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Do Muslims and Christians worship the same God?

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posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 11:22 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: infolurker

But most Christian tradition is an amalgamation of pagan beliefs...


True, the Catholics have definitely with rituals, holidays, saints, and intermediaries.

But there is one truth that cannot be compromised or changed and that is Jesus Christ, the only begotten son of God died on the cross for our sins. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.

Any compromise on that, and you are not a follower of Yeshua.




posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 11:25 AM
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originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: infolurker

But most Christian tradition is an amalgamation of pagan beliefs...


True, the Catholics have definitely with rituals, holidays, saints, and intermediaries.

But there is one truth that cannot be compromised or changed and that is Jesus Christ, the only begotten son of God died on the cross for our sins. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.


Well I hesitate to call that "truth" since we have no objective evidence proving it true.


Any compromise on that, and you are not a follower of Yeshua.


But Islam follows Isa, who is Jesus. Heck he's even set to return in the end times and lead the faithful to glory.
edit on 17-12-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 11:28 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Ummmm.. incorrect.

You are incorrect.

Jesus - Son of God (Matt. 3:17; John 10:30).
Isa - Allah is not a father and has no sons or daughters; to say so is shirk, the unpardonable sin (see Surah 19:88-92; 112:3).

Jesus - Eternal (John 8:58; John 17:5).
Isa - Created from dust, as Adam was (Surah 3:59).

Jesus - Co-equal, co-eternal with the Father, Holy Spirit (John 1:1-14; Col. 1:15-20; Phil. 2:5-11; Heb. 1:1-13).
Isa - Only a man, a prophet. It is shirk, the unpardonable sin, to ascribe deity to Jesus. Allah is not Triune (Surah 4:171; 5:73, 116).

Jesus - God (John 1:1; John 10:30).
Isa - Not God (Surah 5:17, 72-3, 75). Jesus was an apostle of Allah (Surah 4:171); a messenger only (Surah 5:75; 19:30).

Jesus - Greater than ANY man (Matt. 12:42).
Isa - Subservient to Muhammad, A great prophet; not as great as Muhammad. Jesus was a worshiper of Allah (Surah 3:51; 9:30).

Jesus - Savior of the world (Luke 2:11; John 4:42; Acts 5:31).
Isa - Prophet of Allah; human messenger.

Jesus - Died on the cross and was resurrected.
Isa - Did not die on the cross.

Isa - Subordinate to the Mahdi, inferiority of rank to the Mahdi. Isa's primary purpose will be to oversee the institution and the enforcement of the Islamic Shariah law all over the world. Isa will eliminate all other religions on the earth other than Islam. Isa will destroy Christianity.

Similarities between the biblical narratives of the end-times and the Islamic narratives do not end with the Isa / Mahdi antichrist / false prophet scenario.


The Muslim Jesus (Isa), in both his nature and actions is far different than the biblical Jesus. Rather than coming to reign as King and Messiah over all the earth from Jerusalem, Jesus instead comes to convert the world to Islam or kill those who refuse to do so. Instead of coming to save and deliver faithful Christians and Jews, he comes instead to kill and slaughter them.

1. Isa is said to return to the earth in the last-days near a mosque in Damascus.

2. He will arrive at a time when the Mahdi and his army will be preparing to pray.

3. He will be offered to lead the prayer by the Mahdi, but will decline in direct deference to the Mahdi who Isa declares to be the leader of the Muslims.

4. He will then pray behind the Mahdi as a subordinate.

5. He will be a faithful Muslim

6. He will make pilgrimage to Mecca.

7. He will visit Muhammad’s grave, and salute Muhammad, whereby Muhammad will return the salute from the grave.

8. He will destroy Christianity.

9. He will repeal the jizyah tax thus causing the only option for Jews and Christians to convert to Islam or die.

10. He will establish Islamic Shari’ah (Law) throughout the entire earth.

11. He will kill the Antichrist and his followers made up largely of Jews and women.

12. He will remain on the earth for roughly forty years, during which time he will marry, have children and then die.




edit on 17-12-2015 by infolurker because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 11:34 AM
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a reply to: infolurker

I'm really not going to debate the differences between how Jesus is represented between Islam and Christianity, I'm pretty sure it is indisputable that the two religions see him differently.



