Do Muslims and Christians worship the same God?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: SuperFrog

So is this an example of PC run amok? Or is this religious persecution? I can't tell.

For reference, yes they are the same god. Islam and Christianity are just denominations of Judaism after all.

No,they are not the same God!

a reply to: mamabeth

Care to provide evidence to support your claim?

originally posted by: mamabeth

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: SuperFrog

So is this an example of PC run amok? Or is this religious persecution? I can't tell.

For reference, yes they are the same god. Islam and Christianity are just denominations of Judaism after all.

NO,THEY ARE NOT THE SAME GOD!

Yep, yelling at me is TOTALLY going to convince me otherwise, but hey I'm sorry that such thoughts make you uncomfortable causing you to yell at someone on the internet over it.

a reply to: Learningman

You will never accept any kind of proof that I have. The reason being
is that you don't have any faith!

originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: SuperFrog

And yet they claim to believe in Jesus ? Don´t you see it yourself there are many replies here which they agree on Jesus ? And now you say muslims do not believe that Jesus existed ?

There is something which connects Jesus and Muhammad. Both are rejected by judaism as a messiah. Muhammad tried to be announced as one and Jesus tried to avoid such an honor and live like a ordinary man.

I never said Muslims do not believe that Jesus existed. On contrary, they do and I attached links and examples from Koran.

What I said, there is not single shred of evidence outside of religious books that proves that Jesus really existed, while Mohammad is historical character.

Still, we are where we started, while teacher because of Facebook post has lost her job?! Seems that according to some here, they had right to fire her for her statement?!

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yelling? Oh, I forgot that using capital letters is considered yelling instead
of having a strong opinion and feeling.

originally posted by: Learningman
a reply to: dollukka

I commend you on stating facts and opinions, it was only recently that i fully realised 'true' Christians fully reject the OT, because from my experience of many Christians here in England OT views are used as an excuse by many clergymen, bit i respectfully disagree that the Jewry, the Christians and the followers of Allah all worship the same deity. Thanks for your civil attitude, its very much appreciated, the religious forums are a great learning tool. I would still state any religion who believes in the god Abraham believed in belong to the same deity worship, and i fully unsterdtand why the three religions make distinctions, but from the outside looking in, and as someone who is actually nterested in the old texts, I disagree with you, but I respect your reply a vast amount. I'm sure we will clash again, but if you come with the open heart and mind I present my respect will only grow. Chag Sameach brother.

(sorry if my wishes are incorrect, I know very few Jews and they always just wished me a merry xmas, no offence meant)

reject is much too strong a word. true christians EVOLVED out of the outdated practices in the OT. Christians recognize that the old covenant God had with the Jews was abolished starting with their priests deceptions and betraying the covenant by eating pork and going into the temple of God. then God sent the arabs to invade them. Christians totally accept the teachings of the old testament, but observe and learn from the errors and lessons taught therein. thereby learning from past mistakes.

basically as far as this whole religion thing goes. The countries that abandoned God were abandoned BY God. thus losing God's protection were open to invasion and loss of sovereignty. this is why noone wants to abandon God in modern day times. who wants to be the first to test if things are still like that?? not me i can tell u. me and the people of my country will love and follow God and keep his law for our protection.

a reply to: mamabeth

It's also the quickest way to get your opinion laughed at online.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: mamabeth

It's also the quickest way to get your opinion laughed at online.

I always get my opinion laughed at most of the time.I am not going
to lose any sleep over it!

a reply to: SuperFrog

Then wouldn´t that be equally important to muslims as christians to proove the historical Jesus? By saying only one of them is historical figure and other isn´t . If that would be the case Christians had been lied to by early Christians and Nicaea council and Muslims have been lied by Muhammad.. Either case do you accept that you have been lied to ?

I am not going to historical Jesus right now.. that would need totally new thread..

a reply to: mamabeth

No, true. I have reasoning and critical thinking though, paid for and passed in full, while studying Folklore and Religion. I guess my careers advisor was right.

originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: SuperFrog

Then wouldn´t that be equally important to muslims as christians to proove the historical Jesus? By saying only one of them is historical figure and other isn´t . If that would be the case Christians had been lied to by early Christians and Nicaea council and Muslims have been lied by Muhammad.. Either case do you accept that you have been lied to ?

