Muslim etymology, "one who submits"

originally posted by: babloyi
a reply to: enlightenedservant
Extending the talk of one who submits being a servant or slave,

Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go.

And Moses is constantly called "Servant of God" in the Bible (as are Paul and James in some verses).
How is that written in the hebrew? "Ebed eloyhim"
Ebed Eloyhim==Abd Allah.

In and of itself, I don't particularly see it as something offensive for a follower of these faiths to be called a servant or slave of their deity, in fact, they'd probably see it as praise.

Nice find! I agree completely. I proudly serve God, though I'm admittedly a crappy "servant" right now lol. I still have a lot of work to do before I become worthy of the title. I still have a few vices & negative tendencies that I need to overcome first, which is literally the point in "jihad". It's the struggle to overcome our negative tendencies & the Devil's influence on us.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

So in that language does that make Paul and John Muslims?

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: enlightenedservant

So in that language does that make Paul and John Muslims?

Depends. John, definitely. In fact, Yahya/"John the Baptist" is a Prophet of Islam. So is his father, the Prophet Zacharias (sp?). But I can't remember with Saul/Paul. I know it doesn't recognize him as a prophet though, since It says there were no Prophets after the Prophet Essa/Jesus until the Prophet Muhammad. (sorry, too lazy to look it up)

Remember something, being "Jewish" simply means someone is a member of the Tribe of Judah. It does not mean the member follows a form of Judaism. As examples, most of the founders of communism were members of the Tribe of Judah, even though they rejected religion as the "opiate for the masses". And even the founders of the Jesuits were members of the Tribe of Judah who converted from Judaism (the religion) to Catholicism.

I'm pointing this out because people either don't know or don't care to look, but the Prophets Essa/Jesus and Yayha/"John the Baptist" were definitely members of the Tribe of Judah. But they were not followers of either of the 2 major branches of Judaism. They spent most of their lives w/the Essenes, who we regard as Muslims ("those who submit to God"). In fact, both of them were huge rivals/opponents of the Tanakh-following Jewish leaders (Sadducees) & the Oral Torah-following leaders (Pharisees), which rejected them. And the Messianic Jews of the time rejected the Prophet Essa/Jesus because he never fulfilled their messianic prophecies.

I'm actually glad you asked though. Maybe people will have a better understanding of what "Islam" is and what "Muslims" are. As I've said plenty of times, the Prophet Muhammad is simply the final messenger of God. We believe we are following the same religion of the Prophet Adam and Eve, the Prophet Noah, the Prophet Abraham, the Prophet Joseph, and many more. I'd prefer you read the Qur'an in my sig though, since it'll answer all of this and more. (btw, I have no connection to the site.)

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Does Allah mean god or is it a title of God?

their saying "there is no god but Allah" as translated into English.

Should not it have read there is no allah but allah?

If allah is a transliteration of the Arabic word god then why not just translate it god.

There is no god but god.

When I asked this to an Arab he told me that Allah is the name of the god. But Some here say it just means god.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

So then because Islam says there were no prophets after John the Baptist and Jesus, Paul is not a prophet. OK but Paul testified and Luke wrote that there were prophets.

1Cor 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
Eph Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Acts11:27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch. 28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.

Clearly the Bible teaches that there were prophets after Jesus Christ ascended so Islam is wrong on a major point of which it insists its own genuineness and authority. If it is wrong on this major point then it must be wrong on its minor points as well.

Not all prophets are from Judah. There were also prophets from other tribes like Moses who was from the tribe of Levy. Job was a prophet yet was not even Jewish. Samuel was from the tribe of Ephraim as was Zephaniah.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Your logic is flawed.

Because they are wrong about something doesn't mean they were wrong about anything else.

a reply to: onequestion

It is a major tenant upon which Islam stands. And if they are wrong on this the whole of Islam is an error.

Saying there were no other prophets but Mohammad flies against the clear teaching of Christianity on the subject of Prophets still after Jesus Christ and before Mohammad.

That alone is detrimental to the Claim of Islam about Mohammad.

Not only that, in the Holy Bible there is a criterial test for a prophet, of which Mohammad does not pass that criteria.

De 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

As far as anyone can tell Mohammad is a self proclaimed prophet, much like Jim Jones, Rev Moon, and Elizabeth Clair Prophet (last name not a title). All whom claimed to be prophets but never passed the criteria we are instructed in order to test if a person is a prophet indeed.

Mohammad claims that Islam is in addition to and above the Holy Bible. But there are three scriptures that say not to add to the Holy Bible. When God repeats something three times it is sure and true. Mohammad violated this and his justification is to say the scriptures are corrupt. But I believe God kept his word and preserved them to every generation.

Deut 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Deut 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it
Prov 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Re 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

God would not have given another scripture from another source other than his Chosen people Israel (remember Ismael was rejected and sent away) and thereby violating his own command and add to the Bible when he finished it in Revelation 22.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Does Allah mean god or is it a title of God?

their saying "there is no god but Allah" as translated into English.

Should not it have read there is no allah but allah?

If allah is a transliteration of the Arabic word god then why not just translate it god.

There is no god but god.

When I asked this to an Arab he told me that Allah is the name of the god. But Some here say it just means god.

It doesn't just mean 'god'. God in arabic is "ilah" (similar to hebrew/aramaic). "Allah" is a contraction of "Al ilah", i.e. "The God". So if you wanted to translate the muslim declaration of faith completely to english, it would be "There is no god but the God" (usually simply using capital in the second case and omitting the "the" is enough for most to understand, though).

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
So then because Islam says there were no prophets after John the Baptist and Jesus, Paul is not a prophet. OK but Paul testified and Luke wrote that there were prophets.

I'm pretty sure that even traditional Christianity differentiates between the Nevi'im and those who simply gave prophecies and had visions, so I'm not sure your this point is valid.

originally posted by: babloyiI'm pretty sure that even traditional Christianity differentiates between the Nevi'im and those who simply gave prophecies and had visions, so I'm not sure your this point is valid.

You would be pretty hard pressed to find a dissimilarity in the Holy Bible. They were one in the same and were to be tested and tried and if they failed they were not called or sent of God.