce rapes by educating people that a woman has to explicitly give consent to have sex. Does that not count? Because that's literally just one example of the West having to educate its own people that rape is wrong. And for the record, I don't put much weight into the UK story. If they really cared about sex crimes, they'd be prosecuting all of those child rapists in office, in clergy, in business, etc. Instead, that massive scandal has been hushed up.

As for the rape info YES I am serious. There is a gargantuan difference between a program and MANDATORY refugee training. You comparing the two is disingenuous and nothing more than an attempt to throw dirt on civilized society to make it as filthy as the scum that carry out these horrible heinous hate crimes. The fact that in the link for the Norway training you had someone tell a reporter that the police will not take action against someone who takes a woman in his country is ludicrous. The only people you will find that will say that in the US are in a institution for the insane. I also don't care how much weight you put in the UK gang rape story. The fact that you blow it off shows how jaded you are to the basic uncivilized problems that community has. You use yet another mysterious scandal to deflect the fact that 15 grown people raped a 14 year old child. Repeatedly gang raped a child and your reply is I don't put much weight in that. You continue to bury your head in the sand mr ostrich the middle east as a community has problems with the way females are treated. It is an entire culture of gender bigot enablers. This is happening right now in 2015 for crying out loud we all understand what basic human rights consist of and the right to not be raped is among them.



As for the cartels, I actually think they're a perfect comparison for groups like Boko Haram & ISIS. Boko Haram and ISIS make their money through extortion, smuggling, and human trafficking. The same for cartels. They're both just as heavily armed as the cartels, too. And like I mentioned, the Mexican cartels alone have killed at least 60,000 to 85,000 people just since 2006. And then there are the Italian Mafioso who are notoriously Catholic. The only difference in the cartels and groups like Boko Haram & ISIS is the way the media portrays them. Both categories incorporate religion into their horrific operations.

I do not disagree with you about this and stated so in my reply. ISIS no more represents Islam than the westborough baptist church represents christianity. The difference is when the westborough baptist church shows up now ALOT of protesters show up to counter them. That and as much hate and bigotry as the westborough baptist church spews THEY DON'T KILL ANYONE. Even the idiot preacher in charge of that church does not tell his people to KILL. Muslim protesters have begun to show up recently and that is good; hopefully their numbers will increase so the media will have no choice but to show them protesting violence.



No way buddy, you don't get to claim America isn't a Christian majority country. Every single poll & survey on the matter will prove you wrong. Here's 1 article showing that roughly 70% of Americans are Christians.

I did not say that the census says america is not a christian majority country; I said there are far fewer real christians than those statistics show.
Sticking feathers up your but does not make you a chicken.
In america anyone can call themselves a christan or a muslim.



Also, if you can use your judgment to determine that practicing Christians won't commit crimes, do I get to use my judgment to say the same thing about Muslims? As in, when practicing Muslims say the criminals are doing those things in spite of Islam, not because of it, will you take our judgment into account? Or does that not count?

Did you even read what I wrote?



I am sure most Muslims would disavow those heinous acts and respond that real Muslims would not do those things.

I would love to see Muslims protest ISIS. I would love to see Muslims protest the horrible culture the middle east has towards females. I have no doubt real Muslims do not excuse these horrible behaviors.



EDIT to Add: No hard feelings though. I'm actually enjoying the conversation. And I actually agree that practicing Muslims & practicing Christians won't do those things because those actions should betray their religious teachings. However, we don't get to decide who's a "real" believer. That's up to the individual & God. Therefore, I have to take them at their word, especially since different denominations & sects can have vastly different interpretations & leeway for what's acceptable behavior. As an example, racism should have no place in either religion. But that doesn't stop some adherents from being racist in spite of that.

I have no hard feeling toward you at all. In fact if I have questions about Islam I will be asking you as you at least talk about what is going on.



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 11:11 PM
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They kill us for mocking their god in cartoon form, we kill them for oil and to keep the dollar propped up.

What an insane world we live in...



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 12:20 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: enlightenedservant




Here's the thing, why do you even care about the Prophet Muhammad? You're not a Muslim. And why does it matter if you can or can't publish a picture of him without consequences? Western countries have all kinds of laws preventing people from publishing images of people, with the threat of consequences for offenders. Isn't that the whole point in having to get legal permission before you can publish someone's image or likeness?

But that's the thing, people in the West can and do publish pictures of him. Or did you already forget the response from the Charlie Hebdo shootings? So what are you complaining about?

