Students Homework - Write Statement of Islamic Faith

a reply to: 4N0M4LY

...I really am offended you didn't mention Art as well. Hehe...

Trying not to derail but Art I believe is the most important subject. It crosses all disciplines.

Graffik

a reply to: BarefootInWinter

The only thing is its hard to get Muslim faith taught in school, at least should be because we cannot learn about Adam and eve in school.... Problem is it's a theocracy and there's the kicker. I see that's why the public schools want to teach about the culture. But the culture, government religion etc is all wrapped into one.

Bottom line...if we cannot learn about Christ Allah sure as crap better not be taught either.. and I'm an agnostic.

Graffik

a reply to: Learningman

So, if I state that the FSM is the God of Abraham, does that make it so?

originally posted by: Learningman
a reply to: Bedlam

It really is, there is no logical way to deny this fact. Allah means literally 'The one God' in reference to the God of Abraham, it is well known, and taught even in Christian schools.

The FSM is also "the one God" in the noodly scriptures, does that also make them co-equal?

Pretty much every monotheistic religion calls their deity "the one God". I don't believe that calls for syncretism in response.

a reply to: Learningman

What God told Ishmael was that he would bless him and that his descendants would be numerous as the stars, but that they would be wild and ungovernable and they would turn their hands against every man.

God did not go on to say that He would be their God. So whether He is or isn't ... who can say? Certainly the tribes that came to Mohammad were not worshipping the God of Abraham anymore.

At this point then, whether or not you believe that the Allah of the Muslim faith is the same as the God of the Jews and Christians depends on whether or not you believe that Mohammad actually did receive revelation direct from God through the actual angel Gabriel. This is where the controversy comes in.

a reply to: BarefootInWinter

I had to do something similar in a 'world religion' class, in about grade 3 or 4. And this was a very evangelical protestant school that recited the Lord's Prayer every day before the Canadian national anthem. (this was 20+ years ago, before the religious school boards were integrated into the regional public boards in my province).

So, I was thinking -- what's the big deal? Then I read a comment on a Gawker article of all places that gave me thought: the Shahada is the Islamic declaration of faith. If a non-religious person's child's cursive lesson were to write out a declaration affirming that Jesus is the one true lord and saviour, bricks would be shat and rightfully so.

The Shadaha - 'There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger' (paraphrased.) Arabic calligraphy is beautiful and certainly worth covering in the appropriate class. I don't think that this lesson was some sort of covert way to stealth convert school kids to Islam, but it still doesn't sit right with me.

That's not New Testament. Sorry...Christianity moved on from the Old Testament. That's where Jews and Muslims separate from good ol' Jesus. a reply to: Ghost147

How about Asamalakalium (see, I should have learned how to spell it), instead of proclaiming ISLAM As YOUR FAITh!
This was meant to stir something up from one of the sides fo shizzle.
A pleasant greeting would be the non confrontational way to go.
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

a reply to: ketsuko

Yes, it does wear you out doesn't it? But this is the exact type of argument that comes up every time someone even gets a whiff that there might be a hint of Christian anything in the schools.

Yes, it does wear me out.

Because you don't get it....
you just don't get it. Do you? No. You don't.

Teaching kids about Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Rastafarianism, Aboriginal Dreamtime, Native American Great Spirit, ALL OF IT is relevant.

There is NOT ONE DAMNED THING WRONG with kids being exposed to ALL of those cultures and belief systems. Nothing. In fact, it is imperative.

It's when children are only taught "ONE" -- and told "it is the truth and everyone else will fry in hell" -- and that everyone else's beliefs are abominations that I get the fire lit under me. Those unfortunate children who live in homes where other cultures and religions are eschewed and/or ignored and/or denigrated and/or LEFT OUT ALTOGETHER by their elders or teachers or parents or government ---- that is when I get bothered.

And no matter how weary it makes me feel, I will continue to fight for kids to have open, secular education.

For them to NOT BE INDOCTRINATED into one religion....

whether it's little Palestinian kids learning how to crawl under barbed wire and wield a gun .....
.....or little American kids being sent to "Jesus Camp" type places......
....or little Jewish kids being told Arabs are monstrous......
....or young Afghani girls who are shot in the head for wanting to go to school and learn something.........

