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Do Muslims and Christians worship the same God?

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posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 03:34 PM
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a reply to: John333

LOL Heresy to whom ? Not for Christians.
All these are divine, Father, the Son and Holy spirit.

There is a reason why Muhammed did what he did. He couldn´t deny Jesus as a important figure as Jesus had a many followers but what Muhammad did was putting Jesus in lower rank than he was in the views of muslims.

Muslims do not deny Jesus, they don´t deny virgin birth of Jesus. If Jesus had a virgin birth and was stated as a son of God. So where did Jesus come from if not from God ?

I guess someone was very narcistic at the era of Muhammad.. and denying birth right of God´s son.

It all depends what way you look at it and what are your religious backgrounds .. Oil and Water




posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 03:43 PM
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a reply to: Learningman

A question for you...As a christian why would I ever read from the quran?



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 03:59 PM
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originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: John333

LOL Heresy to whom ? Not for Christians.
All these are divine, Father, the Son and Holy spirit.

There is a reason why Muhammed did what he did. He couldn´t deny Jesus as a important figure as Jesus had a many followers but what Muhammad did was putting Jesus in lower rank than he was in the views of muslims.

Muslims do not deny Jesus, they don´t deny virgin birth of Jesus. If Jesus had a virgin birth and was stated as a son of God. So where did Jesus come from if not from God ?

I guess someone was very narcistic at the era of Muhammad.. and denying birth right of God´s son.

It all depends what way you look at it and what are your religious backgrounds .. Oil and Water


well there is one or two christian denominations which promote the idea of Jesus being God. but they obviously do not properly understand the trinity concept. as i explained before. only the spiritual viewpoint contains the oneness that can give that statement a correct attribution. but you live in the physical world, and have not come to know God's Spirit. so how can you speak from the spiritual perspective to someone who is asking you for the answer from a physical perspective? when a muslim asks you if you believe Jesus is God, you cannot say yes. he is asking you if the man that walked the earth was himself God of the Universe. this simply is not so. Jesus is not the alpha and omega. he is a creation of it.

explain to me how Jesus could be his own Father? preposterous!



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 04:10 PM
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a reply to: mamabeth

That depends, as a Christian, you may read it for the poetry assuming you read Arabic, my mother learned and read and said it was beautiful and flawed, and she held Christian beliefs. Or perhaps, as many have since the advent of Islamic Fundamentalism, you may have read it to learn, to counter the Muslim, the Christian and the Atheist views both for and against evert topic raised of any major import, over the last decade. I arent asking that you say your beliefs fall in line with Isis, or even thise of a so called moderate Muslim. im just asking you recognise at the core, Christianity, Judaism and Islam have the same god, Yaweh, called god by Christians and Muslims alike, unlike Judaism which gives a Holy Name.
edit on 17/12/2015 by Learningman because: spelling



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 04:12 PM
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a reply to: mamabeth

Also as a side note, you wouldn not, and whatever credit it does you, the thread is a comparison of 2, ultimately 3 religions. as an outsider looking in and having studies on a small scale all, though preferring christianity, i just think you should not dismiss my ideas because they disagree with yours. You make valid points, and there is no need for it.



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 04:17 PM
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a reply to: John333

How do we know what God is capable of, do we have same knowledge and understanding that God have? We have invented cloning and we can produce babies without parents ( genetic engineering ) .. so should we think that knowledge of God is in the same level than ours is ?

Are you saying God´s doings are preposterous ? Either way you think by saying God couldn´t be is like saying you know God and what he is capable of.. Do you ? Do you know exact essence of God ?

It is interesting dilemma.


edit on 17-12-2015 by dollukka because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 05:05 PM
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a reply to: SuperFrog

I'd say it's another example of what "Religious Freedom" means to some Evangelical Christians which is you're free as long as you're part of their Religion.

Seems like a violation of Free Speech as well and a disgrace to what it means to be on a college campus where ideas our supposed to be freely exchanged with respect.



