It's Time to fight Back- How To Identify A Troll

a reply to: Prezbo369
OP is holier than thou.

originally posted by: SoulSurfer

originally posted by: Prezbo369
a reply to: SoulSurfer

You know for a fact......you had an army if trolls.....

You're making my point for me, you're spouting some of the most stupid and ridiculous nonsense in an effort to demonstrate that your previous ridiculous and stupid claims are true....

And like I said, not every claim requires or deserves constructive criticism.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion. You will not change my mind on what I know to be true. And I will continue to inform people on what I know, with or without your opinion. I accept that YOU see it as ridiculous. But it is not ridiculous to me.

Let bygones be bygones. I think, we have nothing left to say. So i bid you a good day.

Finally! You realise that someone disagreeing with you and dismissing your claims is not a troll........geez

originally posted by: Prezbo369

originally posted by: SoulSurfer

originally posted by: Prezbo369
a reply to: SoulSurfer

You know for a fact......you had an army if trolls.....

You're making my point for me, you're spouting some of the most stupid and ridiculous nonsense in an effort to demonstrate that your previous ridiculous and stupid claims are true....

And like I said, not every claim requires or deserves constructive criticism.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion. You will not change my mind on what I know to be true. And I will continue to inform people on what I know, with or without your opinion. I accept that YOU see it as ridiculous. But it is not ridiculous to me.

Let bygones be bygones. I think, we have nothing left to say. So i bid you a good day.

Finally! You realise that someone disagreeing with you and dismissing your claims is not a troll........geez

I dont see it as "realizing" more like taking the mature approach that not everyone will agree on a particular subject. A lesson I should have applied long ago when a writer said:

"To be a successful writer of any kind, one must accept criticism of any kind."

I used to spend time in absolutewrite forums, learning how to write. I wanted to be a novelist once upon a time. I certainly never thought I'd be considering journalism instead.

But trust me, the last thing I wanted to do was to teach people how to behave. That.. was not part of my life's plan. But, i guess whatever higher power that may be out there has other plans for me. What that is,( if any), time will tell.

a reply to: SoulSurfer

Been here a while now, despite seeing the now all too common accusation of there being government paid trolls here on ATS I can honestly say I've never seen any real, hard or even suggestive evidence of such.....just lots of people talking bollocks to each other, many with diametrically opposed views.

Sure you get the odd internet bully - they tend to get found out pretty quickly by both Mods and other ATS members.

You also get those who refuse to even consider opposing views regardless of the strength of the evidence and argument provided.

Such is life.

In many ways ATS and sites like it are simply a representation of the big bad world outside of here, there's good and bad everywhere.

Trolls aren't the problem, the unwillingness to consider different and new ideas is very much a problem.

But all in all, most members get on reasonably well with each other here on ATS, even those who repeatedly cross swords with each other.

For the record, I hate bullies and take great delight in torturing them - does that make me a bully?

originally posted by: SoulSurfer
I dont see it as "realizing" more like taking the mature approach that not everyone will agree on a particular subject. A lesson I should have applied long ago

Well whatever it is, it's in stark contrast to what you say in your OP...

But trust me, the last thing I wanted to do was to teach people how to behave.

You just attempted to teach people how to (incorrectly) identify trolls, do you not think that this could potentially influence someones behavior??

That.. was not part of my life's plan. But, i guess whatever higher power that may be out there has other plans for me. What that is,( if any), time will tell.

I guess it's a shame that the 'higher power' hasn't told you to take personal responsibility of your actions instead of blaming a vague concept.

originally posted by: Prezbo369

originally posted by: SoulSurfer
I dont see it as "realizing" more like taking the mature approach that not everyone will agree on a particular subject. A lesson I should have applied long ago

Well whatever it is, it's in stark contrast to what you say in your OP...

But trust me, the last thing I wanted to do was to teach people how to behave.

You just attempted to teach people how to (incorrectly) identify trolls, do you not think that this could potentially influence someones behavior??

That.. was not part of my life's plan. But, i guess whatever higher power that may be out there has other plans for me. What that is,( if any), time will tell.

I guess it's a shame that the 'higher power' hasn't told you to take personal responsibility of your actions instead of blaming a vague concept.

Im not sure we are on the same page bro. But stop attempting on discrediting me by turning the thread against me. Which IS a troll tactic. I agreed, to disagree. Nothing more, and nothing less.

Mostly to avoid conflict

Okay. I get it (Lights going on).
These guys are your friends, and you've asked them to help you illustrate how trolling can derail an otherwise solid and informative thread.
Brilliant

a reply to: SoulSurfer

Adding to the 15 rules on how to identify a troll.


