It is not the radical jihadists I fear. It is the Radical Right.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: SonOfThor

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: neo96

Truth shall always prevail over falsehood in the end.

Here is some TRUTH.

When entire groups get demonized it's perfectly acceptable EXCEPT when it comes to muslims.

By "TRUTH" do you mean the opposite? Or are you absurdly suggesting no one is demonizing Muslims right now?

Now take GUN OWNERS for example that have to ASK the state for permission to exercise their constitutional RIGHTS.

Sure...I will take the San Bernardino GUN OWNERS that killed 14 people for example...they purchased and used those weapons freely under the precise absence of scrutiny and regulations that you and the NRA continue to successfully demand.

Actually those gun owners were given two of the guns via an illegal straw purchase, which is I believe a felony. This also happened in a state with some of the strictest firearms regulations and laws on the books. What other laws would have prevented this?

Whether those laws are sufficiently enforced or if new laws would make a difference is not relevant to the argument.

Neo view is that those laws and regulations themselves should not exist and are tyrannical discrimination toward gun owners. Neo is welcome to correct me if I have misrepresented what he is saying, but he has been pretty consistent in his view that there should be no regulations or restrictions on gun purchasing and transfers.

You were proven wrong in your accusation that they bought the guns themselves, then just brush it aside like it doesn't matter, yet you used it as a point in your argument against gun owners. Are your points only valid when you use them?

There is nothing to fear but fear itself.

Christian Terrorism?

Please explain... in the last 10 years, how many mass shootings were conducted by Right-Wing (and not Psychotic-Wing) male Christian terrorists.

I'm not doing any research on this, it's you that will provide this convoluted "fact" with actual information.

Remember, this has to be Male Christian Terrorism, and not a psychotic, narcotic influenced act of insanity.

Go.

This thread is typical liberal trashing of conservatives who are actualy their freinds.Bunch of nonsense and shows how much division is in the U.S.

If you trust the radical muslim world over conservatives you have to be insane or plain ole stupid.Typical liberal crap.

originally posted by: DAVID64

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: SonOfThor

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: neo96

Truth shall always prevail over falsehood in the end.

Here is some TRUTH.

When entire groups get demonized it's perfectly acceptable EXCEPT when it comes to muslims.

By "TRUTH" do you mean the opposite? Or are you absurdly suggesting no one is demonizing Muslims right now?

Now take GUN OWNERS for example that have to ASK the state for permission to exercise their constitutional RIGHTS.

Sure...I will take the San Bernardino GUN OWNERS that killed 14 people for example...they purchased and used those weapons freely under the precise absence of scrutiny and regulations that you and the NRA continue to successfully demand.

Actually those gun owners were given two of the guns via an illegal straw purchase, which is I believe a felony. This also happened in a state with some of the strictest firearms regulations and laws on the books. What other laws would have prevented this?

Whether those laws are sufficiently enforced or if new laws would make a difference is not relevant to the argument.

Neo view is that those laws and regulations themselves should not exist and are tyrannical discrimination toward gun owners. Neo is welcome to correct me if I have misrepresented what he is saying, but he has been pretty consistent in his view that there should be no regulations or restrictions on gun purchasing and transfers.

You were proven wrong in your accusation that they bought the guns themselves, then just brush it aside like it doesn't matter, yet you used it as a point in your argument against gun owners. Are your points only valid when you use them?

I did not claim they bought the guns themselves??

I simply and clearly pointed out that they received the guns in the context of the lax regulations and enforcement that Neo and others regularly and very successfully petition for. Neo regularly and loudly advocates precisely for the rights of gun owners to be able to transfer their weapons to others without governments knowledge or scrutiny. He has even said the same in this thread.

this what I responded to ...as you well know..

Neo wrote

Now take GUN OWNERS for example that have to ASK the state for permission to exercise their constitutional RIGHTS.

