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Yale students sign petition to repeal first amendment

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posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 04:42 PM
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a reply to: reldra




Watching the entire video, though, the guy with the petition kind of rambles on. He talks about changing parts of the constitution often and that it is a living document and that it should be a 'safe place'- God only knows what busy students on the way to class make of that.


There's really no excuse. If it was that easy to get them to sign it, I could only imagine what a charismatic politician could do.




posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 04:43 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: reldra

I also asked for example. See, what one person considers to fit under those umbrellas may differ from what another considers to fit under those umbrellas.

If I am to avoid offending you and you specifically, I have to know what your personal thresholds are.



There are general thresholds. If you understand polite society, you have a good guide. Or, try federal guidelines on discrimination and model your speech after it. Again, it is a guide. You can say what you want, but I think you KNOW what is nice and not nice to say.



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 04:43 PM
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a reply to: reldra

But if my actions end up denying YOUR rights, then it is an infringement, correct?



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 04:44 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: reldra

But if my actions end up denying YOUR rights, then it is an infringement, correct?


We are talking about speech, not actions.

it also depends on where. A private website? A government building? A public street? A school?
edit on 16-12-2015 by reldra because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 04:44 PM
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a reply to: reldra

Do I?

People who thought All Lives Matter was a nice thing to say thought so.



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 04:45 PM
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originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: reldra

But if my actions end up denying YOUR rights, then it is an infringement, correct?


We are talking about speech, not actions.


Signing a petition is an action, not speech.



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 04:45 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope



I could only imagine what a charismatic politician could do.


That is true. It worked for Obama and now it's working for Trump.

Jesus, apparently there are snowflakes everywhere.

I shouldn't say that, though. Now a bunch of people will believe that since there are snowflakes everywhere, global warming must be fake.



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 04:46 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: reldra

Do I?

People who thought All Lives Matter was a nice thing to say thought so.



It is not a particularly bad thing to say, but it takes from the meaning of what black lives matters meant. I don;t find it particularly offensive, though.

The statement Black Lives Matter was important to events surrounding it. IE: Young black men being shot by police and un fair treatment in courts. Obviously ALL lives matter, but since it is obvious, it didn;t need to become a 'catchphrase'. It was made one to try to distract from BLM .
edit on 16-12-2015 by reldra because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-12-2015 by reldra because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 04:48 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: reldra

But if my actions end up denying YOUR rights, then it is an infringement, correct?


We are talking about speech, not actions.


Signing a petition is an action, not speech.


There is a petition clause in the first amendment.



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 04:51 PM
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a reply to: reldra

If it was bad enough that people had to issue official apologies for saying it, then some people somewhere did.

That's my point though. YOU didn't find it that offensive, but people had to apologize for it.

So what is offensive to one might not be to others. It's a bit tough to say, "Just don't be offensive." There is no way to figure that one out without being able to read another's mind, and this is the problem with PC and how it clashes with freedom of speech. People have decided that they want to take the notion of political correctness so far that they don't EVER want to be made to feel even the tiniest bit uncomfortable, and it's an impossibility.

I might say things that I don't think are offensive or things that are intended to be hurtful at all, but because you decide thay are offensive and hurtful to you ... now I'm in the position of being made into a bully for having said them.

In short, we have stripped out the utterer's intent in favor of the recipient's feelings which puts everyone in an untenable position because no one can know before they speak what feeling they might provoke.



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 04:51 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
You have to admit, an adult signing a petition to repeal the first amendment is an absurdity. The fact that it happens at an Ivy league school makes it that much worse.


Well even rich kids are impressionable. You know young people, a slick tongue and confidence can catch people off intellectual guard. People were able to do that to me when I was younger. With less frequency as time has progressed there are rare instances when this happens still. My Step Dad is the only one who can tongue tie me that way with any regularity. It is part of him being my senior and I always try to be too pleasing around him to make him comfortable. May be that is not right for me to do that. He knows this and sometimes plays a little game.

Yes, a lot of people still are too vulnerable in public. The state and the media do not encourage even in education the street savvy and applying analysis to our every day lives. Wow, if we all did that how many of us would realise just how exploited we are. Certainly, many on ATS see the woods for the trees and know it all too well.

Ok, there is a hole in the young people that is open to exploitation. Put up some intellectual guard. I said in a thread a while ago here on ATS that I don't trust anybody, not even my parents. Well I have told you why that is. It is nothing heavy. It is just about questioning everything and not laying yourself open to exploitation and possible abuse.

This guy proves it is easy to be conned when you are caught off guard by a smooth talker, especially in youth and old age when for various reasons our guard gets lowered.

I am reluctant with all the petitions. Then I will only sign stuff that really matters.

Another side argument here seems to be about the virtues of intelligence, intellect and academic intelligence not meaning or equating with street wisdom kind of intelligence, savvy or common sense. Well, certainly academic intelligence is no sure way to life intelligence. Some very high ranking scientists and academics have done awful things, like the Nazi Scientists of the Third Reich and CIA Doctors in MK Ultra (and their KGB opposites just as guilty). Physicists still make bad life decisions and get divorced, believe a politician when he is feeding them the proverbial BS, etc.

Best not to be educating people with only academia. Life experience and common sense are just as vital. Prepare your kids for a world where they are at risk of scammers of every kind. Checking out the situation is such a vital life and even SURVIVAL skill.


edit on 16-12-2015 by Revolution9 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 04:52 PM
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a reply to: introvert




That is true. It worked for Obama and now it's working for Trump.

Jesus, apparently there are snowflakes everywhere.

I shouldn't say that, though. Now a bunch of people will believe that since there are snowflakes everywhere, global warming must be fake.