16. Once the troll ensures victory, he goes in for the kill. He is not satisfied until the tide is turned into his or her favor. Winning the argument, is all he/she cares about. You will notice it in the pattern of speech. A sense of pride, of victory. Observe those attempting to get away from conflict, vs those pursuing a "win". You will see, that the troll cares not for your opinions, but rather ensure his own bias views as absolutes without backing it with constructive criticism.

a reply to: SoulSurfer

Okay, Ill let you know what tips me off. Any time someone says "writer." Often times they tjink because theyre writers and artists that they are at liberty to consider the world around them as just "art" or "writing". This is a passive aggressive tactic to pretend you are putting them on iggy, spinning words to make yourself "reasonable", mentioning character assault, and then silently as you said gathering info so you can I guess go fuxxors with it because you know doing so would bother em with bollux. It makes you feel confident. Youre smart. Cuppa tea. They dont see you doing it. Its art to you its action to them. Youre multilayered. And clever. They aren't. They want to do. You like to see what people do. Youre a writer :/ People of words are always bothering those of action, because they fascinate at it. They think "weak" goes with "strong" like bread and butter, and never let go. Everyone loves philosophy all the time. Theyre putting words down cause they dont know any better what with the world inside your head and everything all. Yeah bollux that.

originally posted by: Prezbo369

originally posted by: SoulSurfer
I dont see it as "realizing" more like taking the mature approach that not everyone will agree on a particular subject. A lesson I should have applied long ago

Well whatever it is, it's in stark contrast to what you say in your OP...

But trust me, the last thing I wanted to do was to teach people how to behave.

You just attempted to teach people how to (incorrectly) identify trolls, do you not think that this could potentially influence someones behavior??

That.. was not part of my life's plan. But, i guess whatever higher power that may be out there has other plans for me. What that is,( if any), time will tell.

I guess it's a shame that the 'higher power' hasn't told you to take personal responsibility of your actions instead of blaming a vague concept.

Even I could see you were trolling him this whole OP. lol.

originally posted by: breakingbs
a reply to: SoulSurfer

Okay, Ill let you know what tips me off. Any time someone says "writer." Often times they tjink because theyre writers and artists that they are at liberty to consider the world around them as just "art" or "writing". This is a passive aggressive tactic to pretend you are putting them on iggy, spinning words to make yourself "reasonable", mentioning character assault, and then silently as you said gathering info so you can I guess go fuxxors with it because you know doing so would bother em with bollux. It makes you feel confident. Youre smart. Cuppa tea. They dont see you doing it. Its art to you its action to them. Youre multilayered. And clever. They aren't. They want to do. You like to see what people do. Youre a writer :/ People of words are always bothering those of action, because they fascinate at it. They think "weak" goes with "strong" like bread and butter, and never let go. Everyone loves philosophy all the time. Theyre putting words down cause they dont know any better what with the world inside your head and everything all. Yeah bollux that.

OR, I am telling a real life story, to get the person to relate with what I am talking about by explaining things in parables.

You do know what the word, parables mean, right?

Are you familiar with allegories? The Logos? Metaphors?

Not everyone has to explain a topic in the same way.

I happen to enjoy metaphors, because they tend to have real life lessons within them. Metaphors are stories based on real life events or lessons. Even if the setting is fictional, metaphors are taken from experiences of either the author or what he sees in the world from his or her perspective or what he or she witnessed.

Even I could see you were trolling him this whole OP. lol.

I gave him just a "little" bit of what he wanted. He was not satisfied with the "middle ground" i offered and went for the kill. He took the bait and shot himself in the foot. - This is called Irony.

I learned a few things from the movie revolver. Excellent movie with many lessons and philosophies/allegories in its own right. The movie actually shows an example on how natural law works. The aggressor will always lose if the victim doesn't react to their taunts, and seemingly "helps them along".




This reminds me

Adding to the 16 Rules on How to ID a Troll.

17. The troll will pursue it's victim, even when the victim attempts to flee. When arguing with a troll, you will feel energetically drained. This is one reason one leaves the argument vs a troll. We really don't wish to spend that energy arguing with someone who we know has no intention of actually hearing you out. It is because when you argue with a troll, you are actually arguing with a brick wall.( metaphorically speaking.). One pattern of speech to notice is actually a classic bullying tactic. It can be either through taunts, or intimidation. If the troll has not succeeded in fully wining the argument, he or she will attempt to do so by either taunting through some form, or intimidation to prevent the victim from fleeing.