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 08:09 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: enlightenedservant

This is some interesting theology you bring forth, but what I meant with what I said is that Islam and Christianity are offshoots of Judaism historically. Christianity began as an offshoot of Judaism in that Christians believe that Jesus fulfills the prophecies of David in being the Chosen One of Jewish tradition. Then Islam is an offshoot of Christianity (and thus a further offshoot of Judaism) in that they believe in Jesus, but feel that another prophet (Mohammad) came to Earth after Jesus to further spread God's message. I am of course speaking historically here and not so much religiously. I am aware of how the beliefs differ between the different religions, but that is something you get between different denominations.


I guess the misconception is that you're talking about it strictly from a Judeo-Christian historical perspective. But Muslims & the other "People of the Book" don't believe that at all. The Samaritans, for example, have a completely different historical account from the Tribe of Judah, and they represent 10 of the 13 Tribes of Israel (note: originally there were 12 tribes, but the Tribe of Joseph split into 2).

In fact, the Prophet Muhammad's own clan had many members of the "Hanif", which was another Abrahamic religion. They worshiped the Prophet Abraham the same way Christianity worships the Prophet Jesus. In fact, many or all of the "pagan" idols that were originally in the Kaaba were Hanif idols that glorified the Prophet Abraham, his family members, and other characters as deities and semi-deities. Not only were the Hanif around before Christianity & Judaism's creation, but the Hanif were ridiculed by Christians and Jews as heathens lol. (This is also one reason why the Prophet Muhammad forbid teaching anything other than the Qur'an; because the Hanif had false "Hadith" they attributed to the Prophet Abraham at the time. I'm convinced many of today's Hadith have origins with these Hanif versions, but that's for another topic lol)

Then there were the Sabians/Sabaeans, who are another of the "People of the Book" mentioned as followers of God in the Qur'an (here). There have been many groups over time who've claimed to be Sabians/Sabaeans in order to receive protection with Muslims, but they're generally believed to be the followers of Noah, John the Baptist, or an Ethiopian sect with ties to Solomon & ancient Sheba (those are the 3 most famous "Sabian/Sabaean" sects I know of).

In other words, the Judeo-Christian world completely ignores the historical accounts from every other group, including the other "People of the Book". So that's why students of Judeo-Christian history think Islam started with the Prophet Muhammad, when it didn't. Our belief is that every Prophet taught the same message of "Submission to God" (literally "Islam"), but the followers would eventually change the teachings until they no longer resembled this Islam. So new Prophets would be inspired to bring people back to the original teachings. (note: Not all Prophets are Messengers, as Messengers are the ones specifically given Holy Books. The Qur'an says that every tribe on Earth was sent a Prophet & the Hadith goes further, saying there were at least 200,000 Prophets.)

Sorry, I don't mean this as a rant at you. I respect you more than I let on. Just wanted to clarify that Christians & the Tribe of Judah are the only ones who teach that perspective.
edit on 17-12-2015 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 08:27 PM
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originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: John333

How do we know what God is capable of, do we have same knowledge and understanding that God have? We have invented cloning and we can produce babies without parents ( genetic engineering ) .. so should we think that knowledge of God is in the same level than ours is ?

Are you saying God´s doings are preposterous ? Either way you think by saying God couldn´t be is like saying you know God and what he is capable of.. Do you ? Do you know exact essence of God ?

It is interesting dilemma.



to answer your questions simply. as i explained the phrase... "i am God"

and i do not want your worship. worship God!

it is not a question of capability. it is an issue of factual knowledge and the English language. if God sent his only begotten SON, THEN WHO HE SENT ISNT GOD. God did the sending of SOMEONE ELSE? isnt that plain english? no interpretation or real logical deuctions required. plain simple english.
edit on 17-12-2015 by John333 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 08:56 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