I am not going to historical Jesus right now.. that would need totally new thread..

Well, interesting conclusion... don't you think so??

What if all of it was just a lie??

originally posted by: Learningman
a reply to: mamabeth

No, true. I have reasoning and critical thinking though, paid for and passed in full, while studying Folklore and Religion. I guess my careers advisor was right.

I also have reasoning and critical thinking and took a Bible Study course through
a Bible College.My son has a degree from a Bible College.

well guys i found a link that should act as a great starting point. everyone here likes shortcuts right? ok so here we go

pressthat.wordpress.com...

please read and re-read and analyse these passages. and if ur feeling like really being golden.. read both the Quran and the Bible. the bible takes about 2 weeks to read. a couple hrs a day just like a novel. its actually a pretty good story and u might even find urself reading a couple extra hrs cuz ur not ready to put it down. every question that might pop up in ur head is answered later down. there are no contradictions. what there is is called the representation of the paradox.

Every religion has to address the paradox of existence. the dual sided, dual-faceted aspects of the foundation of creation that permeate from the micro up to the macro and loops back on itself seamlessly to create infinity. this secret key of spirituality is the understanding of the universe' creation and operation, it's source and objectives. and why we should use our free will to also perform in line with those objectives. it's the ying and yang. the reason why a little male is in every female and a little female is in every male.

now when you meet a paradox you may not know it. and if you do fathom it, you may not be able to apply it in it's rightful place. and this si crucial to proper interpretation. thus i have a devised a formula. There are things in both books which come out of the mouth of God. and there are things which come from various men. the prophets,Jesus, God, Muhammad.

now it is very simple. All doctrines confirm that we must believe in God's prophets and follow their way. it also instills and enforces that no prophet contradicts another prophet. as in.. not even would any prophet have ever gone to war with another prophet. in essence, no prophet would have disagreement on spiritual matters and thus will have perfectly agreeable life philosophies gained from the guidance of the spirit. thus the formula is simple and is as follows.

"If my interpretation of a true prophet of God/Allah's words contradicts any instruction that is perceived to have come directly from God himself. then that interpretation is wrong or misapplied."

for example:

originally posted by: infolurker
Jesus - God (John 1:1; John 10:30).

now i want to remind you that common sense is a gift from God which he gave to us to aid us also in finding him and understanding his teachings. from a very logical point of view.. Jesus did not create the universe. Jesus did Not create mankind. Jesus is not who we consider supreme God. Jesus is an offspring of God. thus.. NO Jesus cannot and is not God Supreme God Almighty Father. to disagree with this is quite insane.. but if you must rely on instruction let us look at what the bible says and what Jesus says about the issue for himself.

John 12
47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. 50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

can it be any more clear. This is Jesus speaking on the issue for himself. Quoted out of his own mouth that His Father, our God sent him. they are 2 separate entities. God and Son/Spiritual offspring are not the same person from a physical viewpoint.

Hwever, in spiritual oneness. this is how they can be perceived as One, In Essence. the Essence of Spirit, eternity and sinlessness is common to God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. and they are spiritually one with God performing the perfect and pure will of God such that there is no difference if God performed it his very self. Thus all they do can be considered as tho God did it. this is the "co-equality" aspect.