To me, it sounds like you just want to publish pictures of him to provoke Muslims. Most Muslims will just ignore it because your purpose would be obvious. But others will get angry, which is understandable. If I publish a sensitive picture of someone's loved one without their permission, they'd probably get pissed too.



And so what if I do? I can draw whatever the hell I want, and I should be able to draw a cartoon without fearing for my life. To take a cartoon as a provocation to murder or violence is fundamentally absurd, and goes against everything western society stands for. Do you accept that?


LOL So you completely ignore the fact that this same Western society can & will penalize you for publishing unauthorized images of people? And this same Western society will even imprison you for publishing unauthorized "revenge porn" pictures of someone. And this same western society will even arrest you for posting "anti-Semitic" images, as well (edit: depending on the country). But those don't count?

Besides, the first person killed in the Charlie Hebdo shooting was a MUSLIM security guard. As in, a Muslim was assigned to PROTECT the same business that was publishing images of the Prophet Muhammad. And that same Muslim died trying to convince the shooters not to go through with their crime. But none of that matters either, huh?


It doesn't matter what the religion was of the first man to be killed. What matters was that he was killed. He was murdered, so some Islamic extremists could enact their superstitious revenge.

And what caused those people to kill that man, their own brother, and the rest of their countrymen? A cartoon. Yes, a cartoon. A drawing. Ink on paper.


(Yawn)
Your replies are getting boring. You refuse to acknowledge the contradiction that you're against a backlash for publishing a specific type of image; even though Western society has plenty of rules to punish displaying certain images. Apparently, you have no problem with the Western examples. And note, there aren't even Western laws against publishing images of the Prophet.

In other words, you sound really petty & hypocritical. You won't even acknowledge that a Muslim was killed protecting the office of the company that was publishing images of the Prophet. So religion only matters to you when it suits your argument. Boring...


Again, who's killing others for a cartoon? Your avoidance of this fact is terrifying. Yes the security guard was Muslim, but since you're so interested, what is the religion of the people who picked up guns and murdered him and others, and what is the reason for them doing it?

How am I avoiding this? I'm the one who pointed out that the 1st person killed was a Muslim who was protecting that place of business. Obviously the vast majority of Muslims ignore it when non-Muslims publish images of the Prophet; otherwise, there would be 1.6 billion Muslims immediately killing non-Muslims because of the Hebdo cartoons. Just as the main hero in the 2nd hostage situation that day was another Muslim. Clearly the vast majority of Muslims don't believe violence is the correct response to published images of the Prophet, which is what I pointed out.

And if me pointing this out to you is "terrifying" you, it says more about you than it does me. Then again, some people are irrationally scared of many things, so whatever.



Your arguments are nonsense, neither right nor wrong, but your dismissal of Islamic extremism, and the great irrational lengths you're willing to go to do that, is nothing short of stupidity and extremist apology. Boring, and not to mention, poor poor taste.

LOL Yeah whatever. Anyone who's seen my posts since I've joined ATS will know that I'm nothing close to being an "extremist apologist". But unlike the kneejerk bigots & the cowards who fear everything they don't understand, I prefer to learn the facts about a situation before running my mouth about them.



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 12:36 AM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

It really says something when a person is scared of someone of their own religion as they could be killed indiscriminately. Never have to worry about the Amish in the US.



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 12:54 AM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: Raggedyman
I have noted that atheists can be quite contemptible as well

Its not a religious thing, it all people across the spectrum, its this us them mentality
Everybody who disagrees with someone has to treat them as an enemy

Even sporting events

It IS a religious thing!
No one deliberately harms another unless he is host to some strain of 'belief' (religion) or other!


Tell that to Stalin, pol pot or Mao, all atheists with no beliefs

I'm sorry, but your strawman fails!
Just because someone MIGHT not have a 'belief' in a 'God', does NOT imply that they are 'belief free'!
People who 'believe' in 'democracy' and 'freedom' have committed all sorts of atrocity and mayhem upon their fellows and the planet!

And just a note about your 'claims', for one "Stalin was raised devout in the Greek Orthodox Church. His parents hoped he would become a priest." Something like that marks you for life, it is part of who you are!


It's so sad that you can't see ts all people not just one type of people

Aren't we being self-righteous and arrogantly vain! Typical Xtian...
And I have no clue what you are talking about, other than that you feel superior to me.
"I cant see "ts" all people"? Huh?
I didn't know people came in 'types'.
I guess they do to you...


There are no atheists in foxholes is what you are saying

I would never say such a wrong and foolish thing! It is far from true!
Another Xtian self-serving lie... (not accusing 'you', but anyone who would say that)!



