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Let's talk about Muslims and Republicans.

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posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 10:49 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

Name one recent case of that occurring. If you want to argue the distant past, be my guest, but even a fool knows the distant past is not the present.


Tens of thousands of Muslims flee Christian militias in Central African Republic

It's happening. This isn't a one sided issue though which is the most important thing to take away from this. One side doesn't get to declare themselves the Good Guy or Bad Guy. There is radical acts of brutality on both sides as well as victims.




posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 12:15 AM
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a reply to: mOjOm

"Christians have also been victims of violence, targeted by Muslims in this complex communal conflict that U.N. and humanitarian officials fear could implode into genocide. Several hundred thousand Christians remain in crowded, squalid camps, unable or too afraid to return home."

You forgot that part of the article.



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 12:18 AM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: mOjOm

"Christians have also been victims of violence, targeted by Muslims in this complex communal conflict that U.N. and humanitarian officials fear could implode into genocide. Several hundred thousand Christians remain in crowded, squalid camps, unable or too afraid to return home."

You forgot that part of the article.


How did I leave that out?? They second and last sentence of my post is pointing that out. In fact that is why in the second line I even said the most important point to take away from this is that it's not one sided!!!

I don't know how much more I need to point it out???



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 12:24 AM
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a reply to: mOjOm

You sure pointed out the headline tens of thousands of muslims flee christian militias but left out the hundreds of thousands of christians in camps
tens of thousands =10,001-99,999
hundreds of thousands 100,001-999,999

If I told you I would pay you hundreds of thousands of dollars and only paid you tens of thousands of dollars you would notice.



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 12:27 AM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: mOjOm

You sure pointed out the headline tens of thousands of muslims flee christian militias but left out the hundreds of thousands of christians in camps
tens of thousands =10,001-99,999
hundreds of thousands 100,001-999,999

If I told you I would pay you hundreds of thousands of dollars and only paid you tens of thousands of dollars you would notice.


That was the title of the article. If you have a problem with what the article was titled bring it up with the people who printed it.

It was also directed specifically toward a member who wanted evidence of such an event taking place.

Sorry if it offends you but the title is the title of the article. Deal with it.



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 12:35 AM
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originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: mOjOm

You sure pointed out the headline tens of thousands of muslims flee christian militias but left out the hundreds of thousands of christians in camps
tens of thousands =10,001-99,999
hundreds of thousands 100,001-999,999

If I told you I would pay you hundreds of thousands of dollars and only paid you tens of thousands of dollars you would notice.


That was the title of the article. If you have a problem with what the article was titled bring it up with the people who printed it.

It was also directed specifically toward a member who wanted evidence of such an event taking place.

Sorry if it offends you but the title is the title of the article. Deal with it.


The title didn't offend me.
You being disingenuous by linking an article from 2014 and acting as if it happened yesterday and comparing tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands did.



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 12:40 AM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody

The title didn't offend me.
You being disingenuous by linking an article from 2014 and acting as if it happened yesterday and comparing tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands did.



WTF man??? How is it disingenuous for me to post the exact title of the article I'm using??? The person I was posting it to asked for a recent example instead of one from the Crusades or Inquisition. Something from just 1 year ago qualifies perfectly fine. I never once implied that it was from a day, week or even a month ago. I didn't imply anything at all of that nature.

I don't care if you don't like it. I wasn't disingenuous or misleading in any way. If you don't like my example, all I can say is too damn bad!!! I guess you'll just have to deal with it and move on because I'm not changing it for you. It wasn't meant for you in the first place. Why not let the person it was meant for respond to it first before you lose you're sh*t over it. I don't know what else to tell you.



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 12:51 AM
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Same tired "everyone is bad" argument. When you can't find reasons to make a point make everyone bad then no one is good.

Comparing the number of victims from radical islam against all other religions is a joke and you know it.
Where are people from other religions beheading people, crucifying people, raping people?



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 12:59 AM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody
Same tired "everyone is bad" argument.


Nope, that's still not what I'm saying.



Where are people from other religions beheading people, crucifying people, raping people?


Try opening a history book. Both Religious and Non-Religious Groups have been doing those things throughout history at one time or another. Not all at the same time obviously. Don't believe me, fine. Then believe whatever you want.

I'm out.



