Downed Russian SU-24 black box first information

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason


You seem to be awfully sure that DAESH is "working with Turkey." I'm not going to challenge that belief because that is the sort of off topic nonsense that leads to people trolling people they fundamentally agree with.

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: luthier


Uh not really. Erdogan is propping up the economy with the bankers he chooses. How else are the buildings going up all around you getting financed so quickly.

Erdogan is using the muslim money that was scared off by Western spooks . Following the 9/11 USA has passed laws that allow law enforments agencies to confiscate muslims businessmen's wealth by a way of conspiracy between the Police [ Rome ] and Judiciary [ Jerusalem ] .

Muslim bankers & businessmen aren't stupid so they start looking for a safe haven for their oil riches .

Turks offered the safe environment and thus the boom in the economy while every one else is in austerity programs.


You do know the international business community is very skeptical of the bubble forming right now right? Erdogan and Putin are two peas of a pod.

Bubble is not going to be an issue by and large , 40 years ago when I was a young teen the population of Istanbul was 1.5 million and today it is 25 million . Turks are set to be reaching 100 million in next 25 years .
So no property bust is likely .
Erdogan have a vision which is about muslim world and Putin has a vision about orthodox World , inthat sense yes they are like peas in a pod .


I could say Putin is cleaning up the bankers in his country too. Really he is just picking the ones who benifit him and getting rid of the ones who appose him.

Putin has no choice of bringing up interest free banking like how it should be ; he would be bankrupt before he knew what hit him in other words he has not enough resources but plenty of guns .
While Erdogan has enough guns he also has cash money and vision to implement.
Usury no more and treasury to be accountable to every individual over the net .

Obviously the western powers that be are threatened by Erdogan's actions and paint him as someone who has dangerous ideas .

Yeah dangerous their pockets for sure .

Wow verbatim what Erdogan says. Guess your a believer. Unfortunately none of that has to do with real economics. It's an old sleazy trick

a reply to: DJW001

ahh yes. assad should step down so that america stops destabilizing syria. now your talking sense. also putin should step down so america lifts the sanctions. and then everyone will be happy? hows that work? ohh ill tell you how america will take controll of russian assets again just like it did during the 90's before putin came along and took them back.

but im sure you believe that the FSA was a completely grassroots movement. in no way are they being supplied and trained by the united states to have started a civil war because america wanted assad out. if you can sit here and say america had nothing to do woith the creation of the FSA i will... well i wont do anything. ill giggle.

But they are not trying to bring order to Syria.

Russia is pursuing its own goals, some of which require the situation there to be stabilized.

but they arent trying to bring order? ohh my gee. ive either misunderstood your meaning or you just contradicted yourself.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: AVoiceOfReason


You seem to be awfully sure that DAESH is "working with Turkey." I'm not going to challenge that belief because that is the sort of off topic nonsense that leads to people trolling people they fundamentally agree with.

Your computer blowing up? You posted that 7 times bud

Correction 8 one on this page

a reply to: DJW001

You seem to be awfully sure that DAESH is "working with Turkey." I'm not going to challenge that belief because that is the sort of off topic nonsense that leads to people trolling people they fundamentally agree with.

ahh its just a conspiracy theory. no way its true right? buuut ya know ISIS is selling their oil to somebody. someone in turkey is almost definitely buying it from them. so i mean turkey could at least investigate this. i mean they are in a coalition to fight isis are they not. seems like if they are really against isis cutting their money supply would be a top priority.

and it wasnt off topic. he says that ISIS wouldnt be there. but if they are selling oil in turkey then they would be there. off topic from the original post? i dont know what you mean. i rarely do.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: luthier


Uh not really. Erdogan is propping up the economy with the bankers he chooses. How else are the buildings going up all around you getting financed so quickly.

Erdogan is using the muslim money that was scared off by Western spooks . Following the 9/11 USA has passed laws that allow law enforments agencies to confiscate muslims businessmen's wealth by a way of conspiracy between the Police [ Rome ] and Judiciary [ Jerusalem ] .