The shooters in San Bernardino received their guns from their neighbor in an undocumented transfer...aka absent "State permission"..in Neo's view..the shooters were exercising their "constitutional RIGHTS" and he has defended their rights to receive and posses those guns without government scrutiny.

originally posted by: mindpurge
Christian Terrorism?

Please explain... in the last 10 years, how many mass shootings were conducted by Right-Wing (and not Psychotic-Wing) male Christian terrorists.

I'm not doing any research on this, it's you that will provide this convoluted "fact" with actual information.

Remember, this has to be Male Christian Terrorism, and not a psychotic, narcotic influenced act of insanity.

Go.

You seem to be wildly defining your terms?

Not Psychotic?...Is the assumption that the San Bernardino shooters and others were perfectly mentally healthy? I would argue that anyone enthusiastic about murdering innocent people who plots and follows through is by definition Psychotic whatever god they claim to follow.

Terrorism is not about religion, it is about political and ideological agenda....

The 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world (who have suffered many more attacks from Jihadists than the west) would not consider ISIS and other terrorists real Muslims or sane.

As it stands the death toll in the USA since 9-11 is 48 (right wing) to 45 (Jihadist)

Right Wing ideologically motivated attacks

2015 Colorado Planned Parenthood Shooting 3
2015 Charleston Church Shooting 9
2014 Las Vegas Police Ambush 3
2014 Kansas Jewish Center Shooting 3
2014 Blooming Grove Police Shooting 1
2012 Tri-State Killing Spree 4
2012 St. John's Parish Police Ambush 2
2012 Sikh Temple Shooting 6
2011 FEAR Militia 3
2010 Carlisle, PA Murder 1
2010 Austin, TX Plane Attack 1
2009 Pittsburgh Police Shootings 3
2009 Holocaust Museum Shooting 1
2009 George Tiller Assassination 1
2009 Flores Murders, Pima County, AZ 2
2009 Brockton, MA Murders 2
2008 Knoxville, TN Church Shooting 2
2004 Tulsa OK, Bank Robbery 1

securitydata.newamerica.net...

originally posted by: Jobeycool

If you trust the radical muslim world over conservatives you have to be insane or plain ole stupid.Typical liberal crap.

It is not a binary choice...I trust neither radical Muslims nor radical conservatives...And recently there seems to be little difference in their public advocacy of indiscriminate hate and bigotry.

a reply to: ElectricFeel

You want Trump to extend his death sentence to families of terrorist to white people, specifically white people, because you think they're terrorists on account of the mass shootings you see on the news? By that logic I'd hate to hear what you think of black people. I mean, you are ware that they commit acts of violence with guns at a substantially greater rate than any other ethnicity? Obviously skin color doesn't make someone bad, I'm just suggesting that you're a blowhard. Additionally, he said terrorists. You're the one ascribing a skin color to that, not him.
You're ridiculous statements, along with entire Islamic nations who have been all too happy to turn their eyes away from a culture of violence and oppression that has continued to spread globally and a domestic Muslim culture that did the same until just recently, when they generously took to twitter to make the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. "Oh, you say those with violence in their hearts aren't true Muslims? Maybe not, but even at 10-15% we're talking millions, so maybe take a little ownership for completely neglecting this issue? Maybe stop letting them use your mosques? Maybe report suspicious behavior?" The ineptitude is so incredibly suffocating one has to wonder if it's intentional.
You're the reason Trump exists, though. I don't particularly care for him, but when the willfully ignorant PC airbags begin dominating a culture one should know better than to not expect any reaction. It sound like you're angry at an entire people whose values differ from yours based on some public-relations monstrosity you created... and then you point the finger at him for making generalizations.

originally posted by: neveroddoreven99
a reply to: ElectricFeel

You want Trump to extend his death sentence to families of terrorist to white people, specifically white people, because you think they're terrorists on account of the mass shootings you see on the news? By that logic I'd hate to hear what you think of black people. I mean, you are ware that they commit acts of violence with guns at a substantially greater rate than any other ethnicity?.

You are conflating criminal gun violence..motivated by crime (Primarily competing for Drug markets and gang territory) with terrorism..targeting innocent civilians for ideological purposes.

