It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Let's talk about Muslims and Republicans.

page: 1
14
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 01:00 AM
link   
So, recently I've been seeing threads, posts, articles and such mentioning that Muslims are inherently unable to be patriotic Americans, unable to assimilate to our laws and our ways, and otherwise just incompatible with America in general. I will agree that no one that desires sharia law over our laws should be welcomed with open arms and given a platform in which to convert others to said thinking - but I haven't seen anyone advocate for this yet so let's stay on a reasonable topic.

Religion is not very consistent over a long period of time, it's up for interpretation, people pick and choose what parts they follow - we see this all the time within the mainstream Christianity beliefs in the United states. There's many different religions, cut offs, etc based on the same Bible - yet we still wonder how all Muslims do not interpret their own holy book as one encouraging violence towards non believers ..? ( while we are on the topic of violence and war .. , have you actually read the Bible?)

To think that an entire group acts one way because of one interpretation of one book is ludicrous... why are we assuming all Muslims will interpret the book in the same way radicals do? The Bible is used to justify hatred, bigotry, and discrimination all the time, but not every Christian chooses to interpret it the same way some do.. I've actually seen a small amount act like the Christ they are supposed to emulate.

Extremism can be found within any belief system, it's a human problem, it's inevitable. There's been wars and hatred over land, power, color of skin/ethnicity, yet we seem to want to point our fingers at religion and call it the problem.... I argue that point. Religion gives people an excuse, it may back their own thoughts, it may be the fuel but they are still the engine. Each individual person interprets religious texts in the way they choose, and I believe how the choose to interpret said information defines who they are, what they're made of.

It's getting late.

My point is - Christianity breeds bigoted assholes in the same way Muslim breeds terrorists - it's the person doing the interpreting, not the religion itself. We should point fingers at extreme people, and not use a broad brush - not against any group of people.

Hope everyone had a good weekend

Oh, edit, the reason the title says Republicans is because of the articles by them, and the legislation some want.

-deadlyhope
edit on 21-12-2015 by deadlyhope because: (no reason given)



+2 more 
posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 01:25 AM
link   
I have noted that atheists can be quite contemptible as well

Its not a religious thing, it all people across the spectrum, its this us them mentality
Everybody who disagrees with someone has to treat them as an enemy

Even sporting events



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 01:30 AM
link   
a reply to: Raggedyman

Exactly. It's a heart thing. It's character, it's deep within a person and cannot be simply judged as coming from one source..to go on and dispute that the source is causing problems is incorrect, I'd say. I don't give a damn who wins or loses the super bowl. Some people will commit crimes over it.



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 01:49 AM
link   
a reply to: deadlyhope

OP, you are just about as bad as they are. You bring a huge disservice to people here and to humanity at large by peddling this trash.

No, lets not talk about this. It is just BS from BS merchants that has no real meaning. You let this stuff infect your head. You know you have your own mind. You don't have to be an empty vessel there for the taking by anyone who wants to implant their hatred, discrimination, agenda.



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 01:53 AM
link   
a reply to: deadlyhope

I think it is vital to remember at all times, that demography does not define a person. It only describes one facet of one aspect of a many faceted thing, and as such is useless as a metric to judge a person by.

I have met some fantastic people in my life, from all over the world, and from every conceivable religious background, financial strata, of every possible gender, sexual preference, political affiliation and skin colour, and the one thing that links them all together, is that judging any of them by the demography one might associate them with, is a pig ignorant, stupid, shallow, foolish, and invalid approach. I know this because meeting these people over the years has been an honour, and I am the better for having met every one of them.

Another way to look at this, involves me, as a person.

In unfamiliar surroundings, an unfamiliar bar let's say, with unfamiliar people around me, where people do not know me or my way of life, I am often looked upon with great suspicion. Long hair and beard, long coat, all in black... They make assumptions about my character based on my appearance, something I would never do. Many of them do not take the time to challenge their conception of what I am, or who I am, preferring to continue to hold their erroneous beliefs about me instead. Others may attempt to challenge their preconceptions, by engaging me in conversation, normally leading in with "So...you know you look like Jesus and Darth Vader had a love child and abandoned it in the Hellraiser universe, right?", or some such blather, which is nearly as good as never having begun a conversation at all.

There will be the rare few who merely approach me as they might another human being, with a greeting which does not mock the stereotype they believe I fit into, or make clear their assumptions about me. Personally speaking, I believe it is right and proper to assume nothing about others, no matter how they dress, how they worship, how they like their drinks, or how they like their steak, or for any other reason. But the simple act of engaging me in proper conversation, absent assumptive beginnings, is enough for me to know that an individual is worth getting to know.

