It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The Trinity Glue

page: 1
1
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 02:41 PM
link   
The boldness of the followers of the Nicene Creed, they even added the word Lord to Paul’s Epistles! 


The Lord: The Hebrew states God’s name, YHVH, meaning according to v.14): ”He Will Be.” The Lord is actually a translation of “adonai” (lit. “my Lord”) because that is what the Israelites now pronounce whenever the consonants YHVH appear. YHVH was probably originally pronounced “Yahweh,” but in Second Temple times, as an expression of reverence, Israelites began to avoid uttering it, substituting “adonai” and other surrogates. (As a reminder to do so, in printed Hebrew Bibles the consonants are accompanied by the vowels of the surrogate words, leading to such hybrid English forms as Jehovah [I.e., “Yehovah” or the consonants Y-H-V-H with the vowels from “adonai”].)


Paul (Philippians 3:4-6) would have never used Lord in Romans 10:9! Paul would insist that a person confess Jesus as Savior, not Jesus as Lord.




posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 02:53 PM
link   
a reply to: newnature1
This relates to the trinity how? And where does the glue come in?



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 02:55 PM
link   
a reply to: newnature1

Here are a few versions of said verse .

(ASV) because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:

(BBE) Because, if you say with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and have faith in your heart that God has made him come back from the dead, you will have salvation:

(CEV) So you will be saved, if you honestly say, "Jesus is Lord," and if you believe with all your heart that God raised him from death.

(Darby) that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thine heart that God has raised him from among the dead, thou shalt be saved.

(DRB) For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

(EMTV) that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and you believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.

(ERV) If you openly say, "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart that God raised him from death, you will be saved.

(ESV) because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

(GNB) If you confess that Jesus is Lord and believe that God raised him from death, you will be saved.

(GW) If you declare that Jesus is Lord, and believe that God brought him back to life, you will be saved.

(ISV) If you declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

(JUB) that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thine heart that God has raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

(KJV) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

(KJV+) ThatG3754 ifG1437 thou shalt confessG3670 withG1722 thyG4675 mouthG4750 the LordG2962 Jesus,G2424 andG2532 shalt believeG4100 inG1722 thineG4675 heartG2588 thatG3754 GodG2316 hath raisedG1453 himG846 fromG1537 the dead,G3498 thou shalt be saved.G4982

(KJV-BRG) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

(LEB) that if you confess with your mouth "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

(LITV) Because if you confess the Lord Jesus with your mouth, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

(MKJV) Because if you confess the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.

(Murdock) And if thou shalt confess with thy mouth our Lord Jesus, and shalt believe with thy heart, that God hath raised him from the dead; thou shalt live.

(RV) because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:

(TLV) For if you confess with your mouth that Yeshua is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

(WEB) that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

(WEBA) that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

(Webster) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

(WNT) that if with your mouth you confess Jesus as Lord and in your heart believe that God brought Him back to life, you shall be saved.

(YLT) that if thou mayest confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and mayest believe in thy heart that God did raise him out of the dead, thou shalt be saved,




posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 03:46 PM
link   
a reply to: newnature1


1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Philippians 2:11And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Seeing you didn't mention anything about the Trinity we wont comment on that.


edit on 20-12-2015 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 04:49 PM
link   
The word Lord should not be in any of Paul's writings. The word Lord is the glue that hold that doctrine together.
edit on 20-12-2015 by newnature1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 04:55 PM
link   

originally posted by: newnature1
The word Lord should not be in any of Paul's writings.

You must complain to Paul. He was the one who kept putting the word there.
You have no evidence to the contrary, and no idea where to find any.
edit on 20-12-2015 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 05:02 PM
link   
so all your saying is that you people who are devout to god forgot his name, how amusing



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 05:26 PM
link   
a reply to: DISRAELI

He also has to take away many more writers that say the same thing ....op ...here is someone else talking about Jesus being Lord ...