Please let me know if you would like further explanation on the difference between crime and terrorism in the USA.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: mindpurge
Christian Terrorism?

Please explain... in the last 10 years, how many mass shootings were conducted by Right-Wing (and not Psychotic-Wing) male Christian terrorists.

I'm not doing any research on this, it's you that will provide this convoluted "fact" with actual information.

Remember, this has to be Male Christian Terrorism, and not a psychotic, narcotic influenced act of insanity.

Go.

You seem to be wildly defining your terms?

Not Psychotic?...Is the assumption that the San Bernardino shooters and others were perfectly mentally healthy? I would argue that anyone enthusiastic about murdering innocent people who plots and follows through is by definition Psychotic whatever god they claim to follow.

Terrorism is not about religion, it is about political and ideological agenda....

The 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world (who have suffered many more attacks from Jihadists than the west) would not consider ISIS and other terrorists real Muslims or sane.

As it stands the death toll in the USA since 9-11 is 48 (right wing) to 45 (Jihadist)

Right Wing ideologically motivated attacks

2015 Colorado Planned Parenthood Shooting 3
2015 Charleston Church Shooting 9
2014 Las Vegas Police Ambush 3
2014 Kansas Jewish Center Shooting 3
2014 Blooming Grove Police Shooting 1
2012 Tri-State Killing Spree 4
2012 St. John's Parish Police Ambush 2
2012 Sikh Temple Shooting 6
2011 FEAR Militia 3
2010 Carlisle, PA Murder 1
2010 Austin, TX Plane Attack 1
2009 Pittsburgh Police Shootings 3
2009 Holocaust Museum Shooting 1
2009 George Tiller Assassination 1
2009 Flores Murders, Pima County, AZ 2
2009 Brockton, MA Murders 2
2008 Knoxville, TN Church Shooting 2
2004 Tulsa OK, Bank Robbery 1

securitydata.newamerica.net...

If it is ideology we are talking about why limit the stats to the US only? The ideology doesn't stop at the border, and neither do the statistics.

Global terrorism index 2014
10,000 terror attacks in 2013
17,958 deaths. That's a 61% increase on 2012

14,722 deaths in just five countries: Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Nigeria
6,362 deaths in Iraq - the country worst-affected

60 countries around the world recorded deaths from terrorism
Source: Institute for Economics and Peace

The number of Right Wing ideologically motivated attacks in 2013? (per your source)

Zero.

link

If there are 1.5 billion muslims and the greater majority of them do not agree with the extremist views, why do they not stop the extremists from stoning women to death for being raped, or throwing gay men off roof tops? If the extremists are soooo out numbered it would seem like the moderates would find it easy to stop the senseless killing. But they don't.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Jobeycool

If you trust the radical muslim world over conservatives you have to be insane or plain ole stupid.Typical liberal crap.

It is not a binary choice...I trust neither radical Muslims nor radical conservatives...And recently there seems to be little difference in their public advocacy of indiscriminate hate and bigotry.

it is ok,us conservatives really do love you...Not gonna go crazy on you.relax...chill out.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: mindpurge
Christian Terrorism?

Please explain... in the last 10 years, how many mass shootings were conducted by Right-Wing (and not Psychotic-Wing) male Christian terrorists.

I'm not doing any research on this, it's you that will provide this convoluted "fact" with actual information.

Remember, this has to be Male Christian Terrorism, and not a psychotic, narcotic influenced act of insanity.

Go.

You seem to be wildly defining your terms?

Not Psychotic?...Is the assumption that the San Bernardino shooters and others were perfectly mentally healthy? I would argue that anyone enthusiastic about murdering innocent people who plots and follows through is by definition Psychotic whatever god they claim to follow.

Terrorism is not about religion, it is about political and ideological agenda....

The 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world (who have suffered many more attacks from Jihadists than the west) would not consider ISIS and other terrorists real Muslims or sane.