I wish these kids considered themselves, and others, special snowflakes. They would be less inclined to deviate into group identity politics, and might start treating people like individuals.



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 04:53 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: reldra

But if my actions end up denying YOUR rights, then it is an infringement, correct?


We are talking about speech, not actions.


Signing a petition is an action, not speech.


There is a petition clause in the first amendment.


Petition for redress of grievances. So now people are aggrieved that they can speak freely.

Of course, the Founders likely meant petition more in the sense of to address a petition to or to ask for by petition; request formally where a petition is a solemn supplication or request to a superior authority; an entreaty and not a legal document as it has become today.
edit on 16-12-2015 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 05:00 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: reldra

If it was bad enough that people had to issue official apologies for saying it, then some people somewhere did.

That's my point though. YOU didn't find it that offensive, but people had to apologize for it.

So what is offensive to one might not be to others. It's a bit tough to say, "Just don't be offensive." There is no way to figure that one out without being able to read another's mind, and this is the problem with PC and how it clashes with freedom of speech. People have decided that they want to take the notion of political correctness so far that they don't EVER want to be made to feel even the tiniest bit uncomfortable, and it's an impossibility.

I might say things that I don't think are offensive or things that are intended to be hurtful at all, but because you decide thay are offensive and hurtful to you ... now I'm in the position of being made into a bully for having said them.

In short, we have stripped out the utterer's intent in favor of the recipient's feelings which puts everyone in an untenable position because no one can know before they speak what feeling they might provoke.



Yes, some found All Lives Matter offensive since it was created to distract. I was not distracted, though.

One doesn;t have to step on eggshells to not be offensive.

Don't say obviously offensive things about people of other races, religions and sexual orientations.

Gay people should be able to be happy and marry and adopt/have children. No priest will ever be forced to wed them. A cake shop may have to bake the damn cake though (but not supply a male/male female/female cake topper if they don;t want to- that would cause them to have to procure an item they don;t usually carry in stock).

Don's say all or most black people want entitlements or riot all the time.

Don;t say all Muslims shouldn't be allowed to come into the country. It is probably not a good idea to protest outside of random mosques. Don't say Islam orders it's followers to kill all non Muslims, it is not true.

I try to be more lenient on students, even if they sometimes get it wrong, they have the creative thought time to get it right, a lot.

Don't say that a woman that has an abortion is killing a child.

Don;t say all Christians want to take away female and sexual rights.

Don;t say all illegal/undocuments should leave now (it;s not possible anyway).

Those are some. There are probably more.

you wanted a guide. These are not laws. you asked me.

It is not untenable. just be considerate.

edit on 16-12-2015 by reldra because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 05:03 PM
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a reply to: reldra

That's fine. You are likely to be offended because in order to have a discussion of some of those topics, we're going to have to cover some of that ground.

Understand I have no desire to maliciously offend you, but my beliefs on some of those topics run counter to yours, so you will hear speech that brings out ideas that differ from what you would prefer to hear. I can't help if you find it offensive.

I personally find it equally offensive that you don't see how some of those positions are offensive to me.



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 05:07 PM
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This reminds me of the scariest "it's funny cause it's true" joke I ever heard.

Q: What do you call the student who graduates last in his class at medical school?

A: Doctor



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 05:07 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: reldra

That's fine. You are likely to be offended because in order to have a discussion of some of those topics, we're going to have to cover some of that ground.

Understand I have no desire to maliciously offend you, but my beliefs on some of those topics run counter to yours, so you will hear speech that brings out ideas that differ from what you would prefer to hear. I can't help if you find it offensive.

I personally find it equally offensive that you don't see how some of those positions are offensive to me.



Then we will offend each other. It is legal to do so.

Then we end up in the situation, sometimes, where you will appear to be a bigot and I may appear to be a 'PC Crowd' person. It appears that is the way it is.


I starred your post, the one I am replying to. I do star your posts more often than you may think. I do know we have a lot of things that we disagree on, though.
edit on 16-12-2015 by reldra because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 05:08 PM
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originally posted by: ApparentlyStupid
This reminds me of the scariest "it's funny cause it's true" joke I ever heard.

Q: What do you call the student who graduates last in his class at medical school?

A: Doctor


Apparently not so stupid. I like your humour. Very dry with a very real twist!




posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 05:11 PM
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originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: reldra

That's fine. You are likely to be offended because in order to have a discussion of some of those topics, we're going to have to cover some of that ground.

Understand I have no desire to maliciously offend you, but my beliefs on some of those topics run counter to yours, so you will hear speech that brings out ideas that differ from what you would prefer to hear. I can't help if you find it offensive.

I personally find it equally offensive that you don't see how some of those positions are offensive to me.



Then we will offend each other. It is legal to do so.

Then we end up in the situation, sometimes, where you will appear to be a bigot and I may appear to be a 'PC Crowd' person. It appears that is the way it is.


Ding Ding! At the end of round 15 we have a judges' tie between Reldra and Ketsuko! Draw!

Lol, what are you two like. I give you both a worthy



edit on 16-12-2015 by Revolution9 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 05:14 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: reldra

But if my actions end up denying YOUR rights, then it is an infringement, correct?


We are talking about speech, not actions.


Signing a petition is an action, not speech.


There is a petition clause in the first amendment.


Petition for redress of grievances. So now people are aggrieved that they can speak freely.

Of course, the Founders likely meant petition more in the sense of to address a petition to or to ask for by petition; request formally where a petition is a solemn supplication or request to a superior authority; an entreaty and not a legal document as it has become today.


That's your opinion, but that section has been used in many court cases. We cannot simply change the rights of individuals based on your interpretation of the Founder's intent.




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