(ABP+) [3did notG3756 1ForG1063 2David]G* ascendG305 intoG1519 theG3588 heavens.G3772 For he saysG3004 G1161 himself,G1473 The Lord saidG2036 G3588 G2962 to G3588 my Lord,G2962 G1473 Sit downG2521 atG1537 my right,G1188 G1473

(ASV) For David ascended not into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

(BBE) For David has not gone up into heaven, but says, himself, The Lord said to my Lord, Be seated at my right hand,

(CEV) David didn't go up to heaven. So he wasn't talking about himself when he said, "The Lord told my Lord to sit at his right side,

(Darby) For David has not ascended into the heavens, but he says himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit at my right hand

(DRB) For David ascended not into heaven; but he himself said: The Lord said to my Lord: Sit thou on my right hand,

(EMTV) "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand,

(ERV) David was not the one who was lifted up to heaven. David himself said, 'The Lord God said to my Lord: Sit at my right side,

(ESV) For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says, "'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand,

(GNB) For it was not David who went up into heaven; rather he said, 'The Lord said to my Lord: Sit here at my right side

(GW) David didn't go up to heaven, but he said, 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Take my highest position of power

(ISV) For David did not go up to heaven, but he said, 'The Lord told my Lord, "Sit at my right hand,

(JUB) For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand

(KJV) For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

(KJV+) ForG1063 DavidG1138 is notG3756 ascendedG305 intoG1519 theG3588 heavens:G3772 butG1161 heG846 saithG3004 himself, TheG3588 LORDG2962 saidG2036 unto myG3450 Lord,G2962 SitG2521 thou onG1537 myG3450 right hand,G1188

(KJV-BRG) For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

(LEB) For David did not ascend into heaven, but he himself says, 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand,

(LITV) For David did not ascend into Heaven, but he says, "The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at My right hand

(MKJV) For David has not ascended into the heavens, but he says himself, "The LORD said to my Lord, Sit at My right hand

(Murdock) For David hath not ascended into heaven; because he himself said: The Lord said to my Lord, seat thyself at my right hand,

(RV) For David ascended not into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

(TLV) For David did not ascend into the heavens; yet he himself says, ‘Adonai said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand,

(WEB) For David didn’t ascend into the heavens, but he says himself, ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit by my right hand,

(WEBA) For David didn’t ascend into the heavens, but he says himself, ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit by my right hand,

(Webster) For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he saith himself, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

(WNT) For David did not ascend into Heaven, but he says himself, "'THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD, SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND

(YLT) for David did not go up to the heavens, and he saith himself: The Lord saith to my lord, Sit thou at my right hand,




posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 05:53 PM
link   
The followers of the Nicene Creed did indeed highjack that word Lord. They even changed the meaning of what God said about himself to Moses. Here’s is what Exodus 3:13-14 in the TANAKH should read before they got their hands on it.


Exodus 3:13-14 - Moses said to God, “When I come to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” And God said to Moses, “Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh.” He continued, “Thus shall you say to the Israelites, ‘Ehyeh sent me to you.’ ”


Not having been raised among his own people, Moses is ignorant of their God’s name and fears he will lack credibility with the Israelites. God’s proper name, disclosed in the verse 15, is YHVH (spelled “yod-heh-vav-heh” in Hebrew; in ancient times the “vav” was pronounced “w”). But here God first tells Moses its meaning: “I Will Be What I Will Be,” meaning “My nature will become evident from my actions.” 


Then God answers Moses’ question about what to say to the people: “Tell them: ‘Ehyeh’ (“I Will Be,” a shorter form of the explanation) sent me.” This explanation derives God’s name from the verb “h-v-h,” a variant form of “h-y-h,” “to be.” Because God is the speaker, he uses the first person form of the verb.



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 06:21 PM
link   
a reply to: newnature1

The glue that holds the trinity, that word is not found in any Bible, but it is called the godhead and the mystery of godliness, they are said to be one and that it was not just Jesus blood but the blood of God that was shed.

John1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. . . 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
1Tim 3:16 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Act 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. 28 “Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.”
Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The Godhead is God the Father, The Word (Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost and those three are one.


edit on 20-12-2015 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 06:23 PM
link   
a reply to: newnature1
I am not a follower of any ancient Creed so that leaves me out of the equation but I did supply you with verses that prove Jesus is Lord.

Moses was raised by his own mother, who breast fed him, he knew of his lineage and he knew of God if you read the book of Exodus.