a well structured and balanced post. it is true that all the prophets taught the same message. though those messages would have been designed specific to the region and it's culture. which would account for the differences in presentation and art etc. the actual message would have translated into the same words across regions. however Krazysh0t is correct not just about the historical aspect but the documented christian aspect as well. it is in genesis that it is shown that christianity was spawned from the jews. and if u follow the entire story of genesis, all the nations that followed God has a prophet and were considered Jews. Jew to God meaning "Follower of God". now if you stop following God then you are no longer a jew. when this happened and a nation was deemed pagan. God's protection would be lifted from it, and the prophet of a nearby nation sent to overthrow that nation and reconcile the errors in doctrine that had spawned since the corruption began. this was an easy task for the prophet because he would know all the things of God. because there would now be a mix of cultures since the invasion as the invading nation's people would start migrating there more frequently and residing there. the doctrines of both regions would be merged. meaning the invaded region's teachings would be thoroughly scanned, the nonsense discarded, and all the good stuff kept and incorporated into the prophet's own teaching method. and through this he would guide both regions as one. the greco roman empire and the invasion of Cyrus and his descendant Alexander serve as good example of this. but it is a standar practice throughout the old testament.

for this reason, every religion is connected to the source of God via the responsible prophet who inspired those teachings. all in agreement. none contradicting eachother because the path to God is one. only misinterpretation can lead to the perception of any contradictory teachings. thus the jewish prophets are the christian and muslim prophets. called by name they are all the same. the commandments are the same, the instructions on the things that pleases God are the same. everything is all the same. it's the same God. the divine family tree that begins with noah and even as far back as seth, the son of Adam. is fully connected. it is one family from old testament into new. with a shifting of religious allegiances occuring as we moved from old covenant into new after the jew broke their covenant. if a sect of followers became pagan, it meant it was time to leave that sect. and this is exactly the traditional and fundamental practice that causes muslims to pull themselves aside from Christians. to align with God and not be pagan, they know they must come out of participation with that group or else they may face the same punishment when it comes.



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 10:51 PM
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a reply to: John333

By saying that its same as saying Word of God is not divine. This conversation is pointless- Oil and water.



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 11:24 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

That brings a question !
How worshipping prophet Abraham is any different to worshipping Muhammad. Both beliefs worships their prophet. There is very strict code regarding Muhammad what you can and what you can´t do when talking of him and issues related to him. Muhammad is praised every sentence where his name is.. that is worshipping... no matter is there picture of him or not.



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 04:50 AM
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A bit of a long one, but it answers the exact question as posed in the OP, at least from the perspective of Islam:

(Translation of) Surah Al-Baqarah, verse 136-139
Say: We believe in God, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to all prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between any of them, and to Him do we submit.
And if they believe in the like of that which ye believe, then are they rightly guided. But if they turn away, then are they in schism, so God will suffice you against them, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.
The Baptism of God: And who can baptise better than God? And it is He whom we worship.
Say: Do you dispute with us about God? He is our Lord and your Lord, and we shall have our deeds and you shall have your deeds, and we are sincere to Him.



As far as the Christian perspective goes:

Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go.


Acts 7:31-32
When Moses saw it, he marveled at the sight; and as he drew near to observe, the voice of the Lord came to him, saying, ‘I am the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ And Moses trembled and dared not look.

So yeah, since if you ask a muslim if they worship the "God of Abraham" and they'll say yes, and if you ask a Christian if they worship the "God of Abraham" and they'll say yes, they worship the same God.
There are most definitely differences in the theology and teaching, but if one were to take that as proof that it is not the same God, then as a previous poster said, that means that there are over 2000 Gods worshiped in the churches of the US.

edit on 18-12-2015 by babloyi because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 06:11 AM
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a reply to: babloyi

Judaism denies Allah, Allah is not a God of Israel... therefor it is not a god of Christianity either.
Tell me few things.
Which one was sacrificed Isaac or Ishmael ?
Slaving jews etc. Why Quran wants God´s chosen people under such a conditions ?
How Islam paradise is so different from others? Sex orgies and heavenly riches, there is no such a thing in Torah nor in Bible, not in old testament and not in new one.
If Islam has a same God why islam wants to destroy all which is related to Judaism and Christianity. Why Quran is so hateful towards these two. There are lot of things which are different between Islam and Judaism also Christianity, they doctorine is dfferent when one spreads hate towards two others and yes also has a pagan God with daughters.

What Muhammad did was rewrite jewish history to fit his own views... nothing else

I find it sad that so many are following this heretic pagan religion but understand their right to do so.