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 01:18 AM
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a reply to: shooterbrody
I'll try to respond to each part of your reply, but I have to admit something. I just ran into quite a few old friends on social media & I'm eager to catch up with them lol. So hopefully I won't be too short w/the answers. I'm also working w/an initiative to unite the different American left wing independent political parties, but there's no guarantee they'll listen to my proposals
. Anyway, here's goes.



That is a kind way of calling me a liar, and a poor way to continue a conversation with someone you do not know. You asked questions I answered them to the best of my ability. If you don't like the answers too bad for you.

I wasn't calling you a liar. "Verbal gymnastics" is the wordplay politicians & spokesmen use, kind of like this:

Me: 2 + 2 = 4
Verbal Gymnast: Wait a second! 2+2 can also equal 2, 5 or 0. Stop making assumptions.
Me: Huh?
Verbal Gymnast:
1) A positive 2 added to a negative 2 equals 0.
2) 2.4 (rounded down to 2) added to 2.4 (rounded down to 2) would be 4.8, which is rounded up to 5.
3) If I have 2 dogs and 2 hamburgers, I'll be left with 2 dogs since they'll eat the hamburgers. Therefore, 2 plus 2 equals 2.
Me: ... That's a lot of verbal gymnastics. You know what I meant.



If you are trying to justify terrorist activities by blaming civillians killed in war than you have a flawed argument. Killing is killing none of it is right and I don't think any true religion would justify killing.

My apologies if you were giving respect to practicing Muslims, though it didn't read that way to me. As for this part, come one now. Not only am I a pacifist, but Muslims like myself are the biggest victims of those Wahhabi-Kharijite extremists. So no, you interpreted that the wrong way. People keep acting like Muslims are the violent ones, yet they completely ignore the everyday violence performed by non-Muslims. That's why I compared the murdered civilians from Air Force missiles and terrorist missiles. I see them both as equally horrific, not equally justified.



As for the rape info YES I am serious. There is a gargantuan difference between a program and MANDATORY refugee training. You comparing the two is disingenuous and nothing more than an attempt to throw dirt on civilized society to make it as filthy as the scum that carry out these horrible heinous hate crimes. ....

Are you intentionally misinterpreting my words? I'm against rape in all its forms, just as I'm against violence against women in all of its forms. The difference between us seems to be that I don't see any of these as isolated incidences. Every single country in the world has horrific rape & domestic violence stats. Even a single rape is one too many. So no, I don't put much weight into the outrage surrounding selective cases because they're all equally wrong to me. A "War on Rape" would be much more useful than a "War on Drugs".

In other words, I find it hypocritical that people make a huge deal about that case, but ignore all of the equally horrific cases going on in their own neighborhoods and extended families. One part of my world visions is to end all rape & domestic violence (and homelessness & world hunger). But even a simple look into the global stats makes it clear that those are global epidemics, not regional or religious ones.


I do not disagree with you about this and stated so in my reply. ISIS no more represents Islam than the westborough baptist church represents christianity. The difference is when the westborough baptist church shows up now ALOT of protesters show up to counter them. That and as much hate and bigotry as the westborough baptist church spews THEY DON'T KILL ANYONE. Even the idiot preacher in charge of that church does not tell his people to KILL. Muslim protesters have begun to show up recently and that is good; hopefully their numbers will increase so the media will have no choice but to show them protesting violence.

That's why I compare them to cartels & not groups like Westboro. Westboro is basically an organization that makes its money by suing people & groups that illegally violate its rights. I see them more as a law firm that provokes people into committing legal violations against them.

As for Muslims protesting ISIS: The Kurdish people are roughly 90% Muslims; the Syrian Army & Syrian people are more than 75% Muslims; the Iraqi people & Iraqi Army are majority Muslims; Hezbollah is mostly Muslims; Iran's military advisers are Muslims; Egypt's army is mostly Muslims; the Houthis in Yemen are mostly Muslims; and Chad & Nigeria's armies are both roughly half Muslims. All of those Muslim majority groups are waging literal wars against ISIS divisions right now. Why do people keep ignoring that? Asking non-violent or untrained civilians to oppose them is the same as asking non-violent or untrained civilians to oppose the Mafia, Yakuza, the Mexican cartels, or America's inner city street gangs. It would be suicide.



I did not say that the census says america is not a christian majority country; I said there are far fewer real christians than those statistics show. Sticking feathers up your but does not make you a chicken. In america anyone can call themselves a christan or a muslim.

