Black Jesus doll sparks complaints for being 'offensive to Christians'

originally posted by: Willtell

But do you folks know that there was once a period in time, Jesus’ time for instance, where race wasn’t even recorded.

That’s why reading the bible you don’t read anything like: he was black or brown or white or any reference to color.


All this nonsense was started by 17th and 18th century racists from Europe who wanted to justify their crimes against black and brown people.

The White Greeks didn't rarely even say Egyptians were brown or dark, the subject wants even broached.

This color thing is a new invention of that sick creature who always creates evil---MAN

I agree that the ancients were more about culture and nations than about our modern concept of race, the Greeks certainly did take note of the physical differences about them but rarely drew any conclusion negative or Positive about it, you were either Greek or barbarians, note Barbarians in this sense did not necessarily imply uncivilized, about the Kemetians and Kush-ites the Greeks certainly remarked on their differences including color.
Aristotle:

""Those who are too black are cowards, like for instance, the Egyptians and Ethiopians.

"Why are the Ethiopians and Egyptians bandy legged? Is it because of that the body of itself creates, because of
disturbance by heat, like loss of wood when they become dry? The condition of their hair supports this theory; for it is curlier than that of other nations

.


Ammiuanus Marcellinus:

...the men of Egypt are mostly brown or black with a skinny desiccated look.

Herodotus : book II The Histories.

For the people of Colchis are evidently Egyptian, and this I perceived for myself before I heard it from others. So when I had come to consider the matter I asked them both; and the Colchians had remembrance of the Egyptians more than the Egyptians of the Colchians; but the Egyptians said they believed that the Colchians were a portion of the army of Sesostris. That this was so I conjectured myself not only because they are dark-skinned and have curly hair (this of itself amounts to nothing, for there are other races which are so.

edit on 18-12-2015 by Spider879 because: (no reason given)

a reply to: Willtell

Anyway, Christians don’t know whether Jesus is God or son of God

Never make the mistake of thinking that because you don't know, we don't know.

originally posted by: rupertg
One of my favorite episodes of Good Times

Exactly. And nobody thought anything about it. Why now? Why are we being taught to hate our differences NOW?
Are we doing this to ourselves?

'Sparks complaints' and 'generated controversy' without actual hard numbers or specific names... just a local resident named 'Maria'

Wow, watch out for those pitchforks and christian extremists!

a reply to: angeldoll

And nobody thought anything about it. Why now? Why are we being taught to hate our differences NOW?
Are we doing this to ourselves?

In the case above medium and context matters, this was seen as tongue in cheek and can be dismissed as a joke if even slightly subversive, but bring an image like that in more blatant context in some quarters back then and expect ridicule and opposition.
I actually think we have gotten better yes the current climate with all kinds of phobias I think is temporary.

originally posted by: peppycat
a reply to: Raggedyman The Christianity that I follow looks at the entire bible as God's word breathed into the prophets and those who wrote the bible. The new testament wouldn't make sense without the old testament especially with all the Old Testament passages that build up to the arrival of Jesus in the New Testament.
I am baffled by any Christian that thinks the ten Commandments shouldn't at least try to be followed.

You are baffled because you want to serve the written law, the first covenant God made with Israel.

While that covenant still stands in the world it doesn't stand for those in Christ, Jesus brought a new covenant for Christians

That's why Jesus said there were only two laws, love God and love each other, love is the law for those in Jesus.

If Christians are to carry out those 10 commandments why not carry out every law in the OT, surely that is what is right

The OT is all about Jesus because He changed everything for those who serve Him

Christians are under a new covenant, not the old covenant

Does that help?

originally posted by: cuckooold

originally posted by: Xtrozero
Well at least they could have made it Aborigine with kinky blond hair..geez... it is Australia. Oh BTW we are talking about a town of 14,000 so we might be having this heavy debate over what 12 people there who think he should be white. Lol

FYI, this story is from Melbourne, a city of over 4.4 million, and very multicultural to boot.

If it was a Melbourne Jesus he would have two heads

a reply to: Raggedyman I'm baffled by Christians not taking in the bible as a whole and complete book about God's teachings. I believe the New Testament completes the Old testament and that in order to learn from the second book one has to study the first. Some of the best sermons I've ever heard are from preachers that take both books into consideration to fully understand Christ wanting us to love God above all else and to love one another.
The preacher I listen to serves a Christian church that does not have imagery that one would find in say a Catholic church because we don't need the what I think is a graven image of someone in heaven(second commandment)
Wouldn't loving God above all else mean taking into account all of the words breathed into man and or prophet?

i did the homework.