Weary or not, I will NOT stop defending the kids.
And that includes YOUR kid.




ETA: Something I was thinking about earlier in the evening -
This topic is no different than the stupid issues about teaching kids about reproductive health.

"Sex Ed."

Teaching "abstinence only" is the kind of backward crap I'm talking about......if you're going to teach sex ed, then include:
abstinence AND EVERY METHOD OF BIRTH CONTROL.....
or don't talk about it at all.

In my opinion, it is better for kids to know about ALL aspects of sexual behavior and ALL belief systems around the world and ALL 'political' sides and ALL major regions of the world, than to keep them IGNORANT out of misguided fear or...well....ignorance on the part of their families, communities, churches, schools, etc.

Jesus Christ on a stick, this is insane. It's just teaching kids what a Shahadah is. Islam has become pretty relevant these days.

How can people be expected to understand Islamic terrorism without knowing the first thing about the religion? As the old saying goes, know thy enemy. Even though, of course, the majority of Muslims are not terrorists.

Given that Western nations are forced into multiculturalism, to decrease the divide in communities more knowledge needs to be shared, otherwise there'll be blood on the streets. Whether you like multiculturalism or not, there's no denying that it's the way of modern Western societies, so surely the more understanding people have of their new neighbours, the more chance there is of mutual respect and peace?

This quote from the CNN article:

"This is so WRONG! There is only ONE GOD and HIS NAME is JESUS!" one user posted.

I thought that in Christian belief, Jesus was the son of God whose name is YHWH - interpreted as Yahweh or Jehovah. Maybe I am wrong, but I thought that Jesus wasn't actually God himself, but his son sent to instruct the world in God's teachings?

I've heard Americans say that Jesus is God several times, is there a difference between mainstream American Christianity and Christianity in other countries? I know there are a lot of sects, like Baptists and Catholics and Lutherans and so on, but I always thought that they all considered Jesus to be the son, not the God himself?

Also, the Muslim god is the same as the Christian and Jewish god. "Allah" is just the Arabic word for "God". Don't people know this?

a reply to: DeepThoughtCriminal

Jesus Christ on a stick, this is insane. It's just teaching kids what a Shahadah is.

Not at all. They didn't even tell them the translation nor did they tell them to translate it.


They were just shown an example of how the language was written and told them to copy it and from the picture of the assignment you can see they were not pressed to copy it with any accuracy.

The USA is at war with Islam right now. Would American school children have copied stuff out of Mein Kampf during WWII? Would they have been asked to write about the joys of communism during the cold war/Vietnam war era? No.

This was an unfortunate incident, the teacher should not be fired. But anti Muslim sentiment should be fostered in America's youth in this day and age. It should be understood that Islam is a failed ideology, that pretty much sucks in every way.

a reply to: hammanderr

The USA is at war with Islam right now.

Isn't that like a crusade/holy war/Jihad?

I hope that isn't true.

I am just going to say this... Religion has no place in education. How many Gods have been created in ancient text? and are any of them really worthy of part of a students curriculum when there is zero proof of any of them. I think they all claim to be the "one true God", and supported by nothing but faith or believe that to be true. Do ya really want your students believing in miracles, and submit as slaves before the one true God? Religion was created by man to control the masses, and created Sheeple instead of free-thinkers. There is nothing wrong with believing in the supernatural, but best to internalize rather than teach such thing which you know nothing about, or making affirmative statements about something which is all probability is false. I think it is better to teach nothing, rather than teach bogus dogma

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: boymonkey74

I know where you are coming from. But Christianity and Islam are never going to reconcile.

You'be got some horrid verses in the qu'ran to thank for that.

Yeah... Exclusively the qu'ran.... Right

Leviticus 26:28: (Eat your own children)
Yet if in spite of this you do not obey Me, but act with hostility against Me, 28then I will act with wrathful hostility against you, and I, even I, will punish you seven times for your sins. 29'Further, you will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters

This wasn't an instruction to eat children but was a warning that if the Israelites continued to do the wrong thing, they would end up performing the most degenerate and horrific acts. Historically, it was the report of a mother cooking and eating her own baby that changed Vespasian's mind regarding the siege of Jerusalem and caused him to end the siege and send the troops in to take control, with the result that Jerusalem was destroyed and most of the population massacred.