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 01:20 AM
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originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: enlightenedservant




Here's the thing, why do you even care about the Prophet Muhammad? You're not a Muslim. And why does it matter if you can or can't publish a picture of him without consequences? Western countries have all kinds of laws preventing people from publishing images of people, with the threat of consequences for offenders. Isn't that the whole point in having to get legal permission before you can publish someone's image or likeness?

But that's the thing, people in the West can and do publish pictures of him. Or did you already forget the response from the Charlie Hebdo shootings? So what are you complaining about?

To me, it sounds like you just want to publish pictures of him to provoke Muslims. Most Muslims will just ignore it because your purpose would be obvious. But others will get angry, which is understandable. If I publish a sensitive picture of someone's loved one without their permission, they'd probably get pissed too.



And so what if I do? I can draw whatever the hell I want, and I should be able to draw a cartoon without fearing for my life. To take a cartoon as a provocation to murder or violence is fundamentally absurd, and goes against everything western society stands for. Do you accept that?


LOL So you completely ignore the fact that this same Western society can & will penalize you for publishing unauthorized images of people? And this same Western society will even imprison you for publishing unauthorized "revenge porn" pictures of someone. And this same western society will even arrest you for posting "anti-Semitic" images, as well (edit: depending on the country). But those don't count?

Besides, the first person killed in the Charlie Hebdo shooting was a MUSLIM security guard. As in, a Muslim was assigned to PROTECT the same business that was publishing images of the Prophet Muhammad. And that same Muslim died trying to convince the shooters not to go through with their crime. But none of that matters either, huh?


It doesn't matter what the religion was of the first man to be killed. What matters was that he was killed. He was murdered, so some Islamic extremists could enact their superstitious revenge.

And what caused those people to kill that man, their own brother, and the rest of their countrymen? A cartoon. Yes, a cartoon. A drawing. Ink on paper.



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 01:25 AM
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originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

Name one recent case of that occurring. If you want to argue the distant past, be my guest, but even a fool knows the distant past is not the present.


Tens of thousands of Muslims flee Christian militias in Central African Republic

It's happening. This isn't a one sided issue though which is the most important thing to take away from this. One side doesn't get to declare themselves the Good Guy or Bad Guy. There is radical acts of brutality on both sides as well as victims.


Why do you think would there be a Christian militia? After a quick read, it seems that Muslim rebels overthrew the government of that country, and went on a vicious anti-Christian rampage. When put in such a corner, of course people would fight back.


The Seleka weren’t an overtly religious movement, but they were mostly Muslim, as was Michel Djotodia, the president they installed in March 2013 after taking power. The fighters that ushered in Djotodia ran wild across the country during his time in office, plundering villages and killing Christians as well as supporters of the former president Francois Bozize.[17]

In September 2013 Michel Djotodia announced that Seleka had been dissolved.[18] The disbanded group has dispersed into the countryside and have been committing mass atrocities according to Human Rights Watch.[19][20][21][22][23] Executions, rape and looting by ex-Seleka fighters after the coup and disbanding have fomented religious tension where the population is 80% Christian.[24] Christian militias, using the name anti-balaka, have been formed to fight the Muslim Seleka.[8][9][19] The United Nations is considering sending troops to stop the atrocities.[25] On November 26, France indicated that it would boost its presence an additional 1,000 soldiers in the Central African Republic to augment its existent 400 troops if it receives U.N. backing.[26]

Séléka

Edit to add:

After further reading, it turns out this story is worse than I thought, and highly under reported. The conditions are near-genocidal. We shouldn't use this as an example to further our petty debates here, but it's worth it to have the knowledge that this is going on.

we live and die like animals
edit on 22-12-2015 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 02:20 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: enlightenedservant




Here's the thing, why do you even care about the Prophet Muhammad? You're not a Muslim. And why does it matter if you can or can't publish a picture of him without consequences? Western countries have all kinds of laws preventing people from publishing images of people, with the threat of consequences for offenders. Isn't that the whole point in having to get legal permission before you can publish someone's image or likeness?

But that's the thing, people in the West can and do publish pictures of him. Or did you already forget the response from the Charlie Hebdo shootings? So what are you complaining about?

To me, it sounds like you just want to publish pictures of him to provoke Muslims. Most Muslims will just ignore it because your purpose would be obvious. But others will get angry, which is understandable. If I publish a sensitive picture of someone's loved one without their permission, they'd probably get pissed too.