These two are heavy factors in discerning the difference between a troll vs someone who simply disagrees through a different point of view/belief. When there are different points of views, the ONLY healthy way to avoid escalation of conflict is to reach the middle ground of. "Agree to disagree and to let bygones be bygones"

That is called making peace with the situation, and agreeing through mutual respect to simply allow each other to be.It is only when one side pursues a win, that things escalates into war mode.

"OR, I am telling a real life story, to get the person to relate with what I am talking about by explaining things in parables."

Yes you could be.

"You do know what the word, parables mean, right?"

haughty but i'll let it drop.


"Are you familiar with allegories? The Logos?"

Thats a minefield of...things people do around "logos" and im not sure i wish to go quite there. In fact its unfair.


" Metaphors?

Not everyone has to explain a topic in the same way."


Nope.




"I happen to enjoy metaphors, because they tend to have real life lessons within them."

Yep.

"Metaphors are stories based on real life events or lessons. Even if the setting is fictional, metaphors are taken from experiences of either the author or what he sees in the world from his or her perspective or what he or she witnessed."

Tmi.







"I gave him just a "little" bit of what he wanted. He was not satisfied with the "middle ground" i offered and went for the kill. He took the bait and shot himself in the foot. - This is called Irony."


Oh my god. Enough!!


"I learned a few things from the movie revolver. Excellent movie with many lessons and philosophies/allegories in its own right. The movie actually shows an example on how natural law works. The aggressor will always lose if the victim doesn't react to their taunts, and seemingly "helps them along"."

What if its a buncha guys being jack a's. And thatsit. Nofurther.




"This reminds me

Adding to the 16 Rules on How to ID a Troll.

17. The troll will pursue it's victim, even when the victim attempts to flee. When arguing with a troll, you will feel energetically drained. This is one reason one leaves the argument vs a troll. We really don't wish to spend that energy arguing with someone who we know has no intention of actually hearing you out. It is because when you argue with a troll, you are actually arguing with a brick wall.( metaphorically speaking.). One pattern of speech to notice is actually a classic bullying tactic. It can be either through taunts, or intimidation. If the troll has not succeeded in fully wining the argument, he or she will attempt to do so by either taunting through some form, or intimidation to prevent the victim from fleeing."


Read above. No one's out to get u. Or taking "bait."


"These two are heavy factors in discerning the difference between a troll vs someone who simply disagrees through a different point of view/belief. When there are different points of views, the ONLY healthy way to avoid escalation of conflict is to reach the middle ground of. "Agree to disagree and to let bygones be bygones""

Ehh, generally agree-

-eed?


"That is called making peace with the situation, and agreeing through mutual respect to simply allow each other to be.It is only when one side pursues a win, that things escalates into war mode."

...Or it could be a buncha guys...being jack A's in a pretty straightforward way. I don't think you know as much as you might be...ehh...seeming to be...? Err :x

a reply to: breakingbs

Correction, I dont understand the term...

"He-or-she." Doesnt compute. Does not compute.

18. They will try to dissect your posts with nothing intellectual to offer. In reality, they don't understand the topic, so they try to make the victim look foolish through peer pressure and point the finger at the victim as the problem instead of themselves. They will always try to turn even the smallest detail against you. Most of the responses when summed up, are in fact responses that does not make sense. The Troll may "ACT" confused, but he or she is not confused.

He or she, is a generalization. as I am addressing the fact that a troll can be either male or female. (Which is actually a common phrase used when addressing both sexes.)

Oh my god. Enough!!

No. You Have the option to leave the thread if you are getting emotional. You came into MY thread. You have the option to ignore and move on. I am not the one obligating you to stay. You did that at your own accord. I will speak as I wish and there is not a damn thing you can do about it for as long as I do not break TOS.

Have a good day/night.

a reply to: SoulSurfer

Emotional???


*cough.*


You take things way too...


Nevermind?


Bro or..sis. i didnt mean..


Nevermind.

White flag of surrender

a reply to: SoulSurfer

I totally understand what you're saying, but a couple of thoughts not counter-to, maybe more an attempt to understand:

1) Are "paid government shills/trolls" really all that prevalent? I mean, there's sooo many potential topics, how much taxpayer money is being spent on such things, for what would seem to me to be a puny effect

2) Knowing how to identify and handle trolls is a good thing, and your efforts are laudable. However, for the people out there who are susceptible to bring deeply impacted by words on a computer screen, i believe the best advice is to stay off of internet forums, at least those where they feel as if they're being trolled. If it's THAT big of a deal to someone that it even matters, IMO, the person simply isn't ready to be in those situations. I'm not making light of it here, I truly believe it is a mental health issue - akin to social anxiety disorder, but orders of magnitude more intense.