That being said, the best friend I ever had commented upon seeing me at a bar for the first time "What the #%^+ is THAT?", so even this metric does not always lend itself to accuracy!

Let us abandon judgement of one another, that we might retain our good judgement of other, more important things, like our leaders, financiers, those with whom our nation does business in war, those with whom our nation does deals for arms and armour. Let us more closely examine the world around us, the parts of it we have a REAL responsibility toward. You see, it is EASY to make erroneous and invalid assumptions about others. It takes no effort to be a total moron, and such things are the purview of morons. It is much harder, and much more valid, to examine the world around us with exacting detail, to look upon the things which are hard to change, and change them, rather than to take the path of least resistance, least thought, least validity, and most error.



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 01:59 AM
link   
a reply to: TrueBrit

You said it better than I did. Thanks truebrit



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 02:04 AM
link   
a reply to: Revolution9

Huh?

You don't know me.

I'm for talking about things and putting them in the open, and I'll continue to do so despite your erroneous assumptions about me.

I've seen topics on this, this is a current political issue, and it is important.

Why is it important? Some people seek to deny freedoms to others based on religion.

Some people seek to deny freedoms to others, religion being the source of the opinion.

There is significance in both of these statements in my opinion, no one should be using religion against others, nor be against others based on religion - nor any other small facet of a person. Do you disagree?



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 02:13 AM
link   

originally posted by: Revolution9
a reply to: deadlyhope

OP, you are just about as bad as they are. You bring a huge disservice to people here and to humanity at large by peddling this trash.

No, lets not talk about this. It is just BS from BS merchants that has no real meaning. You let this stuff infect your head. You know you have your own mind. You don't have to be an empty vessel there for the taking by anyone who wants to implant their hatred, discrimination, agenda.


There's nothing wrong with the OP. I don't know what you read but he's basically saying we should try and view the things people do based upon the person and not some group where they might be getting their ideas from.

I think that's fair. I also think it's fair to take into account the setting from which such ideas come from if there is a repeat pattern as well. For example if you have multiple people from the same church or temple or club or fraternity etc. Then you should also then look to see why that specific sub group is reacting different than the rest. Since there is a repeat of individuals being spawned with a repeat pattern unlike the rest it could be localized there with what they teach.

Like Westborrow Church obviously has their own style of teaching which produces a type of Radical Christian follower which varies quite a bit from the typical one. Non-Violent though so far. Even still if one of their members was to commit some criminal act you wouldn't jump right to blaming the whole church or all of Christian teaching. If more of their members followed suit then you should probably look into that one church and find out what the problem is but still leave the rest of Christianity alone.
edit on 21-12-2015 by mOjOm because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 02:52 AM
link   

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Revolution9

Huh?

You don't know me.

I'm for talking about things and putting them in the open, and I'll continue to do so despite your erroneous assumptions about me.

I've seen topics on this, this is a current political issue, and it is important.

Why is it important? Some people seek to deny freedoms to others based on religion.

Some people seek to deny freedoms to others, religion being the source of the opinion.

There is significance in both of these statements in my opinion, no one should be using religion against others, nor be against others based on religion - nor any other small facet of a person. Do you disagree?


I think it is his standard knee jerk reaction to any thread with muslim in the title as I have seen it a few times in other threads. And I agree with your assessment of the situation in your OP.




posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 04:12 AM
link   
I am a Christian, I have two close friends who are Muslim, both have their faults, as I do.
But as for genuine, sincere normal people

Neither can fish for crap though they enjoy fishing

Yeah there are always going to be exceptions, hate breeds exceptions

Fundamental non believers are just as bad



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 04:38 AM
link   
The difference is Christianity built (invaded) America and we've got 250 years of drowning out the rhetoric of that particular religion.

So I ask everyone with the kneejerk compulsion to defend Islam by comparing it to Christianity... If the west is this far ahead of Christianity and it's nonsensical fundamentals, in which many people of your like mind have been at the forefront of disolving, why should we feel the need to reset the clock for a foreign religion that is just as extreme as Christianity was 250 years ago and that %98 of modern Americans do not individually adhere to, having established beliefs of their own that are every bit as relevant and far more ignored and disrespected by those defending Islam?

We don't need more excuses for barbarism.
edit on 21-12-2015 by rexsblues because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 04:52 AM
link   
a reply to: deadlyhope

Not better, just differently.