And so what if I do? I can draw whatever the hell I want, and I should be able to draw a cartoon without fearing for my life. To take a cartoon as a provocation to murder or violence is fundamentally absurd, and goes against everything western society stands for. Do you accept that?


LOL So you completely ignore the fact that this same Western society can & will penalize you for publishing unauthorized images of people? And this same Western society will even imprison you for publishing unauthorized "revenge porn" pictures of someone. And this same western society will even arrest you for posting "anti-Semitic" images, as well (edit: depending on the country). But those don't count?

Besides, the first person killed in the Charlie Hebdo shooting was a MUSLIM security guard. As in, a Muslim was assigned to PROTECT the same business that was publishing images of the Prophet Muhammad. And that same Muslim died trying to convince the shooters not to go through with their crime. But none of that matters either, huh?


It doesn't matter what the religion was of the first man to be killed. What matters was that he was killed. He was murdered, so some Islamic extremists could enact their superstitious revenge.

And what caused those people to kill that man, their own brother, and the rest of their countrymen? A cartoon. Yes, a cartoon. A drawing. Ink on paper.


(Yawn)
Your replies are getting boring. You refuse to acknowledge the contradiction that you're against a backlash for publishing a specific type of image; even though Western society has plenty of rules to punish displaying certain images. Apparently, you have no problem with the Western examples. And note, there aren't even Western laws against publishing images of the Prophet.

In other words, you sound really petty & hypocritical. You won't even acknowledge that a Muslim was killed protecting the office of the company that was publishing images of the Prophet. So religion only matters to you when it suits your argument. Boring...



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 02:36 AM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody
Same tired "everyone is bad" argument. When you can't find reasons to make a point make everyone bad then no one is good.

Comparing the number of victims from radical islam against all other religions is a joke and you know it.
Where are people from other religions beheading people, crucifying people, raping people?

Raping people? You realize the US is a Christian majority nation, right? 1 in 6 American women have been or will be raped. Supposed Christians make up the majority of those rapists. Rape is a global catastrophe regardless of the religion, nationality, or ideology.

As for Christians beheading people, have you looked into the Mexican cartels? Here's one Christian cartel, the Knights Templar Cartel, which beheads & mutilates its victims. They are just one of the Christian-majority cartels that have been doing this since the start of the 2006 Mexican Cartel Wars. Note, these Cartel Wars have claimed 60,000 to 85,000 murder victims since 2006.

Knights Templar gunmen are believed to be behind most of the 480 drug-related murders in Michoacan in the last 18 months, including dozens of decapitated or dismembered victims.
Saint, knights and crystal meth; Mexico's bizarre cartel

I'm also curious about something: Do you count the crimes & slaughters committed by Christians if they're doing those actions for reasons other than religion? As in, if a Christian kills his wife & kids, does that count to you? Or if a Christian is part of a military operation that kills civilians, does that count to you? Because I notice a lot of selective BS here about that.

The US is a Christian majority nation and the vast majority of its criminals are Christians. Do their crimes also count to you? Because more than 10,000 people are killed in the US every year, and guess who does the vast majority of those homicides?

Also, our Christian-majority nation has a war policy of "collateral damage", where murdered civilians aren't even considered human victims. How many tens of thousands of "collateral damage" victims have Western Christians killed since 9/11? Do you even care? More than 80,000 civilians have been killed in Afghanistan since 9/11, some even by Christian former classmates & friends of mine who went to go "get revenge" against Muslims during the War on Terror. Do they count to you, either?
edit on 22-12-2015 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 02:45 AM
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The Catholic Church sexual abuse cases are a series of 20th-21st century cases of child sexual abuse crimes (and subsequent cover-ups) committed by Catholic priests, nuns, and members of the Roman Catholic orders. The numerous allegations, investigations, trials and convictions include crimes against boys and girls, some as young as 3 years old, with the majority between the ages of 11 and 14.[1][2][3][4] The accusations began to receive wide publicity in the late 1980s. Many relate to cases in which a figure was accused of abuse for decades; such allegations were frequently made by adults or older youths years after the abuse occurred. Cases have also been brought against members of the Catholic hierarchy who covered up sex abuse allegations, moving allegedly abusive priests to other parishes, where abuse sometimes continued.[5][6]


en.m.wikipedia.org...



