Current Trend in Cognitive Biasing is Corrupting the Idea of Liberty.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Not really sure that you're making an apples to apples comparison? I'm an ardent believer in debate and we've certainly had a complete transformation in how people communicate over the last quarter century but that's got little to do with the accuracy of the information involved. Sure, many people are better informed than they would have been otherwise but at the same time, there are many others who are more misinformed than ever.

That has to do with agenda, age and exposure. I am quite satisfied I have learned so much more from the internet then I ever did before. Whole main stream media constructs have been dashed and the truth outed for me. I only got on the web in 2011 as a result of Fuku and in that short time have had my eyes opened by people that bring information here. This is the only place I come to get that info. Not just "People here" but the links they bring.

Sure theres bias, (follow me around, theres half a dozen people that troll my content here just about every time I post), sure theres ignorance (due to the ease of computer use, lots of young minds, easily swayed looking for sensationalism), just like me when I was a kid. I used to read magazines and newspapers and watch the news on tV and listen to it on radio.

Not anymore, unless I need to hear what the brainwashing is currently so I can recognize it when I see it here.

a reply to: Informer1958

Sometimes propaganda can be invisible, so moving past it might not be possible without tripping over it.

Thanks for the positive response. Glad you agree.

a reply to: Jakal26

Really?
Do you ever bother to read some of the commentary on a lot of these alt media sites?

Not really, what is crawling the main stream is crawling all over here, no thanks to the main stream.

And if it is good or pertinent people will bring it here with links. I do too. Then you come along and ridicule the source or dismiss the evidence. Doesn't matter, I hear the truth, so do others.

Nyah.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Sorry, answering twice.

People need to be better consumers of information and that's just not what I see happening. Maybe I'm wrong but what I see is that people tend to find the sources that confirm their preexisting beliefs and hold them as more credible because they want to and not because of any objective consideration.

Totally agree with that. I know bias, I was raised in a conservative church going environment, rebelled against that and lived outside the box for considerable time, then came back to the fold for a little while and saw the hypocrisy of it all. Now I'm here, and I know how to sift information, see through the veil, recognize propaganda, etc.

I've lived both side of the fence, in and out of society, nothing like that gives you better insight.

a reply to: Jakal26

I don't regret it though. It taught me a lot about listening to all sides and reading that which is contrary to my own notions at any given time. So, in the end, it was worth it, I suppose. And, I have since spoken up many times about that to those I possibly led astray or misinformed. I've called out those perpetuating this scam, that is, in the end....all about $.

I agree, I don't regret it either. I leaned a valuable lesson.

I to went to all my friends when I found out I was hoodwinked and told them the truth. My friends respected me for my honesty.

You are right, it was about the money. I spend thousands of dollars over Planet X for survival gear and food storage.

I will admit I was scared that a Global catastrophe event was coming, however I later found out it was all a hoax, in some since I was happy that nothing was going to happen and yet I was disappointed in myself for being so gullible.

Now I look at all sides to a story not just the narratives that the propaganda media spoon feeds us. In fact I shut off my TV I don't watch any mainstream media, I only use my television for entertainment, like watching movies.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I think that the erosion of the concept of liberty in the minds of populations is what allows the weakness of fear to take hold.

I agree that the two are interconnected in more than just a relationship of causality. The erosion of liberty and the pervasive cognitive biasing are both caused by the downgrading of education in western societies or at least here in America.

Thanks for the wonderful response. I myself do believe in "liberty and justice for all".

a reply to: Son of Will

In fact the exact opposite is happening.

This isn't an and/or, black and white debate.

The internet is finally allowing uncomfortable truths to come out

Some, yes. I agree with that, quite vehemently actually.

nobody falls for most of it

If you believe this, you are either not paying attention or don't read too much online commentary.

the majority of what the mainstream calls BS is actually true

Some, sure. I could think of quite a few things that the mainstream calls bs that is bs though, so....again, it's not black and white like you're trying to make it here.

I see neither logic nor reason going into the mindset being promoted here, but rather an appeal to authority which clasically masquerades as reason.

I'm not promoting anything and I assure you...my thoughts here and on this issue aren't an appeal to authority. But, believe what you so choose, I could care less anymore to really spend time trying to convince anyone of anything, especially here and in the current environment around here.

