Melting steel?

a reply to: Vector99
Have you ever used a fax machine? Quite often the original feeds...not quite straight.

The fax header is produced electronically by the machine. It is overlayed on the scan of the original.

a reply to: Phage

Daily.

I also know if i'm going to use a fax as evidence I will have the sender resend it if my machine botches.

a reply to: Vector99

The CIA didn't create Al Qeada.

They assisted the Muhajadeen against the Soviets.

It's well documented that once the Soviet threat was over the US left the Muhajadeen out to dry, cutting all funding and support.

a reply to: Vector99

Misaligned?

You've never used a fax machine before have you?

If it's a feed type, it can feed crooked, if it's a copy type, it can scan crooked.

The fact that it is misaligned proves that it's a fax and not some computer generated image..

a reply to: Vector99

I will have the sender resend it if my machine botches.

I don't. If I can read it, it's fine.

originally posted by: Chadwickus
a reply to: Vector99

The CIA didn't create Al Qeada.

They assisted the Muhajadeen against the Soviets.

It's well documented that once the Soviet threat was over the US left the Muhajadeen out to dry, cutting all funding and support.

They more than "assisted" them. Have you not seen the aftermath of the US arming someone they later intend not to arm in direct recent times?

As for the fax, the tell is in the details. Phage knows what I mean, though i don't think he will admit it.

(Hint - there are several things that should align, but don't)

a reply to: Vector99

You are aware the CIA CREATED Al-Qaeda to fight the Russians in Afghanistan right?

That is another fabrication. At no time did the CIA support al-Qaeda. It's another case where 9/11 conspiracy theorist confused the Afghan Mujahideen with the Afghan Arabs. The CIA supported the Afghan Mujahideen, not the Afghan Arabs, which was a group of foreigners that included Osama bin Laden.

The Myth of CIA Support For Afghan Arabs

Bergen, Sept. 6, 2006: The story about bin Laden and the CIA — that the CIA funded bin Laden or trained bin Laden — is simply a folk myth.

There’s no evidence of this. In fact, there are very few things that bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and the U.S. government agree on. They all agree that they didn’t have a relationship in the 1980s. And they wouldn’t have needed to. Bin Laden had his own money, he was anti-American and he was operating secretly and independently.

The U.S. covertly funded the Afghan fighters through Pakistan. So how does Bearden know the Pakistanis didn’t simply give some of the money to the Arabs, including bin Laden?

“They didn’t,” Bearden said. “We had ways to check where the money was going.” Milton Bearden, CIA station chief in Pakistan from 1986 to 1989, where he was responsible for the agency’s covert program in support of the Afghan resistance.

www.cnn.com...


Afghan Arabs

Afghan Arabs (also known as Arab-Afghans) were Arab and other Muslim Islamist mujahideen who came to Afghanistan during and following the Soviet-Afghan War to help fellow Muslims fight Soviets and pro-Soviet Afghans. Observers and journalists covering the war have cast doubt on their significance as a fighting force, but within the Muslim Arab world they achieved near hero-status for their association with the defeat of the militant atheist, anti-religious Communist superpower that was the Soviet Union.

Osama bin Laden used the thousands of fighters he recruited in 1988 to fight against the Soviet troops in Afghanistan. After the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan bin Laden expanded his "jihad" or holy war. The goals of al-Qaida's jihad are to establish the rule of God on Earth, to cleanse Islam of depravity and to become martyrs to the cause. In 1998 al Qaida issued a statement claiming it was the duty of all Muslims to kill U.S. citizens including civilians.

www.webcitation.org... -03


Afghan Mujahideen

The Islamic Unity of Afghanistan Mujahideen (also known as the Seven Party Mujahideen Alliance or Peshawar Seven) was an Afghan organization formed in May 1985 by the seven Afghanmujahideen parties fighting against the Soviet and Democratic Republic of Afghanistan forces in the Soviet-Afghan War. The alliance sought to function as a united diplomatic front towards the world opinion, and sought representation in the United Nations and Organisation of the Islamic Conference

A CIA pipeline was established rapidly after the Soviet invasion, and approximately $75 million annually has been provided for a variety of weapons, ammunition, communications equipment, and medical supplies (to the Afghan Mujahideen, not the Afghan Arabs). These provisions are slipped into Afghanistan somewhat surreptitiously by truck or animal caravan, with caution taken not to involve the Pakistan government officially in this traffic.

www.airpower.au.af.mil...