As it stands the death toll in the USA since 9-11 is 48 (right wing) to 45 (Jihadist)

Right Wing ideologically motivated attacks

2015 Colorado Planned Parenthood Shooting 3
2015 Charleston Church Shooting 9
2014 Las Vegas Police Ambush 3
2014 Kansas Jewish Center Shooting 3
2014 Blooming Grove Police Shooting 1
2012 Tri-State Killing Spree 4
2012 St. John's Parish Police Ambush 2
2012 Sikh Temple Shooting 6
2011 FEAR Militia 3
2010 Carlisle, PA Murder 1
2010 Austin, TX Plane Attack 1
2009 Pittsburgh Police Shootings 3
2009 Holocaust Museum Shooting 1
2009 George Tiller Assassination 1
2009 Flores Murders, Pima County, AZ 2
2009 Brockton, MA Murders 2
2008 Knoxville, TN Church Shooting 2
2004 Tulsa OK, Bank Robbery 1

securitydata.newamerica.net...

If it is ideology we are talking about why limit the stats to the US only? The ideology doesn't stop at the border, and neither do the statistics.

.

Because we are discussing US security and attacks..not the globe...can't help you much beyond simple logic.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: mindpurge
Christian Terrorism?

Please explain... in the last 10 years, how many mass shootings were conducted by Right-Wing (and not Psychotic-Wing) male Christian terrorists.

I'm not doing any research on this, it's you that will provide this convoluted "fact" with actual information.

Remember, this has to be Male Christian Terrorism, and not a psychotic, narcotic influenced act of insanity.

Go.

You seem to be wildly defining your terms?

Not Psychotic?...Is the assumption that the San Bernardino shooters and others were perfectly mentally healthy? I would argue that anyone enthusiastic about murdering innocent people who plots and follows through is by definition Psychotic whatever god they claim to follow.

Terrorism is not about religion, it is about political and ideological agenda....

The 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world (who have suffered many more attacks from Jihadists than the west) would not consider ISIS and other terrorists real Muslims or sane.

As it stands the death toll in the USA since 9-11 is 48 (right wing) to 45 (Jihadist)

Right Wing ideologically motivated attacks

2015 Colorado Planned Parenthood Shooting 3
2015 Charleston Church Shooting 9
2014 Las Vegas Police Ambush 3
2014 Kansas Jewish Center Shooting 3
2014 Blooming Grove Police Shooting 1
2012 Tri-State Killing Spree 4
2012 St. John's Parish Police Ambush 2
2012 Sikh Temple Shooting 6
2011 FEAR Militia 3
2010 Carlisle, PA Murder 1
2010 Austin, TX Plane Attack 1
2009 Pittsburgh Police Shootings 3
2009 Holocaust Museum Shooting 1
2009 George Tiller Assassination 1
2009 Flores Murders, Pima County, AZ 2
2009 Brockton, MA Murders 2
2008 Knoxville, TN Church Shooting 2
2004 Tulsa OK, Bank Robbery 1

securitydata.newamerica.net...

If it is ideology we are talking about why limit the stats to the US only? The ideology doesn't stop at the border, and neither do the statistics.

Global terrorism index 2014
10,000 terror attacks in 2013
17,958 deaths. That's a 61% increase on 2012

14,722 deaths in just five countries: Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Nigeria
6,362 deaths in Iraq - the country worst-affected

60 countries around the world recorded deaths from terrorism
Source: Institute for Economics and Peace

The number of Right Wing ideologically motivated attacks in 2013? (per your source)

Zero.

link

If there are 1.5 billion muslims and the greater majority of them do not agree with the extremist views, why do they not stop the extremists from stoning women to death for being raped, or throwing gay men off roof tops? If the extremists are soooo out numbered it would seem like the moderates would find it easy to stop the senseless killing. But they don't.

Cannot get the left wingers to understand this simple concept.It means muslims in reailty are also political dangerous and hateful.

originally posted by: Jobeycool

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Jobeycool

If you trust the radical muslim world over conservatives you have to be insane or plain ole stupid.Typical liberal crap.

