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Your Rights. Where do They Come From?

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posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 09:43 PM
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originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: introvert

The enforcement is suppose to be self policing.

Hence the US constitution. That basically tells the STATE. The people. HANDS OFF.


Neo, they cannot be hands off, individual people are a$$holes, the government, with their statements need to agree that all are created equal.


They are suppose to be.

Says so in the 9th and 10th, and 14th amendments.


and that happened during the first 75 years of our existence or during the Jim Crow era? I don't think women were given rights in federal elections until 1920. To deny systemic racism or mysogeny in the first 150 years of our existence, is just not right. The biggest problem is, they continue now.




posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 09:44 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom




Then why do some people in some countries have more rights than other people? How do we know that our constitution includes all of the "rights" that this magical "creator" intended us to have?


Mainly because they have different political systems. There may be some similarities, but entirely different. Then you can add socioeconomics, and demographics.

That is the most AWESOME part about the creator.

No one said anyone had to believe in him/her or what ever. RIGHTS came from 'it'. NOT the state.

I honestly don't know why people have problems with that word.



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 09:47 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: MystikMushroom




Then why do some people in some countries have more rights than other people? How do we know that our constitution includes all of the "rights" that this magical "creator" intended us to have?


Mainly because they have different political systems. There may be some similarities, but entirely different. Then you can add socioeconomics, and demographics.

That is the most AWESOME part about the creator.

No one said anyone had to believe in him/her or what ever. RIGHTS came from 'it'. NOT the state.

I honestly don't know why people have problems with that word.


If my pursuit of happiness included sacrificing virgins in my back yard, you and the government are both going to have problems with it.

ETA: and would happily violate my first amendment rights.
edit on 12/20/2015 by BubbaJoe because: I needed to



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 09:50 PM
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a reply to: neo96



No one said anyone had to believe in him/her or what ever. RIGHTS came from 'it'. NOT the state.


Rights are granted by the constitution (aka state).

The Creator has been afk.



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 09:56 PM
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a reply to: introvert

Rights are granted by the creator.

The constitution was created to tell the MOB that 51% can't tell the 49% what their rights should be.



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 09:57 PM
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originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: MystikMushroom




Then why do some people in some countries have more rights than other people? How do we know that our constitution includes all of the "rights" that this magical "creator" intended us to have?


Mainly because they have different political systems. There may be some similarities, but entirely different. Then you can add socioeconomics, and demographics.

That is the most AWESOME part about the creator.

No one said anyone had to believe in him/her or what ever. RIGHTS came from 'it'. NOT the state.

I honestly don't know why people have problems with that word.


If my pursuit of happiness included sacrificing virgins in my back yard, you and the government are both going to have problems with it.

ETA: and would happily violate my first amendment rights.

Yes. Because you are violating those "virgins" rights.



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 09:58 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: introvert

Rights are granted by the creator.

The constitution was created to tell the MOB that 51% can't tell the 49% what their rights should be.



You're someone that believes your rights are being violated all the time.

Why is it that the creator cannot protect your rights, but the constitution and the system can?



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 10:00 PM
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a reply to: introvert

Good Grief READ IT.



When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.




We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed


www.archives.gov...



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 10:05 PM
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a reply to: neo96

I know it well and have read it many times. I believe all men are created equal, but have yet to find a creator to defend that.

Do you believe all men are created equal and endowed with certain rights by their creator? Even gays and Muslims?



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 10:13 PM
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a reply to: intrepid

Governments (or parties to "social contracts"of any kind) defend or limit rights to varying degrees. In other words, you can do these things and we will defend your right to do so (through means of enforcement), and you can't do these things (also through means of enforcement.)

Anyone can take these rights away at any time, or exercise rights they're not supposed to have, according to the " social contract " or government, as long as they can overcome or avoid the enforcement.



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 10:24 PM
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a reply to: intrepid

It is hard to discover the intellectual origin of the concept of rights, but the first person to codify a set of legal rights for individuals and groups was the Prophet Muhammed, who gave the people of Medina their first constitution in 622AD. Until the decline of the Ottoman Empire, the Islamic world was in general far ahead of the West when it came to the conception and protection of human rights — just as it was in every other field of thought.

The concept of individual rights arose slowly in Europe during the Middle Ages, not in any one time or place, but in several. Some basic rights, most notably the right of every accused to a fair trial, were defined in the Magna Carta of King John of England. Britain was probably the country in which the concept of rights evolved fastest: by 1670, England already had a Bill of Rights, and a similar document, the Claim of Rights, was operative in Scotland.