Muslim bankers & businessmen aren't stupid so they start looking for a safe haven for their oil riches .

Turks offered the safe environment and thus the boom in the economy while every one else is in austerity programs.


You do know the international business community is very skeptical of the bubble forming right now right? Erdogan and Putin are two peas of a pod.

Bubble is not going to be an issue by and large , 40 years ago when I was a young teen the population of Istanbul was 1.5 million and today it is 25 million . Turks are set to be reaching 100 million in next 25 years .
So no property bust is likely .
Erdogan have a vision which is about muslim world and Putin has a vision about orthodox World , inthat sense yes they are like peas in a pod .


I could say Putin is cleaning up the bankers in his country too. Really he is just picking the ones who benifit him and getting rid of the ones who appose him.

Putin has no choice of bringing up interest free banking like how it should be ; he would be bankrupt before he knew what hit him in other words he has not enough resources but plenty of guns .
While Erdogan has enough guns he also has cash money and vision to implement.
Usury no more and treasury to be accountable to every individual over the net .

Obviously the western powers that be are threatened by Erdogan's actions and paint him as someone who has dangerous ideas .

Yeah dangerous their pockets for sure .

Wow verbatim what Erdogan says. Guess your a believer. Unfortunately none of that has to do with real economics. It's an old sleazy trick

Check the Turkish banks websites and see it for yourself that the interest free funding is available to ANY businessman / woman.
Young people also get Grants to the tune of $ 30.000 .

Btw my first degree is in economics and I would love to discuss the economic side of it if you like .

Banning usury is no gimmick, no sleazy trick ; it is the one and only weapon humans has against ending up in a involuntary servitude.

Jesus's first violent act was to ban Usury ; Erdogan you can say is following in the footsteps of prophet Jesus and being attacked left , right an center .

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: luthier


Uh not really. Erdogan is propping up the economy with the bankers he chooses. How else are the buildings going up all around you getting financed so quickly.

Erdogan is using the muslim money that was scared off by Western spooks . Following the 9/11 USA has passed laws that allow law enforments agencies to confiscate muslims businessmen's wealth by a way of conspiracy between the Police [ Rome ] and Judiciary [ Jerusalem ] .



Muslim bankers & businessmen aren't stupid so they start looking for a safe haven for their oil riches .

Turks offered the safe environment and thus the boom in the economy while every one else is in austerity programs.


You do know the international business community is very skeptical of the bubble forming right now right? Erdogan and Putin are two peas of a pod.

Bubble is not going to be an issue by and large , 40 years ago when I was a young teen the population of Istanbul was 1.5 million and today it is 25 million . Turks are set to be reaching 100 million in next 25 years .
So no property bust is likely .
Erdogan have a vision which is about muslim world and Putin has a vision about orthodox World , inthat sense yes they are like peas in a pod .


I could say Putin is cleaning up the bankers in his country too. Really he is just picking the ones who benifit him and getting rid of the ones who appose him.

Putin has no choice of bringing up interest free banking like how it should be ; he would be bankrupt before he knew what hit him in other words he has not enough resources but plenty of guns .
While Erdogan has enough guns he also has cash money and vision to implement.
Usury no more and treasury to be accountable to every individual over the net .

Obviously the western powers that be are threatened by Erdogan's actions and paint him as someone who has dangerous ideas .

Yeah dangerous their pockets for sure .

Wow verbatim what Erdogan says. Guess your a believer. Unfortunately none of that has to do with real economics. It's an old sleazy trick

Check the Turkish banks websites and see it for yourself that the interest free funding is available to ANY businessman / woman.
Young people also get Grants to the tune of $ 30.000 .

Btw my first degree is in economics and I would love to discuss the economic side of it if you like .

Banning usury is no gimmick, no sleazy trick ; it is the one and only weapon humans has against ending up in a involuntary servitude.

Jesus's first violent act was to ban Usury ; Erdogan you can say is following in the footsteps of prophet Jesus and being attacked left , right an center .