It is not a binary choice...I trust neither radical Muslims nor radical conservatives...And recently there seems to be little difference in their public advocacy of indiscriminate hate and bigotry.

it is ok,us conservatives really do love you...Not gonna go crazy on you.relax...chill out.

I have a lot of admiration for conservatives...less so for the recent crop over the past decade...and I find the far-right increasingly vile and yes, the radical far right dangerous, in the context of American ideals and principles.

originally posted by: Jobeycool

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: mindpurge
Christian Terrorism?

Please explain... in the last 10 years, how many mass shootings were conducted by Right-Wing (and not Psychotic-Wing) male Christian terrorists.

I'm not doing any research on this, it's you that will provide this convoluted "fact" with actual information.

Remember, this has to be Male Christian Terrorism, and not a psychotic, narcotic influenced act of insanity.

Go.

You seem to be wildly defining your terms?

Not Psychotic?...Is the assumption that the San Bernardino shooters and others were perfectly mentally healthy? I would argue that anyone enthusiastic about murdering innocent people who plots and follows through is by definition Psychotic whatever god they claim to follow.

Terrorism is not about religion, it is about political and ideological agenda....

The 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world (who have suffered many more attacks from Jihadists than the west) would not consider ISIS and other terrorists real Muslims or sane.

As it stands the death toll in the USA since 9-11 is 48 (right wing) to 45 (Jihadist)

Right Wing ideologically motivated attacks

2015 Colorado Planned Parenthood Shooting 3
2015 Charleston Church Shooting 9
2014 Las Vegas Police Ambush 3
2014 Kansas Jewish Center Shooting 3
2014 Blooming Grove Police Shooting 1
2012 Tri-State Killing Spree 4
2012 St. John's Parish Police Ambush 2
2012 Sikh Temple Shooting 6
2011 FEAR Militia 3
2010 Carlisle, PA Murder 1
2010 Austin, TX Plane Attack 1
2009 Pittsburgh Police Shootings 3
2009 Holocaust Museum Shooting 1
2009 George Tiller Assassination 1
2009 Flores Murders, Pima County, AZ 2
2009 Brockton, MA Murders 2
2008 Knoxville, TN Church Shooting 2
2004 Tulsa OK, Bank Robbery 1

securitydata.newamerica.net...

If it is ideology we are talking about why limit the stats to the US only? The ideology doesn't stop at the border, and neither do the statistics.

Global terrorism index 2014
10,000 terror attacks in 2013
17,958 deaths. That's a 61% increase on 2012

14,722 deaths in just five countries: Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Nigeria
6,362 deaths in Iraq - the country worst-affected

60 countries around the world recorded deaths from terrorism
Source: Institute for Economics and Peace

The number of Right Wing ideologically motivated attacks in 2013? (per your source)

Zero.

link

If there are 1.5 billion muslims and the greater majority of them do not agree with the extremist views, why do they not stop the extremists from stoning women to death for being raped, or throwing gay men off roof tops? If the extremists are soooo out numbered it would seem like the moderates would find it easy to stop the senseless killing. But they don't.

Cannot get the left wingers to understand this simple concept.It means muslims in reailty are also political dangerous and hateful.

Yes..Thank goodness here in the USA the Christian Right are not involved in politics!

a reply to: LSU0408

I won't lie... I'd nuke the Middle Least...

Thanks for pointing out how many so called 'good people in the free western world' are just as extreme and fanatical as the terrorists they condemn.

Like an old poster from an old forum I used to post on used to say... Never go to war if you don't intend to win. Cruise over there with a few B-52's, drop a few nuclear bombs, roll out and call it a day. I'm sure it sounds cruel, but the longer we keep away from this action to protect their civilians, the longer we risk ours being killed by those hiding behind our weakness/kindness.

So protecting another countries citizens is by dropping nukes on them?

They started this, we need to finish it.

Sounds like something a tough guy might say, all brawn's and no brain kind of person.