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 11:36 AM
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originally posted by: LittleByLittle
From my point of view no it is not the same god (view),

Paul changed the story in the new testament and therefor changed the view of what god was for those who followed Yeshua:s teachings. Muhammad created his own view of what god was and made himself the prophet of that view.

From my point of view both where very disturbed souls. Interesting that humans choose to listen to people "who behave insanely and have murdered people" for spiritual advice instead of souls who have never hurt a fly. That says something of the Abrahamic followers from my point of view. Following a wolf in sheep skin instead of a soul who really is walking the golden path never deviating from the golden rule.


are we differentiating between the Quran itself and muhammad? or are you using Muhammad to mean the same as The Quran(followers of islam)

i can fix it for you.

remember when Abraham's son Ishmael was sent off into the wilderness? God took him and his mother and taught them how to survive and guided them to build nations. those were the arabs. in egypt they were slaves to the jews those who did not know God. The Jewish slaveowners were instructed by God to treat their slaves fairly but quite importantly, the slaves wer to undergo initiation and training as Jews beginning with circumcision as part of the covenant. a practice that muslims still perform today.

well ishamel went off to form those nations with the 12 princes God promised him he would birth. and we got IS-LAM. ishamel was instructed by the same Jewish/Christian God and his Arab people followed God, then the Jews themselves fell away, and God send the Arabs to invade and destroy.

now being the same God the ishmaelites would obey moses. in arabic he is called Musa. and the foremost teachings and foundation of their doctrine is the 10 commandments. or 10 Laws. Thus we have Musalem/Moslem/moslim, Muslim. meaning followers of the One God under the Law of Moses.

now, do you remember what God said was going to happen when ishmael was to be born? let me quote...

Genesis 16:11-12English Standard Version (ESV)

11 And the angel of the Lord said to her,

“Behold, you are pregnant
and shall bear a son.
You shall call his name Ishmael,[a]
because the Lord has listened to your affliction.
12 He shall be a wild donkey of a man,
his hand against everyone
and everyone's hand against him,
and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen.”


now, God of Abraham created the arab nations, guided and indoctrinated them, set them to be a thorn in the side of the wold's nations. can you see why? it is part of God's plan.



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 11:39 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: infolurker

I'm really not going to debate the differences between how Jesus is represented between Islam and Christianity, I'm pretty sure it is indisputable that the two religions see him differently.



It is apparent that the Islamic Mahdi and Isa are the biblical Anti-Christ / False Prophet



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 11:39 AM
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a reply to: infolurker




Ummmm.. incorrect.

You are incorrect.


Oh well I guess if you say so.

However,




Isa - Subordinate to the Mahdi, inferiority of rank to the Mahdi. Isa's primary purpose will be to oversee the institution and the enforcement of the Islamic Shariah law all over the world. Isa will eliminate all other religions on the earth other than Islam. Isa will destroy Christianity.


this is is a little different to how its been explained to me by Muslims.

Anyway,

I can see you need to keep up the 'good fight' and keep spreading your version of truth so I will leave you to it.






It is apparent that the Islamic Mahdi and Isa are the biblical Anti-Christ / False Prophet


Yes it is,

but to others its apparent they are the same.

welcome to earth.

Diversity, division, a test to find some sort of unity.

Do you think you will pass?
edit on 17-12-2015 by InhaleExhale because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 11:41 AM
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originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: infolurker

I'm really not going to debate the differences between how Jesus is represented between Islam and Christianity, I'm pretty sure it is indisputable that the two religions see him differently.



It is apparent that the Islamic Mahdi and Isa are the biblical Anti-Christ / False Prophet


There is no such thing as the biblical anti-christ. All anti-christ means is someone who opposes christ. It isn't supposed to be a specific figure.



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 11:41 AM
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a reply to: InhaleExhale

You can read it for yourself. It is common knowledge. Give it a shot.



