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DHS Official: Using Terror Watch Lists To Infringe On Second Amendment Rights*Snipped

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posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 01:04 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

I never said there was complete due process. I said that there is a process you can go through to get off of the list. Quite a pain in the ass, but it can be done. And I also mentioned that the ACLU is fighting this in court.

I disagree with the no-fly list and was just throwing some facts out there.




posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 01:11 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Do me a favor, por favor, and stop telling me what I think and believe and support. I already know what I think and believe and support. It evolves daily, too.

How about you telling us what YOU think and believe and support, instead, and why.


edit on 12/18/2015 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 01:13 PM
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The gun owner, the true victims of mass shootings...


Muslims goes on shooting spree(makes up 10 % of shootings)..cries for action because it is for the safety of fellow Americans.

Other people (the other 90%) go on shooting spree...any action asked for must be shut down and the hell with fellow Americans safety.

I love how they somehow turned the this around, into the gun owner being the victim.

Would someone please explain to me why making it harder for mentally ill/criminals/radicalized people to get guns would somehow effect other gun owners.

I know I know neo, you are going to somehow turn what i said into all gun owners be held responsible for the action of the few..



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 01:13 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: DBCowboy

I already know what I think and believe and support.


Yes. It is quite obvious.



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 01:15 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

And, as I just added to my above post - it is liable to change from hour to hour, day to day.

I have a right to educate myself and to adjust my thoughts, beliefs, and things I support. If you don't get that, it speaks volumes about you.



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 01:17 PM
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a reply to: theonenonlyone

A gun owner goes on shooting spree(makes up .01% of shootings)..cries for gun control because it is for the safety of fellow Americans.

Fixed it for you.



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 01:25 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: DBCowboy

And, as I just added to my above post - it is liable to change from hour to hour, day to day.

I have a right to educate myself and to adjust my thoughts, beliefs, and things I support. If you don't get that, it speaks volumes about you.


I don't really care if you'll change your mind from one day to the next.

I'm being very basic here.

I am not convoluting the message or obscuring the message.

Currently, people are being placed on no-fly lists.
This is done without their knowledge.
The president (and supporters) want rights removed from those people on the list.

The Constitution clearly states that rights cannot be removed without due process.

If you don't know you're on the list until you try to fly or purchase a firearm, then your rights have been removed without due process.

Therefor, the actions that the president (and supporters) desire in unconstitutional.



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

It should be noted that the ability to fly on airplanes isn't a right guaranteed by the Constitution so the existence of a no-fly list isn't taking your rights away without due process. I can't speak to denying gun ownership because you are on it though.
edit on 18-12-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 01:30 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy




Currently, people are being placed on no-fly lists.


YEP.

www.aclu.org...

Take it for what's it's worth.

They really aren't against the no fly list:

Until the No Fly List Is Fixed, It Shouldn’t Be Used to Restrict People’s Freedoms



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 01:32 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: DBCowboy

It should be noted that the ability to fly on airplanes isn't a right guaranteed by the Constitution so the existence of a no-fly list isn't taking your rights away without due process. I can't speak to denying gun ownership because you are on it though.


Well then you just legitimized Trumps argument.




posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 01:38 PM
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originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: DBCowboy

It should be noted that the ability to fly on airplanes isn't a right guaranteed by the Constitution so the existence of a no-fly list isn't taking your rights away without due process. I can't speak to denying gun ownership because you are on it though.


Well then you just legitimized Trumps argument.



No I didn't, and you know it. You are just trying to be cute.



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t




It should be noted that the ability to fly on airplanes isn't a right guaranteed by the Constitution


I beg to differ.



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 01:51 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

You are correct. While we don't have a right to travel, we do have the freedom to move.



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 01:53 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t





It should be noted that the ability to fly on airplanes isn't a right guaranteed by the Constitution so the existence of a no-fly list isn't taking your rights away without due process. I can't speak to denying gun ownership because you are on it though.

Well then some written gymnastics how nice of you. So the idea of setting a precedent that the lawyers/politicians would be all over is fine by you? If the no-fly list becomes the reason you can no longer purchase a firearm, it is no longer just a no-fly list is it? It becomes a tool of discrimination based on a unknown rationale that would place you on a list that deprives you of a Constitutional right. Lets face it the no-fly list is as bad as discriminating against Muslims



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 01:56 PM
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a reply to: hangedman13

Don't read anything further than what I said in that post please. I am not in the mood to unravel your strawman about my argument.



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 01:59 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 03:46 PM
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originally posted by: theonenonlyone
The gun owner, the true victims of mass shootings...


Muslims goes on shooting spree(makes up 10 % of shootings)..cries for action because it is for the safety of fellow Americans.

Other people (the other 90%) go on shooting spree...any action asked for must be shut down and the hell with fellow Americans safety.

I love how they somehow turned the this around, into the gun owner being the victim.

Would someone please explain to me why making it harder for mentally ill/criminals/radicalized people to get guns would somehow effect other gun owners.

I know I know neo, you are going to somehow turn what i said into all gun owners be held responsible for the action of the few..


It's already illegal for a felon to have a firearm. And it's been made "more illegal" through multiple bills. Making it "more more illegal" isn't likely to change the fact that they can still get firearms.

How do you propose to stop somebody who is self radicalized from getting a firearm? Give them a multiple choice test? Same goes for undiagnosed mentally ill.

People keep baying for "common sense" gun laws yet they can't produce anything that's common sense.



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 03:50 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6




People keep baying for "common sense" gun laws yet they can't produce anything that's common sense.


The circle of life.

Create a law that bascially says thou shall not kill.

People ignore it.

Create another law that bans a certain type of weapon.

People ignore it.

Create another law that bans the same type of weapon all over again.

People ignore it.

Create another law that says nut cases are verboten from owning a firearm.

People ignore it.

Create another law that says the exact same thing.

People ignore it.

Create another law that already covered numerous times.

People ignore it.



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 05:48 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

That's because "sense" isn't so common after all. Too many people are able and willing to cut the limb with which they sit.



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 06:19 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs




gun owners and purchasers should be "profiled" - they are a danger to themselves and others by definition.



You are actually saying that anyone who buys or already owns a gun is automatically a danger? You want to label me and millions of others as homicidal maniacs, just for the simple fact we own guns?
People like you honestly make me nervous.
By your own logic, we should fear every Muslim, because a few are extremists. We should fear every Black person, because some are gang members.
What we should really fear are those who would strip us of our Freedoms and force their own ideas on us.



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