But thanks anyway deadlyhope!



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 06:47 AM
link   
a reply to: rexsblues

It is about protecting an individuals right to follow Islam. It has nothing to do with protecting Islam. I have several Muslim friends who dress like Westerners and they are certainly not barbaric or 250 years behind the times.



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 06:53 AM
link   

originally posted by: deliberator
a reply to: rexsblues

It is about protecting an individuals right to follow Islam. It has nothing to do with protecting Islam. I have several Muslim friends who dress like Westerners and they are certainly not barbaric or 250 years behind the times.


THIS! So many confuse protecting the right to follow Islam as defending the practices of EVERY Muslim and their religious beliefs in the world. It gets rather tedious trying to keep this distinction present in the conversation since so many people don't bother to distinguish between the two.



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 07:06 AM
link   
Same dualistic insanity creating team against team based on faith. A lot of blind white washing is going on since people cannot say divinely inspired instead of the objective all spanning truth. Saying divinely inspired shows that the religion is a false idol of the real deal even if the religion sometimes can be used as a map to become aware of the unknown.

From my point of view:
Judaism pushes dogmatically towards Zionism since they do not uphold the golden rule.
Paul pushes dogmatically towards hate of others since no one can be divine except those who follow Jesus.
Muhammad pushes towards dualistic hate of others since you are Kafir if you do not acknowledge him as the last prophet. A way to force people to follow him.

Yeshua can live in peace with buddhist, Sufi mystics like Rumi, Taoists and Sikhs like Nanak.

From my point of view this planet has always been filed with a percentage of souls who know the golden path but they are ignored since the ego driven half narcissistic and half hypocritical are the ones controlling the narrative.



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 07:09 AM
link   
a reply to: deadlyhope

It is the religion itself. If you had religions that were only about love, charity and compassion then there would be no "misinterpretation" possible. Its annoying that people refuse to blame their "holy" books. We shouldn't just have to accept these ancient religions and try to ignore any of the bad stuff that comes from it. Its childhood brainwashing that keeps people attatched to these belief systems that have created endless problems in the world.



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 07:18 AM
link   

originally posted by: blueman12
a reply to: deadlyhope

It is the religion itself. If you had religions that were only about love, charity and compassion then there would be no "misinterpretation" possible. Its annoying that people refuse to blame their "holy" books. We shouldn't just have to accept these ancient religions and try to ignore any of the bad stuff that comes from it. Its childhood brainwashing that keeps people attatched to these belief systems that have created endless problems in the world.



I agree. The curse will continue thru the ages until humanity becomes tired of ancient barbaric behavior pushed as perfection of man just because it is old.



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 07:19 AM
link   
Radical Islam is a branch of Sunni or Wahabi, or both. Which originates from Saudi Arabia. Like the vast majority of the alleged 9/11 hijackers. Yet they remain our allies.
This tells us that the war in the desert is not about fighting terrorists. It's about control.

And we never cast a critical eye towards Israel, who knew about 9/11 before it happened. They had Mossad operative in Central Park with camera gear ready to film the Towers before the first plane struck. Then they got in a van and almost blew up the George Washington Bridge. Then their Prime Minister declared 9/11 the best thing that ever happened to Israel. Then two little twins dress up as the Towers and win the Purim costume contest in Israel. For those that don't know, Purim is a holiday commemorating the day a Jewish woman seduced the Persian king into killing the enemies of the Jews. And that's what 9/11 was for. To entice us to kill the enemies of the Jews.



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 07:28 AM
link   
a reply to: MayanBoricua

But just because religion is used in this way do not get religions a free ride to not be criticized.

You would have a big problem creating the justifications in Buddhism or Yeshua:s teachings.

It is in Jewish, Paul:s additions and Muhammad:s teachings that you can easily create these insane group vs group thinking.

And you have Shia Radical Islam that is the same insanity on the other side of the spectrum as Wahabbism.
edit on 21-12-2015 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 08:31 AM
link   
a reply to: deadlyhope

I've tried to explain this plenty of times. I even listed the names of numerous American Muslims who are celebrities & public figures (from Dave Chappelle & Muhammad Ali to Ice Cube & Dr. Oz). Ironically, I get the same response from people here that I get from the Wahhabi extremists: that the American Muslims who've successfully "assimilated" into Western cultures aren't "real" Muslims. Simply put, both the anti-Islam crowd & the Wahhabi-Kharijite crowd only seem to accept extremist Muslims as "real" Muslims.



new topics

top topics



 
14
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join