I understand what you meant. I'm just trying to remind you that not all forms of Christianity follow the same interpretations. So even if someone doesn't fit your idea of a Christian, that doesn't stop them from being accepted Christians in another denomination. Some Christians actually believe that as long as you accept Christ as Lord & Savior, they can do virtually anything & it'll be forgiven. Just as some Muslims, particularly the Wahhabi-Kharijites, ignore the Qur'an's teachings against killing innocents, against killing other believers, against stealing, lying, etc. In my eyes, what they do isn't Islam. But in their eyes, I'm the one who's not a real Muslim. That's the point I was trying to make.


Did you even read what I wrote?

Must have missed that part. My bad.



I would love to see Muslims protest ISIS. I would love to see Muslims protest the horrible culture the middle east has towards females. I have no doubt real Muslims do not excuse these horrible behaviors.

Yes! I agree completely. Though it's worth noting that it's not everyone there who is anti-woman. Also, there are quite a few Muslim Women's Rights groups. In fact, there's an entire movement called "Islamic feminism" too. Here are a few sites & articles to learn more.

www.wisemuslimwomen.org...
www.clarionproject.org...#
www.mwlusa.org...
www.thenation.com...



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 01:20 AM
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originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: enlightenedservant

It really says something when a person is scared of someone of their own religion as they could be killed indiscriminately. Never have to worry about the Amish in the US.


The person most likely to kill someone is someone from their own community. The majority of people who kill Hindus in India are other Hindus. Same goes for Christians in Christian-majority countries.

EDIT: Though for the record, I don't fear them. God told me bluntly that the only one I need to fear is Him! LOL If He wants me safe, there's nothing anyone can do to harm me. And if He wants me harmed, there's nothing anyone can do to keep me safe. We have a funny bond lol
edit on 23-12-2015 by enlightenedservant because: typos suck. i blame obam... no, i blame romney & merkel



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 01:43 AM
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It is just a numbers game. In this case there are enough Muslim extremist that it is affecting the world. This does not suggest that 1.3 billion are extremest just that the numbers are high enough that we need to deal with it. Where the refugees are coming from is also where a high number of extremist are too that would love to come to America to do nothing other than kill and/or establish their own little Middle East right here including everything that goes against our laws, customs and morals. Once again this has nothing to do with Muslims that are not like this, so I do not see how they even play into the whole topic at all.

We can also say Republicans are the same way. They do not want the extremist to come into our country...end of story, but just like with Muslims we do have some that are extremist too with their views and say all kind of crazy crap about all Muslims. I think most democrats feel the same way but hey they can't say that because then they would be agreeing with the Republicans and we can't have that.



posted on Dec, 23 2015 @ 07:42 AM
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originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: Raggedyman
I have noted that atheists can be quite contemptible as well

Its not a religious thing, it all people across the spectrum, its this us them mentality
Everybody who disagrees with someone has to treat them as an enemy

Even sporting events

It IS a religious thing!
No one deliberately harms another unless he is host to some strain of 'belief' (religion) or other!


Tell that to Stalin, pol pot or Mao, all atheists with no beliefs

I'm sorry, but your strawman fails!
Just because someone MIGHT not have a 'belief' in a 'God', does NOT imply that they are 'belief free'!
People who 'believe' in 'democracy' and 'freedom' have committed all sorts of atrocity and mayhem upon their fellows and the planet!

And just a note about your 'claims', for one "Stalin was raised devout in the Greek Orthodox Church. His parents hoped he would become a priest." Something like that marks you for life, it is part of who you are!


It's so sad that you can't see ts all people not just one type of people

Aren't we being self-righteous and arrogantly vain! Typical Xtian...
And I have no clue what you are talking about, other than that you feel superior to me.
"I cant see "ts" all people"? Huh?
I didn't know people came in 'types'.
I guess they do to you...


There are no atheists in foxholes is what you are saying

I would never say such a wrong and foolish thing! It is far from true!
Another Xtian self-serving lie... (not accusing 'you', but anyone who would say that)!


The old but tried and trusted no true scotsmans argument

John cena said you can't see me, I can see through you

As for me, I am an evil sinner who deserves death, nothing righteous about me at all.
I turned to Jesus because I have nothing, deserve nothing



posted on Dec, 24 2015 @ 01:44 AM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman
The old but tried and trusted no true scotsmans argument

Sorry, invalid claim.!



John cena said you can't see me, I can see through you

Don't know him.
Means nothing to me.


As for me, I am an evil sinner who deserves death, nothing righteous about me at all.
I turned to Jesus because I have nothing, deserve nothing

I have heard all the vain, disingenuous/dishonest Polly-wanna-cracker sounds good, hope God's paying attention stuff before.
Keep telling yourself that...
I Am unimpressed.



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