Unfortunately, and this is very much just my observational opinion, there's a Catch-22 at play here. The people who are likely to feel trolled, bullied, etc., online are likely people for whom "in-person" social interaction is difficult - in some cases difficult enough that they're drawn to online forums as the majority or entirety of their social interaction. They believe it will be a safer, more comfortable venue.

What they're not realizing is that a computer monitor isn't a shield for social anxiety disorder - it's more likely a magnifying glass, with people shamelessly out looking to take others down a peg. With in-person social interactions, at least past junior high school, very few people are anywhere near the level of D-baggery as those you'll find hiding behind keyboards. When they are, it's on occasion, not 16 hours a day every day.

So the cliche of the "socially awkward" teenager whose parents are "just happy he's socializing at all, even if it's into the computer screen" is likely doing more harm than good.

So anyhow, i agree with the OP overall, but I think parents of children facing such issues, and adults, with the help of friends/families, need to start thinking more about what they're doing by incessantly exposing themselves to stimula which troubles them so deeply.

It's as if the kid who gets his lunch money stolen keeps repeatedly running toward the bullies with cash hanging out of his pockets after affixing a "Kick Me" sign to himself. These individuals ARE the victims of bullying, but I think a large part of it is they don't understand that they're seeing the tables for the bullies by walking into situations they're simply not equipped to deal with.

I don't believe I've ever been trolled, in my 23 years on the interwebs. I'm positive I haven't just been incredibly lucky. I just don't even notice the trolls, or couldn't care less what they have to say. A comment which would earn an eyeroll at best from me, to another person could set off a beseiged mindset downward spiral where the victim unwittingly feeds the troll, as it grows into their worst nightmare through the victim's unwitting nurture.

To clarify, I'm not blaming the victims - I believe it boils down to people with severe social anxiety disorder not realizing they've chosen the worst possible situation to put themselves in. Maybe if more people realize this, more people can be helped out of the prisons they don't realize they've locked themselves into.

originally posted by: IAMTAT
Okay. I get it (Lights going on).
These guys are your friends, and you've asked them to help you illustrate how trolling can derail an otherwise solid and informative thread.
Brilliant

Nope, not friends. I dont know them. They are doing what they do at their own accord. But nice eye on least half recognizing what i tried to point out.

Was doubting anyone would pick up even a scent of it. But now you are aware.

Edit: Thread turned out better than I expected. I hope this helped in exposing the trolls.

a reply to: SoulSurfer

I agree completely man. This forum is WAY better managed than some of the other forums I've engaged in, but even this one isn't immune to it. Because troll behavior is deceptive. It gets a feel for the rules then bends them just enough so they don't break and thus earn the ire of the mods. It's easy. I've done it before. If you can maintain control of your emotions long enough to get the other person riled up you can make a conversation go anywhere.

You certainly don't have to make a living of it to become good at it and use it in your day-to-day honest debates. Sometimes you don't even realize you are doing it until days later. It's like trolls are this evil that live in the moral grey area where you can't crack down on them TOO much because that stifles free speech, but that leaves the only option left is for people to police themselves. And realistically speaking that's asking a lot.

originally posted by: Prezbo369
Right....you have no problem with the claims that governments do it, but not religions? claims of magic and resurrecting zombies is fine but people arguing on the web?.....agents!...

No, I said that I don't THINK that religions do it, and my reasoning is because they recruit members and believers in other ways. Government is a different type of entity than religion is--it's structured differently and has different goals, for the most part. So, comparing the two and then implying that only believing one employs or encourages trolling and the other does not is an irrelevant and illogical comparison, especially as far as this thread is concerned.

Whatever you claim your employed history is, it has no relevance in an online debate/discussion. If you have to wheel out such apparent details in order to bolster your position it merely demonstrates how weak it is to begin with.

Right, laying down a foundation as to why I feel like I have a bit of knowledge about a subject demonstrates how weak my argument is. Again, you're not using logic, as it doesn't matter if you believe me or not, but it does matter that I have some experience that bolsters my claim. The burden of your inability to believe me or understand how that aids in my credibility is not on me, it is on you.

It is exactly people like you that cause people like me to feel like we have to lay down a bit of information about our background in order for you to not just immediately oppose what we say. Still doesn't work with some people.

I've said it's a stupid claim and have explained why, one made by the OP as he/she doesn't seem to be able to handle criticism. If you don't think this is the case then you're encouraging the OPs irrationality IMO.

That's the thing about opinions...they're just that. It doesn't mean that you're right.

It doesn't mean that I am, either.