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 03:14 AM
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originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: shooterbrody
Same tired "everyone is bad" argument. When you can't find reasons to make a point make everyone bad then no one is good.

Comparing the number of victims from radical islam against all other religions is a joke and you know it.
Where are people from other religions beheading people, crucifying people, raping people?

Raping people? You realize the US is a Christian majority nation, right? 1 in 6 American women have been or will be raped. Supposed Christians make up the majority of those rapists. Rape is a global catastrophe regardless of the religion, nationality, or ideology.

As for Christians beheading people, have you looked into the Mexican cartels? Here's one Christian cartel, the Knights Templar Cartel, which beheads & mutilates its victims. They are just one of the Christian-majority cartels that have been doing this since the start of the 2006 Mexican Cartel Wars. Note, these Cartel Wars have claimed 60,000 to 85,000 murder victims since 2006.

Knights Templar gunmen are believed to be behind most of the 480 drug-related murders in Michoacan in the last 18 months, including dozens of decapitated or dismembered victims.
Saint, knights and crystal meth; Mexico's bizarre cartel

I'm also curious about something: Do you count the crimes & slaughters committed by Christians if they're doing those actions for reasons other than religion? As in, if a Christian kills his wife & kids, does that count to you? Or if a Christian is part of a military operation that kills civilians, does that count to you? Because I notice a lot of selective BS here about that.

The US is a Christian majority nation and the vast majority of its criminals are Christians. Do their crimes also count to you? Because more than 10,000 people are killed in the US every year, and guess who does the vast majority of those homicides?

Also, our Christian-majority nation has a war policy of "collateral damage", where murdered civilians aren't even considered human victims. How many tens of thousands of "collateral damage" victims have Western Christians killed since 9/11? Do you even care? More than 80,000 civilians have been killed in Afghanistan since 9/11, some even by Christian former classmates & friends of mine who went to go "get revenge" against Muslims during the War on Terror. Do they count to you, either?

Rape is a global catastrophe regardless of the religion, it is a heinous horrible hate crime. I will take your stats at your word. I have however never heard of people having to be educated to understand rape is wrong. hotair.com...
Should I post links to gang rape problems in the UK or in refugee camps in Germany? These were done by "supposed muslims".
I am sure most Muslims would disavow those heinous acts and respond that real Muslims would not do those things. As the US is a "Christian-majority" nation I would advise you that a true practicing Christian would not do those things either.

If you intend to hold up drug cartels as practicing Christians I have no idea what you are thinking. You seem to be educated and you seem to understand that one could not be in a drug cartel and be a true practicing Christian. Could one be a true Muslim and be in a drug cartel? Comparing drug cartel christians with practicing christians is like comparing ISIS to the mosque down the street. You do not appreciate the comparison so why would you think a christian would?

You asked if crimes and slaughters not done for religion count. As far as I know a practicing Christian would not commit any crimes or kill anyone. I would submit there is no room in christianity for any killing at all. We have conscientious objectors: an "individual who has claimed the right to refuse to perform military service"[1] on the grounds of freedom of thought, conscience, disability, and/or religion.[2] In general, conscientious objector status is only considered in the context of military conscription and is not applicable to volunteer military forces. So our government will not make you kill anyone.
Christians make mistakes like anyone else; no one is perfect; but you won't want a life of crime if you are a true practicing christian.
I am confused as to what you want to count and not count. I think war from a christian perspective is murder. It would not matter if it was a soldier or a civilian it is killing and that is not acceptable.

I would argue that the US is not a "Christian-majority" nation as you say. Many people in the US claim to be Christians while few actually are.



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 03:17 AM
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a reply to: woodwardjnr

Yes that happened.
And the entire nation finally stood up to that crap. Although it took way too long for that to happen.



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 06:09 AM
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a reply to: deadlyhope


There are a number of facets to this that are hardly discussed. I would suggest to muslins in this country not to get butt hurt to much. They are new here and haven't really contributed much during this nations historical formative years. Some have really big outspoken traps considering how very little if anything they have staked in the growing history of this country.

Now if a person wants to talk about the freedom of religion in this land ect, ect don't forget it was christianity that secured that. Christians for the very large part secured this and now are getting lectured.