If you can't believe the Holy Bible as written and preserved in English then don't bother going to the Greek or Hebrew it will only confuse you more.


edit on 20-12-2015 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 06:23 PM
link   
dbl post oops!


edit on 20-12-2015 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 06:34 PM
link   
This is who Jesus Christ himself is. Let’s start with the one thing that will define who God really is? What is eternal life? John 5:26b…For as the Father HAS LIFE IN HIMSELF; so has he given to the son TO HAVE LIFE IN HIMSELF. The life Jesus referred to is eternal or everlasting life. 


By his declaration and definition, he declared that he himself did not have eternal life at the time he was walking the earth or he was a complete liar! If you truly believe that the Bible is the Word of God, then you have to believe that Jesus Christ spoke the truth. If so, from his own mouth, he declared that only God had eternal life. Christ himself only had the promise of eternal life!



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 06:45 PM
link   
a reply to: newnature1


You have done just what the Christians (and the Jews before them) did….. turn the creator God into a religious doctrine by being pedantic.The “name” of the creator God is not about the correct way to spell a word or mans definition of what that word means.The succinct definition of a name is the nature and character of the thing or person/entity named.

The “name” of the creator could NEVER be changed only the perception of what the name is.The religious carnal mind(satan..the adversary) has formed(diabolo/demon which means traversing a channel..i.e the mind) it into the doctrines of men just as Yahoshua said.

There is no Trinity glue in any of the doctrines of men you are proposing or your perception of what Paul or any of the other writers wrote it is ALL Hades(the realm of imperception).The fact is the name Yahweh is not what the religious perceives it to be because the name itself illuminates it is impossible to “know” because it states a fact “I will be what “I” will be”….not what I am named by YOU.

You have fallen into the same trap as Moses by wanting to tag a name on a being instead of “know”.Knowing the name of the creator God is not knowing the correct spelling or pronunciation neither is it defining the being named by a religious convention.

It should be abundantly clear the creator God was telling Moses his question about their name was a moot point.It should be obvious if there is a creator God it is IMPOSSIBLE to know them through any methodology..especially religious belief which is the antithesis of knowing the creator God.

The fact is Christianity does not know the creator God at all because they have created a God in their own image.The same goes for their Jesus they have created in their own image(imagination).The name Yahoshua means Yahweh is deliverance/salvation.The only way to”know” that is to experience it and it is NOT the born again experience of Christianity which is 100% false perception because it is only a doctrine of men.

Christianity believes that believing in Jesus is some vague belief in a person who lived 2 thousand years ago as if they could “know” them through their religious ritual belief.This Jesus is also a figment of their imagination.Their image of him is completely the opposite of what the scriptures clearly say:

Yahoshua…Yahweh’s deliverance…..

Yahoshua clearly states Yahoshua has come to “deliver” ALL of creation from Hades which means the grave(the realm of death) and the realm of imperception(their false religious beliefs).It is so clear Christians have not been delivered from the grave and especially they have NOT been delivered from their religion because they believe their religion is what SAVES them!!….that is the most deluded a person can be to the truth.

The bottom line is the creator God Yahweh the “I will be what I will be”.. WILL deliver ALL of creation from Hades and creation will have ZERO to do with it because it is being “done” to them not by them in ANY form.Christianity likes to play the semantic game that their God (Jesus) has done all the work and then the BUTS roll in by the truckloads … BUT you must…blah blah blah religious BS.

The true glue is ALL the creator and they are NOT a religious trinity being Christianity has created with semantical names that must be pronounced and written correctly to “believe” correctly.The blatant fact is Christianity has it ALL incorrect..hell they have ZERO idea what Yahoshua even is!!They are only sniffing glue.



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 06:49 PM
link   
Jesus declared that this


John10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.


This is JW 101 circle logic using scripture that Jesus is no god or not god. You will need to study about the humanity of Christ being fully God and fully man. In his manifestation, that is in his fleshly body, though being fully God, he limited his power and glory for a purpose that was set before the world began. Only once on earth did he take on his full appearance


Matt 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

compare that appearance with that in the OT and in the book of Revelation



edit on 20-12-2015 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 06:57 PM
link   
Jesus did not have life in himself, so he could not be the source of that life; however, that being said, he was given the authority to give the promise to whomever he wished. He was not the source, but he was the only way to obtain the life from God himself. This is not semantics, the scriptures make it quite plain to anyone who reads it.