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 06:53 AM
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a reply to: dollukka

originally posted by: dollukka
Judaism denies Allah

Does it? Interestingly enough, Islam is not considered idolatory by Judaism- it is permissible for a Jew to pray in a mosque, and have (kosher) food that has been handled by muslims- something that does not extend to christians.
From Maimonides, way back in the 12th century:


The Ishmaelites are not at all idolaters; [idolatry] has long been severed from their mouths and hearts; and they attribute to God a proper unity, a unity concerning which there is no doubt.


As for the rest of your questions, they seem to be down to misunderstandings of what Islam teaches, and some differences in what Islam teaches (compared to other religions). If that was all that it took for one group to have a different God than another, as I mentioned in my last post, there would be 2000 different gods being worshiped in the Churches of the US.

Talking about different Gods being worshiped, you sound (pardon me if that seems insulting) like the sort of person who'd consider Catholics "not true christians" (and again, pardon me if I'm wrong and being presumptuous. There are so many Christians who like to differentiate Catholics from Christians here on ATS). Do they worship a different God than the rest of Christianity?

Speaking of catholics:

2nd Vatican Council: LUMEN GENTIUM
But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.


So it seems the majority of adherents to the Abrahamic religions believe that the other adherents worship the same God (except in the case of Jews not believing that Christians today follow the same God, and some Christians not believing that Muslims follow the same God).
Yay, I guess?
edit on 18-12-2015 by babloyi because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 06:55 AM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

No offense taken. I read that whole thing as it was all new knowledge to me. I hadn't heard of these groups before. The Catholics so thoroughly purged what was considered "pagan" worship, that all things not Christian became "pagan" so sometimes I forget about all the subreligions that were wiped out when the Catholics did their purge.

Let me be clear here. I see religion as another in a long list of things in the universe that follow a general idea of how evolution works. Each new religion spawns many more sub-sets, but only the ones that resonate with the most people survive and become successful (in the past that usually just meant the religion that could kill the most people and force the rest to convert). This can distort the view of the chain of evolutionary religion events so that it looks like a singular chain when it should really look like a bunch of trees.

So I'm not disputing that these Abrahamic sects existed. Though I'll have to think on what you've said so that I can get a feel for things. I never considered that Islam was developing concurrently with first Judaism and then Christianity, not as a branch of Judaism but as a branch of the proto-Judaic religions developed right after Abraham lived.



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 07:09 AM
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a reply to: babloyi

Something from 1964 would demolish thousands years of knowledge and denial of common God? You should see the Hippie movement.
Still Questions remain unanswered.. why it is so hard i wonder. I simply love these derailed answers



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 08:59 AM
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a reply to: dollukka

originally posted by: dollukka
Something from 1964 would demolish thousands years of knowledge and denial of common God? You should see the Hippie movement.

I'm sorry, but if "It is tradition" and "That is what my father taught me and his forefathers taught him" were a valid response to exposure to the truth, Jesus would've never caught on, and we'd all still be worshipping tree and animal spirits around our cave home.


originally posted by: dollukka
Still Questions remain unanswered.. why it is so hard i wonder. I simply love these derailed answers


Are you talking about the questions based around the false presumption that "Judaism denies Allah", or some other questions?
edit on 18-12-2015 by babloyi because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 09:07 AM
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a reply to: babloyi

No you are ignoring a lot of things for example Jewish view completely. You just pick what is convenient to you... which is pretty much what islam is about



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 09:21 AM
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a reply to: dollukka

originally posted by: dollukka
No you are ignoring a lot of things for example Jewish view completely. You just pick what is convenient to you... which is pretty much what islam is about

But I just gave you the Jewish view. Allah is God, and Islam is not idolatory. How am I ignoring the jewish view completely? Your initial statement was "Judaism denies Allah". That is absolutely (and provably, by me) false. I never made the claim that Judaism and Islam agree on every little thing. But that isn't the question in the OP either, so the fact that there may be differences is irrelevant- the point remains, Muslims and Jews (and Christians, except perhaps whatever personal denomination you follow) worship the same God.



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