You know what else classically attempts to masquerade itself as reason? Insanity...
Insanity in this case being taking some polar ended stance on this...

9/11 Truth movements. This thread, if created in 2002, would probably have targeted and demonized such a group.

While I agree...I disagree.
I believe that much of the "truth movement" is a dis/mis info campaign to obfuscate the truth, not bring it to light.

(I say that as a "truther"...though I don't associate with those groups and do not generally carry the label. Of course the OS is bs...one has to be either very dense, very inattentive, or very fearful to buy such garbage)

a reply to: intrptr

Then you come along and ridicule the source or dismiss the evidence.

How on god's green earth did you make this leap? Lucky you didn't drown, those lily pads were quite some distance apart.

Doesn't matter, I hear what I want to hear and ignore the rest, so do many others.

^^There, I fixed that for you.


.........
Oh god...LOL.
Gotta edit. Just read that one...

Sure theres bias, (follow me around, theres half a dozen people that troll my content here just about every time I post)

Really? You really think you are important enough to "follow around" here? Seriously?
That explains a lot.

You do know that you aren't the only one pursing these thread everyday, don't you?
You do know that you are often the "other side" of an argument brought to the table and often post very early on in the threads, right?
You do know that you are an active member of this community, right? Because, I mean, if you know that you'd realize we are all going to run into each other quite frequently when we hang around this place a lot.

LOL

a reply to: Jakal26

^There, I fixed that for you.

Thats what I mean. You just actually changed my content and put it in "quotes".

Really? You really think you are important enough to "follow around" here? Seriously?
That explains a lot.

You replied to me on page one. You're one of the people that trolls my content. Get that straight too, changing peoples content and trolling them around ATS is against TnC, pretty sure.

Now trying to make it a personal attack as well.

Meh…

a reply to: intrptr

Thats what I mean. You just actually changed my content and put it in "quotes".

Ummm...
You did notice that little up arrow thingy, right? And the words that said "I fixed it for you"...Pretty sure the original text didn't get changed in your post, because I don't have the power to do that here.

You replied to me on page one.

Ummm...did you read what I said about you being a poster that is often early to the threads? Generally, when there is like 4 or 5 freaking replies and you are the one I disagree with, I'm going to reply to you. What else am I going to do on these boards? Aren't they for debate? Or would you rather we all just sit and circle jerk about our shared interest? What would be the point in that? I can do that kind of thing in the real world where engaging people like you (and others not so like you) would be impossible because you never listen to a word anyone says and all you ever do is put words in peoples' mouths.

You do it to me every single time we engage each other and then have the nerve to claim some "T&C violation"? That's really rich, guy.

You know, it's not always me replying to you, I think you need to go back and check some of those threads. You've often been the one to reply to my comments here, not the other way around. But yeah, I do often reply to your comments here....didn't know that was a problem.

Now trying to make it a personal attack as well.

What the hell are you talking about? A personal attack?
Again, you go with the ad hom right off the bat and then claim others are "attacking you"....the irony in that is absolutely astounding...

Wow...just wow!

.............
FYI...I often sit about 15 freaking feet from my computer and turn the zoom up, so I don't even see the names of those making comments before I respond (it's something I do so I can be less biased and is often why I find myself in agreement with you and others that I often, too, argue with here. But you wouldn't know that, though I've told you time and time again, but you don't listen, just like I said)...so no, I don't "troll your content". Just stop with it.

a reply to: Deny Arrogance

Thank you for stating the not-so (but what should be) obvious...

Our rights, individual liberties, come from God. If you dont believe in God, they are naturally occurring and are inherent to every human.

Whats more scary is that people have been successfully brainwashed to think that rights are "granted" to us by GOVERNMENT...

Government was meant to have a very small role in our lives (and in general) but one of their purposes (by far the most important) was to safeguard our rights or individual liberties.

Ironically, its government and their minions who are responsible for the vast majority of infringement on and destruction of our rights...

Should a government provide all citizens with the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on any citizens way of life, behaviour, or political views?

yeah sure, as long as their way of life, behavior, or political views don`t violate the constitution.

a reply to: Informer1958

You mean like nibiru? The thing about any of that is that it can be fun, like a kind of escapism, especially when you can see difference between yourself and the peopke taking it way to far or who talk about it all the time. Its like a rennaisance fair. Or a walkie talkie rpg. Nbd.