OK economist man how much did Turkeys gdp grow compaired to its private sector? How much short term debt did they take in for the building projects? How much long term? Why so much foreign investment if they trust the lyra?

Uncontrilled low Interest rates always lead to hasty investment and always lead to bubbles. Find me where that isn't true. Especially in combination with short term loans Turkey has used from the international community. It's a massive gamble. How much of your GDP over the last decade is future debt?

It's also not great for outside investors to start massive global conflicts.

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: DJW001

You seem to be awfully sure that DAESH is "working with Turkey." I'm not going to challenge that belief because that is the sort of off topic nonsense that leads to people trolling people they fundamentally agree with.

ahh its just a conspiracy theory. no way its true right? buuut ya know ISIS is selling their oil to somebody. someone in turkey is almost definitely buying it from them. so i mean turkey could at least investigate this. i mean they are in a coalition to fight isis are they not. seems like if they are really against isis cutting their money supply would be a top priority.

and it wasnt off topic. he says that ISIS wouldnt be there. but if they are selling oil in turkey then they would be there. off topic from the original post? i dont know what you mean. i rarely do.

its like the drugs over mexico ;

can usa stop it ?
no .
does usa fights the smugglers ?
yes .

The border is long and easy to cross ; Turks are already building a wall .

I have no idea what you really know about Turks & Turkey ; I suspect it is a case of " they all look the same to me " for you .

You maybe mistaken these guys as DAESH members ; they are just Turkish hipsters .

a reply to: 23432

ohhh so the US should fight ISIS endlessly while loosing the lives of soldiers and profiting from it. like the drug war!! now your thinking like the government.

hey dude. maybe watch the news or something, keeping up on current events is good. you learn stuff. its good. please do that.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Thanks for the data, that's very interesting information. Although, it is a bit chilling to think the US was involved in targeting for the shoot-down. That seems somewhat odd to me. I guess it can only be laid off to NATO.

I'm not so sure I'm a fan of NATO, or not.

a reply to: spy66

As is so often the case.....we'll probably never know the whole truth.

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: 23432

ohhh so the US should fight ISIS endlessly while loosing the lives of soldiers and profiting from it. like the drug war!! now your thinking like the government.

hey dude. maybe watch the news or something, keeping up on current events is good. you learn stuff. its good. please do that.

I have no idea how did you come to that conclusion from what I wrote .

USA should decriminalise the drugs .

And please for the love of god , turn your TV off .

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: 23432

ohhh so the US should fight ISIS endlessly while loosing the lives of soldiers and profiting from it. like the drug war!! now your thinking like the government.

hey dude. maybe watch the news or something, keeping up on current events is good. you learn stuff. its good. please do that.

I have no idea how did you come to that conclusion from what I wrote .

USA should decriminalise the drugs .

And please for the love of god , turn your TV off .

The drug war is a perfect example and you stepped right in. The problem with your assessment is this. Maybe the US knows they can't stop drugs so they choose to control the situation conspiratorily. Like by favoring a cartel over another to pull in the arrests and use informants to make money.

Same way the stuff goes on with the supposed good guys in Syria. It's just a money making game.

Still waiting for some economic genius too. Like how using short term loans from the international community to pay debt and lower interest rates is a good thing. Or how a 47 percent debt to GDP is a good thing. Or how 90 percent of cooperate debt is foreign investment?

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

Just to make myself perfectly clear, Assad' s main objective is to retain power, even at the expense of chaos and destruction. Russia's primary goal is to retain its Mediterranean base and exercise influence in the region. If it cannot reach these goals and bring order to the region, it will not bring order to the region. Now please stop feigning ignorance to score cheap points.

At the risk of straying back on topic, allow me to preview what you will be reading on Sputnik. This is based on my long term observations of Russian media manipulation. (And jus to avoid attracting trolls: yes, the western media also manipulate things in a similar way.)