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 07:24 AM
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originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: Raggedyman
I have noted that atheists can be quite contemptible as well

Its not a religious thing, it all people across the spectrum, its this us them mentality
Everybody who disagrees with someone has to treat them as an enemy

Even sporting events

It IS a religious thing!
No one deliberately harms another unless he is host to some strain of 'belief' (religion) or other!


Tell that to Stalin, pol pot or Mao, all atheists with no beliefs

It's so sad that you can't see ts all people not just one type of people

There are no atheists in foxholes is what you are saying



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 07:25 AM
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a reply to: shooterbrody

That's quite a lot of verbal gymnastics. You're basically saying "real" Christians don't commit crimes, therefore the people committing crimes aren't "real" Christians. Why don't you use the same leeway with Muslims? Also, if a self identified Christian commits a crime or kills innocent civilians in wartime, it still counts as a Christian killing innocent civilians. Dead bystanders from a missile strike are the same, whether they be from terrorist missiles or US Air Force missiles.

As for the rape education info, are you serious? Do you seriously not know about the anti-rape programs that have existed throughout the West for our own citizens? As an example, there's a huge "Yes means Yes" initiative in California right now that aims to reduce rapes by educating people that a woman has to explicitly give consent to have sex. Does that not count? Because that's literally just one example of the West having to educate its own people that rape is wrong. And for the record, I don't put much weight into the UK story. If they really cared about sex crimes, they'd be prosecuting all of those child rapists in office, in clergy, in business, etc. Instead, that massive scandal has been hushed up.

As for the cartels, I actually think they're a perfect comparison for groups like Boko Haram & ISIS. Boko Haram and ISIS make their money through extortion, smuggling, and human trafficking. The same for cartels. They're both just as heavily armed as the cartels, too. And like I mentioned, the Mexican cartels alone have killed at least 60,000 to 85,000 people just since 2006. And then there are the Italian Mafioso who are notoriously Catholic. The only difference in the cartels and groups like Boko Haram & ISIS is the way the media portrays them. Both categories incorporate religion into their horrific operations.



I would argue that the US is not a "Christian-majority" nation as you say. Many people in the US claim to be Christians while few actually are.

No way buddy, you don't get to claim America isn't a Christian majority country. Every single poll & survey on the matter will prove you wrong. Here's 1 article showing that roughly 70% of Americans are Christians.

To be sure, the United States remains home to more Christians than any other country in the world, and a large majority of Americans – roughly seven-in-ten – continue to identify with some branch of the Christian faith.1 But the major new survey of more than 35,000 Americans by the Pew Research Center finds that the percentage of adults (ages 18 and older) who describe themselves as Christians has dropped by nearly eight percentage points in just seven years, from 78.4% in an equally massive Pew Research survey in 2007 to 70.6% in 2014. Over the same period, the percentage of Americans who are religiously unaffiliated – describing themselves as atheist, agnostic or “nothing in particular” – has jumped more than six points, from 16.1% to 22.8%.

America’s Changing Religious Landscape

Also, if you can use your judgment to determine that practicing Christians won't commit crimes, do I get to use my judgment to say the same thing about Muslims? As in, when practicing Muslims say the criminals are doing those things in spite of Islam, not because of it, will you take our judgment into account? Or does that not count?

EDIT to Add: No hard feelings though. I'm actually enjoying the conversation. And I actually agree that practicing Muslims & practicing Christians won't do those things because those actions should betray their religious teachings. However, we don't get to decide who's a "real" believer. That's up to the individual & God. Therefore, I have to take them at their word, especially since different denominations & sects can have vastly different interpretations & leeway for what's acceptable behavior. As an example, racism should have no place in either religion. But that doesn't stop some adherents from being racist in spite of that.
edit on 22-12-2015 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2015 @ 07:32 AM
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originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

Name one recent case of that occurring. If you want to argue the distant past, be my guest, but even a fool knows the distant past is not the present.


Tens of thousands of Muslims flee Christian militias in Central African Republic

It's happening. This isn't a one sided issue though which is the most important thing to take away from this. One side doesn't get to declare themselves the Good Guy or Bad Guy. There is radical acts of brutality on both sides as well as victims.


I think you forgot to mention the Muslims overthrew the recognized government and slaughtered Christians before these revenge attack.
I am not justifying Christians killing, there is no room for that.
Just explaining that the Muslims are not innocent victims, it's a horrible mess and people are dying and you think it's about spring political points

Muslim, Christian they are all at fault.



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