For those of you talking about the "poop", its not just in forums like these, its everywhere. The problem is that the antagonistic poop people put out as a distraction is becoming so metametameta that it makes the human language make so sense. And thats just absolutely insane and tiresome. And in that vein, it'll just make people go catatonic from immobility because human beings cant survive when made to waste time. And maybe thats how we'll do ourselves in. Under the weight of our own tedium. I hope not, that just makes me want to yell.

a reply to: hubrisinxs

I remember a Pentagon liaison saying the 'internet' is an enemy weapons system right here in the US back when they were trying to get authority to censor it. Well, I suppose if your government propaganda isn't working and people are listening to some demonstrably false propaganda then it would make the Pentagon see it as such.

It is a problem with the more dense in our society to believe in some of the most ridiculous crap peddled on the internet. Personally, censorship is not the answer in a free world. However, a ratings system that is run by a respectable multinational civilian and trustworthy committee (possible?) that does research on whether the stories associated with any media site are true or not and have it appear on the home page like a movie rating, but one set up for news sites altogether would help identify the bad sites for false propaganda like so many we know of here which we can't even use them as a source may help the common citizen to quit accepting sites publishing total bunk as news.

Whew, what a run on sentence lol. Anyway, I am sure it would generate its own problems.

a reply to: spirit_horse

Here is a BBC article on the Pentagon memo you mentioned. Really strange stuff in that article, kinda scary.

Also, I liked that long run-on solution! We don't need to censor information, but properly labeling it so that the consumers are more aware of the value of the content. We do it with food, so why not information?

a reply to: olaru12

Don't really understand that passive aggressive response? Who is crying? Ironic that your picture is of a baby.....

I do take responsibility for the things I know. I'm a trainee welder not a media mogul! Just saying it how it is. Many people don't trust things that constantly have to remind others how trustworthy they are.

"Crying on a www. forum does nothing", why are you here? Seems a little...... Hypocritical.

As an aside I'll check out your link.

originally posted by: Jakal26
While I agree, you'd have to be pretty dense not to see how all this fake alt media stuff is literally radicalizing many people.
To ignore it is to ignore one of many enemies to rational thought and honest discourse.

I definitely agree, but it's a tricky question. Where is the line you draw on freedom of the press? Especially when sometimes these far out theories actually do turn out to be true or lead to the truth. Plus, it's tough to try and regulate what people think/believe... down that road is China and their citizen scores.

Well, I've been loitering around on sites like ATS pretty much since the day after 9/11 and I don't believe a lot of the more popular conspiracy theories as they are generally perceived and spoken about. I think there are probably granules of truth in many of them but there's a lot of filler and just plain BS. When large groups of skeptics just blindly swallow these alternative theories simply because it's the loudest alternative out there, it makes anyone who attempts to be open minded and skeptical look like an idiot. Which is the perfect fuel for real conspiracies to happen.

The best thing that could possibly happen to people who are interested in controlling public perception is for the general public to have a low opinion of anyone who tries to be skeptical and objective.

There are people out there who.....

1. Don't care what the truth is as long as they're happy

2. Would prefer to know what the truth is, regardless of it's implications and it's consequences.

3. Would prefer to just not have to think about it and just trust the official narrative.

All three of these things can be very appealing. Unfortunately, if you're really going to call yourself a "truther" or some such, the ideal should be #2. If you have a pet theory and you could possibly be wrong because you don't know everything, it's important to acknowledge that and try not to speak in absolutes.

There are many things in this country (US) alone that just don't smell right. I'm not a genius and my knowledge of things is limited but I'm an intuitive kind of person. So I kind of have a sense about it when something isn't right. But I can't sit here and say "This is not just an opinion. This is the absolute truth and they're lying"

But at the end of the day, I'm interested in the truth. Not what I want the truth to be. You can't make rational, informed choices with incorrect information. I may go off track at times. And believe me, the first time I saw Loose Change I was utterly convinced. It took me many years to learn my lesson from that one experience.

Whether you believe the MSM or not, at the end of the day the only think you can be sure of is they're definitely not telling you everything. And also there is really no way to know everything. So you have to keep in mind that everything is really just an opinion.