INTERNATIONAL EXPERTS: JET WAS NO THREAT TO TURKEY

(Sputnik) Moscow. Speaking at a specially called press conference, President Putin announced that an international panel of experts, including British and Chinese investigators, have announced their findings.

"I said that Turkey has committed a reprehensible and criminal act," sais Mr. Putin, "and that this panel would provide absolute proof that the Russian jet was not in violation of Turkish airspace when it was shot down."

He went on to emphasize that Turkey would not be allowed to escape consequences for its wanton act.

Because the flight recorder data was corrupted, the panel was unable to reconstruct the exact path and location of the jet, but it is certain that the impact took place while the jet was heading east. "If the jet really did enter Turkish airspace, " said the British investigator, "it was clearly leaving and posed no threat to Turkey."

Get it?

originally posted by: luthier

I have no idea how did you come to that conclusion from what I wrote .

USA should decriminalise the drugs .

And please for the love of god , turn your TV off .

The problem with your assessment is this. Maybe the US knows they can't stop drugs so they choose to control the situation conspiratorily. Like by favoring a cartel over another to pull in the arrests and use informants to make money.

I think the powers that control the drugs policy in usa are far more ingrained and operate systematically whereus the powers who control oil smuggling are local Kurdish businessmen who take advantage of the power vacuum .



Same way the stuff goes on with the supposed good guys in Syria. It's just a money making game.

yeah but usa is instutionalised it while the Turks are bunch amateours at it .

Still waiting for some economic genius too. Like how using short term loans from the international community to pay debt and lower interest rates is a good thing. Or how a 47 percent debt to GDP is a good thing. Or how 90 percent of cooperate debt is foreign investment?

I didn't realise that you were expecting the answer immediately .

When I mentioned the economics debate , I was after a philosophical debate not a method inquiry about the implementation of interest charging economy .

The economic indicaters which you are inquiring are going to be obsolete within a decade .

Macro Economy will be resource based rather then debt base .

That is the issue worth discussing imho .

I think currently %12 of Turkish GDP goes to debt payments and when Erdogan came to power it was at level of % 80 .

Turks owe nothing to IMF .

Corporate investors are by and large Saudis & Qatar businessmen ; Both Qatari ruler and Saudi rules have one thing in common with Erdogan ; all of their grandfathers were Ottoman.
I think the debt gdp ratio is about % 38 and it's much better then many European countries icluding Germany & UK .

These details are not what I am interested in debating ; rathe I would debate a resource based economy and how if it's made to work the effects of it on the interest charging , usury based economy of the West.

Every single time a speculator like Soros attempts to corner the market ; very same day required amount of trucks pull in to the Central bank carpark loaded with cash .

And that is how things are on the Economic War front in Ankara - Turkey .

***ATTENTION***

Let's get back to the topic at hand, and discuss the Su-24 data. Enough with the off topic bickering.

Do not reply to this post.

originally posted by: Whereismypassword
I'm glad the UK sent someone there,USA should have sent someone as well

Obama doesn't want to anyone knowing he colluded with Erdogan to shoot down the Russian Jet. Why would the USA send someone out.

I'm surprised the UK sent someone. NATO is completely corrupt as it seems.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Laxus

Putin from the start offered cooperation with the FSA but they refused.

Really? Do you have a source for this?

Sure , there is a free search engine called google that you can find all sorts of information.

1 week after the campaign began

Moscow ready to establish contacts with FSA, help it unite forces with Assad against ISIS

Source
That got ignored .

3 weeks into the campaign:

Free Syrian Army (FSA) rebels have rebuffed cooperation with Russia against the "Islamic State" and holding elections. Their response came after Russia suggested it could work with the rebels

Source

10 that took me to dig up.

So you still believe that Putin is suddenly ready to cooperated after what happened with Su24 ? He was asking for cooperation all along.

a reply to: Laxus

Did Putin really think the FSA would agree to cooperate with him while he was still actively bombing them? You are confusing posturing with substance.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

so which statement is true?

The one that paints Russia as the 'victim'.

The preferred outcome.