Timothy 2:12 (women are inferior)
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

Paul,who wrote this, was taught by Sybil and honored her as his teacher. This particular verse was written because of a specific heresy at a specific church and was an instruction to Timothy as to how to deal with the problem.

Judges 19:24-25 (here, have my daughter to rape)
"Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go."

This was indicative of the degeneracy of the time. The book of Judges describes a time when Israel was quite lawless and "everyone did what was right in their own eyes". It is not an instruction for fathers to allow their daughters to be raped.

Hosea 13:16 (Kill pregnant women and mutilate their bodies)
"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."

This is not an instruction to be followed, but a prophecy of the horrors that would befall Israel because it had turned away from God. Assyria attacked Israel and purportedly did this. There are descriptions of similar horrific actions in Homer's Illiad.

Good ol' Holy Bible... So pure and innocent? I think not...

You truly are delusional if you think the Bible is pure and innocent.

The Bible and its believers do not make any claim that it is 'innocent'. Instead, it truthfully portrays the dangerous consequences of turning against God and seeking to follow personal ethical relativism.

I just realized, it was Titus who was in charge of the end of the AD70 siege of Jerusalem, not Vespasian.

Titus was Vespasian's father & I got them confused. Apologies.

originally posted by: DeepThoughtCriminal
I thought that in Christian belief, Jesus was the son of God whose name is YHWH - interpreted as Yahweh or Jehovah. Maybe I am wrong, but I thought that Jesus wasn't actually God himself, but his son sent to instruct the world in God's teachings?

Nope, in mainstream Christianity, God/YHWH, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are three views of one dataset, if you will. The 'begetting' part was God doing a fork, then reducing the feature set until it fit in an upgraded human.

There are some fairly oddball offshoots of Christianity in the Appalachians that look at it a bit differently, one that I know of do not believe that YHWH or the holy spirit exist and it's all Jesus. Although I'm a bit confused about how they handle the behavioral diffrences between OT and NT, possibly they view the OT as a tool of Satan, they seem to feel that way about everything else.

Also, the Muslim god is the same as the Christian and Jewish god. "Allah" is just the Arabic word for "God". Don't people know this?

Every monotheism calls their God "God". That doesn't make them co-identical in the eyes of their worshippers. Islam considers all of the NT and most of the OT to be sort of fan-fic and a break from canon. It might have some truth in, but where it doesn't agree with the Quran it's not canon.

Allah would never appear to Moses in a burning bush - he reveals his will but not himself. Allah is not what you would call a personal interactive sort of deity. So while you see some of the same characters in both sets of literature, the Quran is sort of a reboot or retcon.

originally posted by: hammanderr
The USA is at war with Islam right now. Would American school children have copied stuff out of Mein Kampf during WWII? Would they have been asked to write about the joys of communism during the cold war/Vietnam war era? No.

This was an unfortunate incident, the teacher should not be fired. But anti Muslim sentiment should be fostered in America's youth in this day and age. It should be understood that Islam is a failed ideology, that pretty much sucks in every way.

This kinda talk proves what I have been saying.
Some would love a holy war and are pushing for it.
IDIOTS go and play in the road please and leave the adults out of your stupid schoolyard BS.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Name calling? Very impressive. You are clearly an articulate, brilliant person. You make your family so proud.

They've already declared a holy war. What do you think the "jihad" is?

At what point do you think the West should wake up and realize they are in a war? Never? Is denial a good strategy in war?

a reply to: hammanderr

All Muslims is it? NO but the way you read ATS lately it is all Muslims isn't it?.
If you fall for it you are an idiot.

Read Overlords thread here.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

ISIS want the reaction you are all giving.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

What you don't seem to understand, to great irony, is that almost nobody here thinks children should be 100% insulated from education regarding other religions. The whole discussion is rather about the method being used. Teach them ABOUT religion, fine. But teach them religion? Not fine, and also not constitutional. There IS a difference, despite the many attempts made in this thread to conflate these two separare issues.

It's similar to a parent teaching their kids about evil in the world. You don't want them to be unprepared, but contrarywise you don't give them a stick and tell them to whack Grandma in the back of the head. You rather teach them meta details - teach them on an intellectual level, in an educational context. About the violence - not the violence itself.

Feel free to crawl down from that cross you nailed yourself to, anytime you want.