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 07:23 PM
link   
Geez this thread became a nuthouse, the glue is faith nothing else, the other parts of the trinity is "concept and Institution"

Next part you need to make the concept into a paradigm or dogma which last for a couple of centuries at least, you need the institutions to teach the concept to the broader masses, which sooner or later becomes a faith in whatever s*** you want the masses to think is reality..

Jesus taught the message of humanity.. Did Jesus exist no idea but there was a man who was called his brother named James, who actually were a priest who got murdered who taught the message of "take a guess?"

religion/religio = to bind/ or to go through again

But i know you like Aliens, Nibiru, Area 51, Hollow moon, Vampires and all the other stuff more.. Make a story with that instead... geez
edit on 20151220 by Anansi because: I am your father



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 07:24 PM
link   
The followers of the Creed Nicene even changed the meaning of a word, the ‘word’ should be ‘wisdom’. They changed the context of this story. Here is the story before they got their hands on it. 


Just a reminder, this is the second Adam here. Yeshua was everything that the first Adam was, before Adam allowed Eve to eat of that tree. Satan was successful with the first Adam. Now Satan his chance to try and do it again with the second Adam. 


And Yeshua was about thirty years old; and Yeshua, having the fullness of power, yea, the powerful power of Yahweh upon him, returned from the Jordan. Than was Yeshua led by Yahweh into the wilderness forty days, to be tempted by Satan; and during those days, he ate nothing; and he was with the wild beasts; and when he had completed them, he was at last hungry; and Satan said to him, “If you are the son of Yahweh, command this stone to become bread.” Yeshua replied, saying to him, “It is written, that man does not live on bread alone, but that man may live on anything that Yahweh decrees.” 


And Satan conducted him to a high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the land, in a little time; and Satan said to him, “To you will I give all this dominion, and the glory of it, which is committed to me, and to whom I please, I give it; if therefore, you will worship before me, the whole shall be yours.” But Yeshua replied, saying to him, “It is written, revere only Yahweh, and worship him alone, to him shall you hold fast, and swear only by his name.” 


And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said to him, “If you are the son of Yahweh, cast yourself down from here, for it is written, he will give his angels charge over you, to keep you; and in their arms will they sustain you, lest you strike your foot against a stone.” And Yeshua replied, saying to him, “It is said, do not try Yahweh.” And when Satan had finished all his temptations, he departed from him for a time; and Satan came, and said to Yeshua, “If you are the son of Yahweh, command these stones to become bread.” But Yeshua replied, and said, “It is written, that man does not live on bread alone, but that man may live on anything that Yahweh decrees.” 


Then Satan took him to the Holy City, and set him on a pinnace of the temple, and said to him, “If you are the son of Yahweh, cast yourself down; for it is written, that he will give his angles charge of you, and in their hands will they sustain you, lest you strike your foot against a stone.” Yeshua said to him, “It is moreover written, do not try Yahweh.” Then Satan took him to a mountain that was very high, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, and their glory; and said to him, “All these will I give you, if you will fall down and worship me.” Then Yeshua said to him, “Begone, Satan; for it is written, revere only Yahweh, and worship him alone, to him shall you hold fast, and swear only by his name. 


Then Satan left Yeshua; and lo, angels came, and ministered to him. Wisdom was in the beginning, and that very wisdom was with Yahweh, and Yahweh was that wisdom. Wisdom was in the beginning with Yahweh. Everything came to be by Yahweh’s hand; and without Yahweh, not even one thing that was created came to be. The life is in Yahweh, that life is the light of men.


Wisdom was indeed in the beginning with Yahweh, Proverbs 8:22-26. Wisdom recounts her creation and her presence during the creation of the world. She was the very first of God’s creations. ‘Created me’ wisdom existed from eternity and was coeval with God. Some Christian groups identified wisdom with the Logos, which was in turn identified with The Christ. It is , however clear from v.23 that wisdom is a created being. Wisdom declares that she was present when God produced the inhabited world.



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 07:27 PM
link   
a reply to: newnature1

read my post above



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 07:34 PM
link   
a reply to: Anansi
The OP made it clear that he was speaking of the words/scripture that glue some doctrines together. He mentioned nothing of faith.

Having said that Faith is what brings all of it together.

You will know the OP writer does not use scriptures to prove any of his points only his own conjecture.




edit on 20-12-2015 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)




top topics



 
1
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join