Jesus was Jesus. God is God. there is no confusion or anything fancy there. just the paradox. that there are two viewpoints. the physical viewpoint and the spiritual viewpoint. speaking of the physical and spiritual viewpoints interchangeably is certainly a recipe for confusion. There is oneness in spirit. but there is division in the flesh/physical/material. thus.. Jesus is not God.

a reply to: mamabeth

Not to play top trumps but I'd say that seeing that the subject is about more than just the Bible, but the Quran too, as it is an evaluation of more than one insider view of a religion, one of us be less biased and more informed on the subject at hand.

a reply to: John333

As we have seen already without all those long paragraphs, how Jesus is seen is dictated by religious views. Your view against Christian view.
just couple of questions is needed

God is divine ? Yes or No ?
If you answered Yes, then next question
Word of God is divine ? Yes or No ?
If you said yes to those two
Then you understand when eternal word of God has become to flesh, wouldn´t that be divine aswell.. it is still word of God.

a reply to: dollukka

God is divine ? Yes or No ?
If you answered Yes, then next question
Word of God is divine ? Yes or No ?
If you said yes to those two

Much like Islam and Judaism. Thus cementing my point. It is not a personal attack, and I think nobody should take shame in it. Your respective religion differentiates, even if people hate Islam they will not hate Christianity nor Judaism for your separate interpretations from the same Deity.

a reply to: John333



I get it, your one of the Chrislam faction. You will continue to erode the Word in favor of some one sided tolerance concession to the Islamic religion in the name of physical peace on earth, kumbaya nonsense.


Given that, It is indisputable that Islam does not accept Yashua Hamaschia as the savior of mankind, the only begotten son of God, and the only way to the father. (The very definition of Christianity)

Say this one aloud: There is no God but YWHW and Yeshua Hamashiach is the Word of YWHW, the Savior of Mankind, The only begotten son of YWHW.

Now see if any of your Chrislam or Islamic associates will profess this. So much for Chrislam foolishness.


And if you will confess with your mouth our Lord Yeshua, and you will believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall have life.

If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.







John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
In the origin The Word had been existing and That Word had been existing with God and That Word was himself God.

--------------

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

a reply to: Learningman

Well whatever way you look, you see oil and water which do not blend well together. There are huge differences in their view of their Gods and doctorines. Why to force ? Its useless

originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: John333


Word of God is divine ? Yes or No ?
If you said yes to those two
Then you understand when eternal word of God has become to flesh, wouldn´t that be divine aswell.. it is still word of God.

is the word of God divine? i want to point out how technical that simple seeming question is.

what viewpoint are u looking at it from? are u questioning whether the bible is truly the word of God? what do you consider the "Word" of God? this has a few translations. the word could be the creation he spoke into existence. the "Word of God" can be what christians use to refer to the bible. or even muslims and Jews to their Holy Books.

but besides that im not sure. i think ur missing the point. the word of God may have become flesh. but the word of God.. still... isnt.. God. it's God's word. meaning something he owns. still sperate from God himself. his word still falls under the category of One of his creations. Just like Jesus, and just like the Holy Spirit, and the universe and you and me. created by God. but it is not God himself.

Now!
there is a situation which allows for this statement. and it is again interpretation. and Jesus could have well said I am God. thus too could any prophet who has achieved spiritual oneness with God. it is like a kind of phrase that can be said by any who become anointed by God. "I am God" means.." i have achieved Godhood and awareness of spirit, and I have come to know the Spirit of God". in this context. it is completely acceptable. for indeed we are all Gods. lesser Gods. there are higher Gods than us, and Supreme God sits above them all. We are Child-Gods. Children of God. here in our containers of flesh our spirits are given the opportunity to grow and achieve eternal spiritual life through God's blessing. he has provided us a way to achieve his honour and redeem ourselves. he has sent his prophets with his knowledge of spirit to teach the truth of all creation. how to serve him, and achieve the objective of our creation, to graduate into his kingdom as immortal Gods well knowledgeable of the way and deserving of paradise. u should know better. God is not Jesus. and by furthering such statements you contribute to the conflict where muslims cannot deny that what you are stating is truly heresy. that is not Christian doctrine at all. you cant say Jesus is God. any analogy along those lines from a physical viewpoint is heresy.

when we achieve God's blessing in this life. we will walk and know God's spirit is with us 24/7. this is the promise to the prophets. and to the people aspiring to know God. when we achieve that blessing and come to know God's Spirit we become the Sons or Daughters of God. these are people who have achieved that blessing of Godhood in this life. are inducted into the family of eternal Gods. but none of them still, is Supreme God Almighty Father. only in matters of performing his Will.