i have tracked the family tree of christ from the bloodline of noah and his 3 sons. using both biblical and jewish sources, i was able to use the table of nations to complete the marriages as well. this shows more clearly the mix of races from the 3 families noah brought off the boat. it was established. that when the ark set down on mount ararat in turkey, this central location to the european continent, the middleeast. Noah alotted lands in division to his 3 sons. Shem was given the lands to the far east... this is asia, china etc. Ham, the black one, was alotted the lands to the south, southwest. this began with egypt and spread throughout the african continent. making Ham the first prophet of egyptian lands. Japheth, was white and was given the lands to the north, and thus all the northerners were white. in between the three alottments of north, east and sout/southwest,, was an area of travel and passage between regions where ppl moved and settled, this gave rise to the co-mingling and mixing of races. but this sint the main factor that is attributed to Jesus mixed race.

the true fact of jesus mixed race can be tracked through the marriage assignments. it is observed via the complete family tree, that the first indian races was formed by a member of the shem line marrying a daughter of the japheth line, later the indians further mixed with line of ham and produced the darker skinned indians. the descendents of ham also married into the line of shem just before abraham, at this point confirming that all of the 3 main races were now part of the divine bloodline coming down from abraham. the narrative confirms the taking of wives from foreign lands, which was ok regardless of race as long as that land followed the true way of God. the only time intermixing of races or regions was forbidden was with pagan regions. if a nation had been following God it is fine, but if that nation later became pagan, it was no longer fine to mix with them.

you can do it too. go on google, look up the table of nations chart. it shows the complete biblical family tree. then go and research the jewish sources for each family member starting with shem ham and japheth, see who they married, who their sons and daughters married, who married whose granddaughter etc and the picture will become clear.

it appears, God ensured that no race would be left behind and it wouldnt surprise me if he made a perfect mix in equal amounts in that divine lineage. as is his way.

so was Jesus black? the answer is, he wasnt white. not pure white anyway.


oh and in case i forget, in there ull have to track the family tree of Cyrus which was of arab origin. we find that the first that could be considered arab based on the mix of his predecessors was Sallah. and Sallah's line is continued down to ishmael. and we all know the story of ishamel. but worthy to note, by the sectioning off of ishmael to the desert areas, he was taken out of carrying the divine bloodline to christ. thus arabs have no claim to the divine lineage except through their father abraham.. pretty much just like all the rest of us. the pure white race was shaken off very early as the 3 families had to co-mingle with daighters and granddaughters of eachother to populate their region. and jesus unfortunately for the racist buffoons, was anything, absolutely anything but pure white.

sorry racists, but the proof is in the pudding. and i made the pudding and i ate the pudding.

It's common sense Jesus wasn't white. All you need is a minute understanding of geography ... or being able to look at a map. Christians don't know much, things like the name Jesus was common back then, and crucifixion was IN, maan. Everyone was getting crucified.

Now that im sure you are all scurrying to discover what i have discovered years now. im sure by now u have discovered it is no easy task.

here i provide you with the tools to make the task easier.

nabataea.net...

now, the chart isnt complete.. but it does show the foundations, and can be easily completed with the validated documentations on the individual families that are out there. now it should not be so hard. all you have to do, is draw some lines.

Well, Satan a Pale White Horse, whose light cast all life in shadows, and yet they think he Red and from underground.

So this should slide.

originally posted by: peppycat
a reply to: Raggedyman I'm baffled by Christians not taking in the bible as a whole and complete book about God's teachings. I believe the New Testament completes the Old testament and that in order to learn from the second book one has to study the first. Some of the best sermons I've ever heard are from preachers that take both books into consideration to fully understand Christ wanting us to love God above all else and to love one another.
The preacher I listen to serves a Christian church that does not have imagery that one would find in say a Catholic church because we don't need the what I think is a graven image of someone in heaven(second commandment)
Wouldn't loving God above all else mean taking into account all of the words breathed into man and or prophet?

The bible is two books, the Jewish book the OT written for Israel, and the NT written to converts to Christ
They are two books they are not combined into one. That's false understanding

The NT does not complete the OT, Jesus completes the OT
The OT is written to show that humanity can't obey the law, if we are to be judged by the law we all die
The law condemns, Christ advocates

The OT, book of the laws, old covenant between God and man
The NT, book of Christ becoming the lamb of god, new covenant, law of love

The law destroys, Jesus saves, that's the message

Did Jesus run around tearing down idols, no
did Jesus work on the sabbath, yes
did Jesus place people before the law yes

Jesus had issues with the religious people, the Pharisees, who put the law before loving people.
Did Jesus fight the Roman army, no he didn't, Jesus wasn't about the law of men, Jesus was interested in our spiritual commitment to God

I don't think you know Jesus, I am not saying you are not a Christian but you are not loving people,not the way Jesus suggests you do, you don't know Him. Jesus

The reason the OT was written was to indicate the messiah coming, the whole OT is a story about Jesus coming to set humanity free from sin, yes it's very important, but it's not a Christian book, it's Jewish
It's the book of the law, we are not of the law of the OT, we are under the law of love, the new covenant in Christ

As for images, look at what fundamentalism does in the Middle East, it destroys images a, blows up statues, burns artwork, smashes relics.
It's one thing to have an idol or image it's another to worship that idol or image
If your minister can't explain the difference or can't stop people worshiping an image then he isn't very good at his job. I am not advocating turning Protestant churches in to Catholic Churches, but as long as you understand the difference between worshiping an idol or having a painting to admire
It's not about relics, images and idols, it's in our spiritual attitude towards them, it's spiritual.

