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as posted by marg
I absolutly no reason for any of those citizens to die is just murder.
Originally posted by amb1063
hhhmmm that is an excellent point. there WERE many civilians that were able to leave the city and passed thru our troops to relative safety....so not all of them were held hostage.........
i made my statements based on my thought that............they were given the opportunity to leave fallujah before the bombing commenced and they didn't.................i felt they took a huge gamble with their lives by not leaving...........and the gamble didn't pay off.
I never said all, but many were, not to mention I don't see how the US could effectively warn all the civilians in time, I'm sure there were many who were unaware of the impending attack.
Originally posted by Seekerof
To then quote and claim acts of "murder," are you willing to recognize that what the insurgents and terrorists are doing in purposely targeting (via car bombings, suicide bombers, beheadings, etc.) those "citizens" is also "murder"?
Originally posted by Gazrok
Having lived in the middle east, you should know that most Islamic countries (and Iraq was before Saddam, and the mosques were still in place), have loudspeakers EVERYWHERE for prayer call.
From the source article:
Ministry of Health officials told IRIN that they are in the process of investigating the number of deaths, but claim that a very small number of women and children were killed, contrary to what doctors in Fallujah have said.
Originally posted by Gazrok
While no fan of Bush...
One should add, that these numbers are from ONE man, a Dr. and we do NOT know his political ideals, agenda, etc. nor why he stayed in Fallujah when the residents were warned to leave for their safety over the period of many days prior to the battle. I'd wait until we get some figures from the Red Crescent, etc. and the article also states that the Minister of Health is disputing that ratio.
Originally posted by Simulacra
Doctors at the hospital claim that many bodies had been found in a mutilated condition, some without legs or arms. Two babies were found at their homes, who are believed to have died from malnutrition, according to a specialist at the hospital
Thank you George Bush.
When people see footage of bombs hitting buildings, some don't think of the people who were in those buildings when they were hit.
You probably would, but if you lived there, one little problem would be the insurgents that would kill you and your family if you run for the hills.
The civilians were held hostage
Some are already saying they will attack in the US.
This war can never be won,
Iraq is not a threat to us, it has never been, and it will never be a threat to us
I've never lived there, but I'm sure you mean you lived there. My question is if the city was held by insurgent/terrorists, how would we gain access to those loudspeakers? And, alot of the leaflets were probably intercepted by the insurgents as alot of the civilians were probably staying in as much as they could have. I think it would be extremely difficult to effectively warn the civilians in that situation.
Originally posted by Gazrok
Yes, that is what I meant, it's what I get for typing too fast, hehe...
Good points, but the mosques have likely been used for prayer call for ages, so if even a quarter of them were utilized, I guarantee you would have heard something from just about anywhere, hehe... The insurgents did not hold the entire city, nor is it likely they could stop many mosques from broadcasting a warning.
Another good point on the leaflets, but the amount dropped was likely mind-boggling, as our standard MO... I'm sure that anyone could have found one at some point during those days. I didn't even mention that the local radio stations would have been taken over or their signals overridden, to include the warnings as well. (and it wouldn't have been necessary to be in the city to do this).
Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
This is the reality of war folks....regardless of how precise our weapons may be, occasionally they make a mistake....It's a sad day for those innocent victims, but this is (insert "my") war! And I'll find Osama and I'll smoke him out! Jesus loves you but he loves me more...God Bless America...
Originally posted by P Amaru
Its sad how you say that, this is a bigger crime then WTC, but to you its ok and fine... This is the reason i sometimes hope for someone to take america out of power to stop this mass murder going on
Originally posted by 27jd
While I do not personally believe this particular source or the numbers given, the main issue for me is that we ARE killing innocent civilians, a poster above stated everybody in the city was a collaborator, that is one of the most ridiculous assertions I have seen made on this thread.
Children are not collaborators,
and I'm sure many adults were not as well
, they were just trying to live in what was once their homes. Where would they have gone?
Are there shelters set up for families trying to escape, or were they just supposed to flee into the desert?
It seems so easy to say they could've evacuated
and that we gave them plenty of warning, but how can anybody here say that? Were you there?
Once again, it comes down to the fact that we had NO BUSINESS invading that country, at all.
This war was wrong, period.
Its sad how you say that, this is a bigger crime then WTC
now we have created several new groups that have vowed to see us fall, and we have created far more would be terrorists than we have killed, and we continue to create more.
We are all making statements based on thought...