English Enlightenment philosophers like Thomas Hobbes and John Locke further refined and extended the definition of rights and introduced the concept of property rights, including the right to regard one’s own person as one’s personal property. This was an important step toward the abolition of slavery.

Then came two important revolutions: the American and the French. The former, in its aftermath, saw the drafting of the US Constitution (1787-1788). The latter gave birth to a specific bill of rights, the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen, which was approved by the National Assembly of France in 1789.

These documents established the concept of inalienable rights. The American Constitution has some mumbo-jumbo about rights being endowed on men by their Creator. The French Declaration makes no reference to a fictitious king in the sky, but states that the origin of rights lies in the nation-state itself.

Tom Paine’s answer to Burke’s criticism of the French Revolution, The Rights of Man, states that there are ‘natural and imprescriptible’ rights, which it is the duty of the state to defend, and justify its overthrow if it fails to do so.

None of these claims is, to my mind, at all convincing.

To answer the OP question, your rights come from the recognition of our common humanity and of the sanctity of life and property, which evolved very slowly over hundreds of years and which was never the same everywhere. In 1948, the UN General Assembly adopted the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Most countries are signatories to this today, but even so, all rights are not equally recognized everywhere.

It is idle to pretend that human and property rights have a basis in religious, philosophical or political doctrine. Such claims were cobbled together after the fact to allow interested parties to claim the credit for what was in fact the hard, ill-rewarded work of centuries, carried out by many people in many times and places, most of whom did not live to enjoy the success of their efforts.

Where do your rights come from? They come from the thousands upon thousands who struggled and died to secure them. Never forget this.


edit on 20/12/15 by Astyanax because: of a historical inaccuracy.



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 10:28 PM
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a reply to: neo96

So did this "creator" somehow speak to our founding fathers to tell them what "rights" we all are supposed to have? Did he not talk to other people in other countries?

Is the USA the morally superior and more righteous country because somehow this "creator" talked to those drafting our constitution?

How do we know we don't have more of these "rights"? How do we know that we wrote down and codified everything this "creator" intended us to have?

See, we create these rights as limitations upon our behavior, they weren't "granted" by anyone besides ourselves. "Rights" are a nice way of saying limits, and in order to have a large group of humans living together, you need limits on people's behavior.



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 10:33 PM
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a reply to: Astyanax

I had a whole reply typed up...but I think I can just say everything in two meme images:






posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 10:35 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

Read it or not

Believe it or not.

Continue mocking it or not.

Moving on to something else.



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 10:37 PM
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a reply to: neo96

C'mon, Neo.

Let's stand together and agree that all men are created equal, endowed by our creator with unalienable rights, even Muslims and gays.

Will you?
edit on 20-12-2015 by introvert because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 10:42 PM
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a reply to: neo96

So our creator must have told Jefferson what the limits of our rights are, so that him and the rest of the founders could write them down, correct?

The only limits we have are those which we, mankind, put upon ourselves.

Unless someone can prove to me that this "creator", "God", or advanced intelligence came down and had a conversation with these founders...these guys came up with these "rights" all on their own, from their own brains.



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 10:58 PM
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a reply to: intrepid

Natural law derived from human reason.



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 11:15 PM
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You're forgetting human rights.



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 03:27 AM
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originally posted by: intrepid
I've heard about this from many people. Mostly from the US. Is this a set up? Oh hell yeah. Logic is coming.

So who grants these rights and are they exclusive to America? Let it be known that I saw Carlin's last.


Why do you have any given "rights"?


Our rights come from the fact that we are free, individual, sovereign human beings that are self aware and self actualising. Our rights also come from what would the law of the land if a group of people who believed in causing no harm to others, would agree on as laws which are fair, just and equally applicable to all humans.

We have rights because we exist

Our rights are not 'given; to us by government in the form of privileges that they have the power to give and take way. that is is nothing short of a master slave relationship.

Rights should not be confused with laws which are 'the agreed opinions of small groups of people,' backed up by violence or the threat of violence.



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 04:24 AM
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I think you will find that Human Rights were not granted to ourselves as Commoners:

The first set of Human Rights were granted by King Cyrus the Great in 539 BC. (earlier even than Greek democracy) etc

www.farsinet.com...

He was the first King we know of who treated people he conquered decently and gave them actual legal rights maintained through a court system throughout the land. Even slaves were given the right to obtain their freedom etc.

This code was about the rights of people and not religious rights and hereby lies the controversy because of the claims made by some of the various religious groups in society. Today we think of human rights as coming from a Western/Christian origin but they existed in the pagan world which is not compatable with certain religious sensitivities or claims.
edit on 21-12-2015 by Shiloh7 because: spelling errors I missed sorry

edit on 21-12-2015 by Shiloh7 because: (no reason given)




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