Jesus was God, Jesus loved everyone he met, he died for everyone, Christianity is not about the book or prophets, it's about Jesus and living for others

You are really confused and I can't help you

I cant believe nobody has put up the theme song for this conversation.......ok carry on

I think some may have an issue with it, because of what it represents to some.

He is talking about what it means to some races and I am saying that the white's that do have an issue with might because they feel self perceived power they have is dwindling away.

NOT ALL WHITE PEOPLE THINIK THIS WAY..need to clarify that because someone is bound to reply by saying I am claiming all think this way.

Majority of all races and people are decent people, to some, though, the loudest speak for everyone which is untrue.

a reply to: Raggedyman thank you for what I guess is a Christian concern, but I'll let Jesus Christ be my judge. I don't want to keep going back and forth with you as we are going off topic. Interesting after some words on a screen I have written you say I don't love people. You are very judgmental over someone you know little about... are you following Jesus or just doing his job? Thanks but no thanks. Everyone has their own interpretation on discernment... I'm not following yours thanks for the, uh? Christian concern? If you were really trying to guide me to what you perceive as the right direction, it wouldn't come off so judgmental and argumentative. Not feeling the comfort in Christ, Holy Spirit or God from you.
So thanks but no thanks. I'll continue to follow the preacher that believes some of what you say but also that all of the bible is a complete work from the very breath of God.



Just read the rest of your post, well just because we don't have images in our church, doesn't mean you should get so bent out of shape. I don't want your help nor do I feel I need it. You aren't trying to help, it seems you have an ego driven desire to be right about your relationship with Jesus Christ over anyone else's. Why is it such an issue my church doesn't have images? We have nothing against art, are you an artist and that is your issue? Thanks for getting all worked up and trying to explain why your so bothered by a few words I wrote on a screen that you read so much into, but I can't even follow what your trying to say about what I think, feel or believe, because all that matters is my personal relationship with Jesus Christ and well, he will be my judge.

It's very hard to explain in writing.
I didn't say you didn't love, I was trying to explain you sound as if you are putting the laws above love, it seems your church is more concerned with brow beating those who may have images or idols.
It's not the image or the idol, it's the worship of it.
There are no images in our church either, God doesn't care about images, it's the worship of idols, be it a statue, car, money or relationship

Also another concern is your suggestion of the Ten Commandments, what other OT commandments are Christians suppose to keep? All of them or can you pick and choose

If you can't answer that question Your concept of Christianity is fundamentally wrong, it's illogical.
You need to work on that, confusion is what the enemy wants

There are two covenants, you have one foot in the old covenant and one in the new, choose.

a reply to: Raggedyman


Jesus never worked on the sabbath. NEVER! and this is what the jews could not understand.

The labour of love is no work atall in the eyes of God.

its kinda like, if you love what you do u never work a day in your life.


it is different from working for money. working for money on the sabbath is breaking the sabbath. but working for love and to serve and alleviate suffering IS NOT.

so if you are a chef, who closes his restaurant on sundays to keep the sabbath, and a man comes to your door hungry and homeless asking for something to eat. and you prepare a meal and feed him. you have not broken the sabbath.

Jesus was, by all accounts, and by Anthropological/Historical/Genetic....not an "African". But..he was not "Aryan" either.

There are many different accounts of his 'appearance', but almost everyone agrees that he most likely was "Semitic" or "Mid Eastern". From the Levant region. Although his 'Father" is the big invisible Sky God Yahweh/El/Jehovah/Eloha...etc.etc..his Mother's side was a GALILEAN SEMITE..

He wasn't a long haired Hippie Aryan, but he definitely was NOT African.

So enough with "Black Baby Jesus"....it's stupid and erroneous.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

So enough with "Black Baby Jesus"....it's stupid and erroneous.

Yes. I was sorry to see this absurdity on the front page again this morning. We need to let this go. Let this thread go, among several others on the front page and stop giving so much attention to events that are clearly meant to cause more derision and animosity.

This site has become a breeding ground to proliferate hate among our own people. And it's User-content generated, so the members are doing it.

It is really worth a few stars to add to divisions among our own citizens?