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 11:45 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

If you choose, you can call that person the Man of Sin or Man of Lawlessness.
www.biblegateway.com...
3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 11:48 AM
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a reply to: infolurker

Awesome. I just think you are looking in the wrong place if you are going to point to someone from another religion with the same origins as your own as the source of this person. Hey, you are free to think otherwise, but I'd say that is an opinion that fosters divisiveness and I'm pretty sure that divisiveness isn't something that your Christian god promotes.
edit on 17-12-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 11:48 AM
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originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: InhaleExhale

You can read it for yourself. It is common knowledge. Give it a shot.


I have, and have discussed how its interpreted by those that follow the faith.

You see I cant read Arabic so all I had was English translations, a few paint a slightly different picture, hence my reason for taking it further and discussing my interpretations with that of some Muslims I know.



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 12:32 PM
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a reply to: dollukka

To play devils advocate, Christianity swallowed much from other faiths too, such as the horned one, Yuletide and so on.



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 01:04 PM
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originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Ummmm.. incorrect.

You are incorrect.

Jesus - Son of God (Matt. 3:17; John 10:30).
Isa - Allah is not a father and has no sons or daughters; to say so is shirk, the unpardonable sin (see Surah 19:88-92; 112:3).

Jesus - Eternal (John 8:58; John 17:5).
Isa - Created from dust, as Adam was (Surah 3:59).

Jesus - Co-equal, co-eternal with the Father, Holy Spirit (John 1:1-14; Col. 1:15-20; Phil. 2:5-11; Heb. 1:1-13).
Isa - Only a man, a prophet. It is shirk, the unpardonable sin, to ascribe deity to Jesus. Allah is not Triune (Surah 4:171; 5:73, 116).

Jesus - God (John 1:1; John 10:30).
Isa - Not God (Surah 5:17, 72-3, 75). Jesus was an apostle of Allah (Surah 4:171); a messenger only (Surah 5:75; 19:30).

Jesus - Greater than ANY man (Matt. 12:42).
Isa - Subservient to Muhammad, A great prophet; not as great as Muhammad. Jesus was a worshiper of Allah (Surah 3:51; 9:30).

Jesus - Savior of the world (Luke 2:11; John 4:42; Acts 5:31).
Isa - Prophet of Allah; human messenger.

Jesus - Died on the cross and was resurrected.
Isa - Did not die on the cross.

Isa - Subordinate to the Mahdi, inferiority of rank to the Mahdi. Isa's primary purpose will be to oversee the institution and the enforcement of the Islamic Shariah law all over the world. Isa will eliminate all other religions on the earth other than Islam. Isa will destroy Christianity.

Similarities between the biblical narratives of the end-times and the Islamic narratives do not end with the Isa / Mahdi antichrist / false prophet scenario.


The Muslim Jesus (Isa), in both his nature and actions is far different than the biblical Jesus. Rather than coming to reign as King and Messiah over all the earth from Jerusalem, Jesus instead comes to convert the world to Islam or kill those who refuse to do so. Instead of coming to save and deliver faithful Christians and Jews, he comes instead to kill and slaughter them.

1. Isa is said to return to the earth in the last-days near a mosque in Damascus.

2. He will arrive at a time when the Mahdi and his army will be preparing to pray.

3. He will be offered to lead the prayer by the Mahdi, but will decline in direct deference to the Mahdi who Isa declares to be the leader of the Muslims.

4. He will then pray behind the Mahdi as a subordinate.

5. He will be a faithful Muslim

6. He will make pilgrimage to Mecca.

7. He will visit Muhammad’s grave, and salute Muhammad, whereby Muhammad will return the salute from the grave.

8. He will destroy Christianity.

9. He will repeal the jizyah tax thus causing the only option for Jews and Christians to convert to Islam or die.

10. He will establish Islamic Shari’ah (Law) throughout the entire earth.

11. He will kill the Antichrist and his followers made up largely of Jews and women.

12. He will remain on the earth for roughly forty years, during which time he will marry, have children and then die.





damn dude.. i mean i didnt make it half way but.. really.. really poorly taken out of context passages. u took so many out of context you even contradicted christian doctrine with christian doctrine. in my book thats called taking shortcuts. please.. let us be respectful here. if ur going to argue about biblical and Quranic interpretation please tell me you have read the whole thing of both. ppl can take things out of context to express almost any perspective they want. if you read the whole thing you wouldnt be taking passages out of context like that and attributing them meanings they have none of.