However all it does is expose the immaturity, ignorance and sickness of ones mind when they suggest such actions as yourself or the old poster from an old forum.

originally posted by: ElectricFeel
When I visited Auschwitz a few years ago, our tour guide pointed to an open area and said, 'One of the rules of the camp was that any prisoner who escaped would have his family members brought here and executed, as a warning to the rest of the prisoners. That (pointing) was where they would carry out those executions.'

Yesterday, Trump and co., with the utmost callousness imaginable, defended the notion that terrorists' families should be 'dealt with' as a deterrent to terrorism.

I wonder, Mr. Trump, whether you would extend the same 'privilege' to mass-shooters, the vast majority of whom are white, Christian, males. The number of people who die from gun violence in this country is exponentially more (hundreds of thousands over the last decade) than the 45 or so who have died as a result of 'jihadist radicals' in the same amount of time. So, clearly, the far bigger threat facing America comes from other segments of society.

Would you also suggest as a deterrent that their wives and children 'be dealt with'? Or is it the case that you feel skin colors and religions redefine the norms of justice?

It is truly terrifying to see mainstream leaders and presidential candidates talk so brazenly, to the cheers and clapping of mobs who would willingly and enthusiastically support Nazi tactics because they have been brainwashed and terrorized by a modern breed of fascist demagogues.

It is not the radical jihadists I fear. It is the Radical Right.

The sad reality is that the current climate of Islamophobia is not even meant to directly target Muslims! In other words, it's not emanating from a religious hatred, much less an existential threat (less people die from 'radical jihadist attacks' in America than people who are killed by accidents with their furniture).

The fact of the matter is that this climate is being intentionally stoked for political gains. Certain members of the Republican party need to promote a false narrative: that the Democrats in general, and Obama in particular, is soft on the threat of 'radical Islam' in N. America. Therefore, they greatly exaggerate this threat, smear the Democrats for not doing enough, and then claim that *they* will be the knight in shining armor who shall save the damsel of liberty from the clutches of those evil Mozlem barbarians.

The American Muslim community, are merely a sacrificial pawn in a far more sinister game of political chess.
Unfortunately, because they have been chosen as the sacrificial pawn, many millions of Americans genuinely believe that rhetoric, and the hate crimes will indeed spiral until this election season is over.

This also explains Trump's antics perfectly: he needs to demonize the Muslim community, and then proclaim that *he* shall save America from this non-existent threat.

Truth shall always prevail over falsehood in the end. I just hope and pray that no lives are lost at the hands of the Far Right as the level of hate and paranoia continues to rise to ever-alarming levels.

Did he get into detail about how the families would be 'dealt with'? Or are you just filling that part in with your wild imagination?

"Dealing with" the terrorists families could also mean screening them for extremeism.

The United States is absolutely nothing like Germany during the Natzis and for you to even suggest that the atmosphere is even ripe for such conditions as for people to be treated like Jews in concentration camps is in insult to the intelligence and dignity of every U.S. citizen.

Your thoughts in this OP are extreme to say the least. So who is the extremist here?

Liberals continue to whine about christians and conservatives when most of the U.S. Army is conservatives.Liberals today cannot even love their own military they have become so far looney.
Anyone inside the Hollywood crowd or Washington D.C. career politicians will do the same thing.

Look how nasty Hollywood actors have become with their own country and military they are so spoiled and gone looney.

Conservatives get a lot of things right politically.
Attitudes towards muslums is not one of them. Many muslims are not radical. So they likely wont associate with radicals. Therefore less likely to hear about radical acts before they happen. How are they supposed to stop the crazy ones if crazies act in secret?

Conservatives should have no problem understanding this. Thats like saying, "Gun owners do nothing to stop mass shootings"
Crazies dont announce their intent to shoot up planned parenthood to all gun owners before they do it. Or wed stop em

a reply to: MayanBoricua

It certainly is interesting how a conservative will scream til he's red in the face not to lump all gun owners in with the few crazies that shoot up places, but then turn around and do that very same thing to Muslims.