Allrighty then, if you want to start a thread about the documented human rights abuses of the Serbians and then numbers of people they killed in the Balkans ethnic cleansing campaign then please start a thread on it in the appropriate forum. This is and will be the one and only notice of this.

Thank You For you Attention To This Matter

FredT

Edit: added the word "documented"

[edit on 1/10/05 by FredT]

Well there certainly seems to be a lot of national pride on both sides of this story.

Because of these sensitivities I feel the need to say that IF a B-2 was shot down I would truly like to know about it. But I do not subscribe to the hysterical ranting of the "if it's US it's got to suck" mindset.

I simply would like to know the truth.

No doubt Venik has established himself as an authority of sorts on military aviation, in particular Russian military aviation. However, I have read the links provided by Dima and I just don't buy Venik's explanation about why NATO opposition would stay silent about the downing of a B-2 and 8 F-117's or as another poster has claimed, 3 B-2's. (Yes, I read the Russian language links too)

I simply do not believe there is sufficient evidence that NATO's opposition chose not to publicly declare that a B-2 was shot down for fear they would lose financial aid in rebuilding.

Venik is obviously an intelligent and articulate guy who presents his case at times convincingly, but the one sidedness of the web page on Kosovo is blatant. He remains vehemently against the side of NATO in his analysis & content (which is ok that he feels that way but when searching for truth I look for objectivity) - in fact there really is no objectivity there other than the presentation of data from both sides of the conflict.

ATS member Waynos definitely brings up a very good point in his initial post;
US domestic detractors of the B-2..."would have absolutely leapt upon the shooting down of a B-2 as representing the final coupe de grace in their argument against having it. Although the shooting down of a F-117 is seized upon within their arguments don't you think its odd that the destruction of any B-2, let alone three, is something that they would just let go?"

And of course the answer to his final question is a resounding NO, the domestic political opponents of the B-2 and other advanced military assets would have used the downing of a B-2 as their rallying point and battle cry to get rid of it. These political foes of the B-2 would have latched onto even rumors of a shootdown tenaciously and either tried to verify the reports or hold up the mere rumor to scrutinize the program. That's politics... but they did not report the incident at all... what gives?

I do have a question to Siberian Tiger, In your opinion what was the reason for the conflict in Kosovo if not the humanitarian crisis? I would like you honest opinion preferably without a rant...




[edit on 13-1-2005 by intelgurl]

Originally posted by Vivek

The last paragraph says that the "Stealth Bomber" was shot down. It's written a bit cleverly, so they avoid saying that the B-2 was shot down.

[smug] Which was precisely what I said earlier in the thread to Dima, who had the shutters firmly down.

[/smug]

TO DISMEMBER Serbia- Yugopslavia (what ever you want to call it) and turn it into a NATO state and move on to FINIALY take over Russia, this IS what I TRULY BELEIVE.

[edit on 13-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]

Siberian dont even start with genocides. During WW2 the Russians took 5,000 Polish Officers and soldiers, that had been moved to Rusia for some reasonm i dont remeber, and executed all f them in the woods.

Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear
Siberian dont even start with genocides. During WW2 the Russians took 5,000 Polish Officers and soldiers, that had been moved to Rusia for some reasonm i dont remeber, and executed all f them in the woods.

I don't know if this is true or not but these things do happen... Why? How could someone just kill someone defenseless? Just shoot them in the head? They have a family, a mother and father... Do these types of people have a heart?

IT'S FUNNY OUR DEAR CROAT FRIEND HERE SHOULD POST THAT ANTIWAR.COM site that site clearly prooves NATO lied about EVERTHING from 95 Bosnia til especially 99 Kosavo but don't worry Serbia will get all her land back after WORLD WAR 3

[edit on 13-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]

I hate you mother F*cker. I talked to my cousins about how they had to duck in the cars so that the snipers wouldnt get them. I talked with my cousin about he and his dad almost got shot. Ive seen the bullet holes. The serbs killed my cousin Ivan. He was the unlucky one. Bosnia is ours. Always has been and always will be. You know its funny how You had the 4th most powerful army in europe on your side and we still managed to kick your AS$ES. You dam gypsies. And what about all the mass graves that our still being found and the one that was just found in Serbia that was filled with Albanians. They actually moved the bodies to try and hide them.

[edit on 13-1-2005 by Croat56]

Oh that is bullsh!t. We never shot at Americans. WE dont need your f*cking permission to be independent. Dont seperate the muslims, they are us too. You never had Bosnia. It is ours. When world war 3 comes we're gonna take it back and when you come were gonna kick ur dam gypsie as$es. Moderaters please kick this guy out. He is spreading nothing but lies and this website is to DENY ignorance.

READ THE ARTICLE PAL Huge is basically addmitting they LIED so if the moderator is supposed to kick anybody off because of lies I ASSURE YOU, YOU WILL BE FIRST.

Oh please Ive seen these dumb serb websites. They dont have any truth in them. All you want is our beautful land and sea so you can get out of that sh!thole you call a homeland.

FredT your the moderater right? Sorry I had to curse there but man that guy. Please dont take away any of my points or anything. I wouldnt mind it either it you were to just take this whole thread off since its not about the B2 anymore anyway.

Originally posted by Croat56
I hate you . I talked to my cousins about how they had to duck in the cars so that the snipers wouldnt get them. I talked with my cousin about he and his dad almost got shot. Ive seen the bullet holes. The serbs killed my cousin Ivan. He was the unlucky one. Bosnia is ours. Always has been and always will be. You know its funny how You had the 4th most powerful army in europe on your side and we still managed to kick your AS$ES. You dam gypsies. And what about all the mass graves that our still being found and the one that was just found in Serbia that was filled with Albanians. They actually moved the bodies to try and hide them.

[edit on 13-1-2005 by Croat56]

I had to edit this so I would not be kicked out.

Thats just another stupid site filled with crap. Oh my God. Fine make you dumb thread

[edit on 14-1-2005 by Croat56]

Originally posted by SiberianTiger
The Serbs Authoraty doesn't target civilians unless they are directly physicaly helping or participating in the conflict, Croatia tried to illegaly break away from ...

[edit on 13-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]

Hi,
Dear tiger from siberia, I do not know on what is your agenda or what is it that you are trying to sell ppl here, but what you are saying is totally and utterly complete nonsense! A LOT of innocent people died in that war and a lot of them died in a way no man should die. The war isn't something I like to talk about and therefore I wont. I just want you to STOP lying and find something more constructive to do.