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 01:10 PM
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a reply to: Learningman

Yuletide ( Joulu ) is Scandinavian pagan time of Winter Solstice that due the name. Christmas is the name for that time for non Scandinavian. We don´t know when exactly Jesus was born, what day or which month. Having a birthday is pretty much the same as it is for Orphan child who have no records of actual birthday.. often it is set to some day of the year. Christmas as a time is not mentioned in Bible either.

Devils horns are not described in bible or how devil looks like, what we know about Satan according to bible he was one of the God´s angels who disagreed with God and was sent to hell. If he was and Angel then he would have looked like the rest of the Angels.

You need to separate peoples beliefs demographically as when Christianity arrived to these pagan nations it is colored with old assumptions what Devil looks like etc. There is a huge difference between assumptions and what is written in Bible.

Instead Islam is a story by one man who wanted to be known as Allah´s chosen one, the one and only who knew what Allah wants ( pretty much in same way as one reply here with superiority.. which amused me ). Allah was a god of his pagan tribe.

Where is love in Quran? Where is the " Father " ?
Muhammad´s own father died 6 months before his birth, so he didn´t experience the love of father and thus God as a father for people do not exist in Quran either.. When father is used in Judaism and Christianity describing God.




edit on 17-12-2015 by dollukka because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 01:16 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: infolurker

I'm really not going to debate the differences between how Jesus is represented between Islam and Christianity, I'm pretty sure it is indisputable that the two religions see him differently.



It is apparent that the Islamic Mahdi and Isa are the biblical Anti-Christ / False Prophet


There is no such thing as the biblical anti-christ. All anti-christ means is someone who opposes christ. It isn't supposed to be a specific figure.


Anti-Anointment is the exact meaning off Anti-Christ. You can call yourself a follower of Jesus/Yeshua and still be Anti-Anointment making sure souls miss the mark by creating ambiguity.



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 01:24 PM
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originally posted by: dollukka
Devils horns are not described in bible or how devil looks like, what we know about Satan according to bible he was one of the God´s angels who disagreed with God and was sent to hell. If he was and Angel then he would have looked like the rest of the Angels.


So if anyone objected God killing everyone through great flood, according to bible, would be devil, even such objection would be justified?!

Interesting how one acts like devil, yet you believe other guy might be devil, just because your book tells you so...

As for Muhammad, at least there is historical reference for him, being a real person. We don't have such a thing for Jesus.
edit on 17-12-2015 by SuperFrog because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: SuperFrog

And yet they claim to believe in Jesus ? Don´t you see it yourself there are many replies here which they agree on Jesus ? And now you say muslims do not believe that Jesus existed ?

There is something which connects Jesus and Muhammad. Both are rejected by judaism as a messiah. Muhammad tried to be announced as one and Jesus tried to avoid such an honor and live like a ordinary man.



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 01:56 PM
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a reply to: ladyinwaiting


And as for the atheists, It boggles the mind why they give a rat's derriere................


Because religion is fascinating. We all live on this planet - it's hard to ignore. Even if you wanted to. But beyond that - anthropology, archaeology, history, literature, philosophy, politics, art, music...so much of it involves religion

:-)

A person doesn't have to believe in it in order to study it - and actually be quite knowledgeable. Much of it is beautiful, and a part of our cultural background as much as it is for anybody



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 01:59 PM
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a reply to: dollukka

I commend you on stating facts and opinions, it was only recently that i fully realised 'true' Christians fully reject the OT, because from my experience of many Christians here in England OT views are used as an excuse by many clergymen, bit i respectfully disagree that the Jewry, the Christians and the followers of Allah all worship the same deity. Thanks for your civil attitude, its very much appreciated, the religious forums are a great learning tool. I would still state any religion who believes in the god Abraham believed in belong to the same deity worship, and i fully unsterdtand why the three religions make distinctions, but from the outside looking in, and as someone who is actually nterested in the old texts, I disagree with you, but I respect your reply a vast amount. I'm sure we will clash again, but if you come with the open heart and mind I present my respect will only grow. Chag Sameach brother.

(sorry if my wishes are incorrect, I know very few Jews and they always just wished me a merry xmas, no offence meant)




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