The Myth the CIA Supported Osama bin Laden II

Scholars and reporters have called the idea of CIA-backed Afghan Arabs (foreign mujahideen) "nonsense", "sheer fantasy", and "simply a folk myth."
They argue that:

* With a quarter of a million local Afghans willing to fight there was no need to recruit foreigners unfamiliar with the local language, customs or lay of the land

* With several hundred million dollars a year in funding from non-American, Muslim sources, Arab Afghans themselves would have no need for American funds

* Americans could not train mujahideen because Pakistani officials would not allow more than a handful of U.S. agents to operate in Pakistan and none in Afghanistan;

* The Afghan Arabs were militant Islamists, reflexively hostile to Westerners, and prone to threaten or attack Westerners even though they knew the Westerners were helping the mujahideen. Al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri says much the same thing in his book Knights Under the Prophet's Banner.

Bin Laden himself once said "the collapse of the Soviet Union ... goes to God and the mujahideen in Afghanistan ... the US had no mentionable role," but "collapse made the US more haughty and arrogant."


Sources;

Roy, Olivier, Globalized Islam : the Search for a New Ummah, by Olivier Roy, Columbia University Press, 2004, p.291-2

Sageman, Marc, Understanding Terror Networks by Marc Sageman, University of Pennsylvania Press, 2004, p.57-8

Messages to the World, 2006, p.50. (March 1997 interview with Peter Arnett

Peter Jouvenal quoted in Bergen, Peter, Holy War Inc. New York: Free Press, c2001., p.65

Confusing the Afghan Mujahideen with the Afghan Arabs is how 9/11 conspiracy theorist concocted another unfounded conspiracy theory.

Or were you too busy thinking a 767, not a 757 according to all reports, crashed into the pentagon.

The aircraft wreckage was not from a B-767. Where did you get that false story from? I have identified B-757 wreckage inside and outside the Pentagon and have made that fact known for years.

a reply to: Vector99

They more than "assisted" them. Have you not seen the aftermath of the US arming someone they later intend not to arm in direct recent times?

Once again, the CIA supported the Afghan Mujahideen, not the Afghan Arabs. The Afghan Arabs were a group of foreigners that Osama bin Laden belonged to and a group that was hostile toward the United States and once again, not supported by the CIA.

originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: Vector99



The aircraft wreckage was not from a B-767. Where did you get that false story from? I have identified B-757 wreckage inside and outside the Pentagon and have made that fact known for years.

I'll just quote you.

originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: Vector99

Guess which building had a concrete facade vs. aluminum panels. Guess which building was struck by a B-767 at over 500 mph with thousands of pounds more fuel than the smaller, lighter, and slower B-25.

originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: Vector99

With enough thickness protection applied to the can, the bullet will simply knock the can around. However, take that same can and shoot it at a steel frame building at the cruising velocity of a B-767

Selective quoting didn't change your word at all.

originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: Vector99

They more than "assisted" them. Have you not seen the aftermath of the US arming someone they later intend not to arm in direct recent times?

Once again, the CIA supported the Afghan Mujahideen, not the Afghan Arabs. The Afghan Arabs was a group of foreigners that Osama bin Laden belonged to and a group of foreigners that was hostile toward the United States and was no supported by the CIA.

And nowadays we only support the "moderate rebels" in Syria. you actually believe that crap?

a reply to: Vector99

Well, it was incorrect.

Selective quoting didn't change your word at all.

My experience with kevlar, fiberglass and aerospace metals points out the fallacy in your argument.

I'll just quote you.

You are confused because I was referring to the WTC Towers, not the Pentagon. On the other note, the CIA has been taking out members of al-Qaeda with drone strikes, not supporting them.

.

a reply to: skyeagle409

My experience with pilots tells me they don't make that mistake, especially not twice.

a reply to: Vector99

Apparently, the pilots of that B-25 made a serious mistake, which is why their aircraft crashed into the Empire State Building.

a reply to: Vector99

My experience with pilots tells me they don't make that mistake, especially not twice.

Clarify what you meant by that.

originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: Vector99

My experience with pilots tells me they don't make that mistake, especially not twice.

Clarify what you meant by that.

you said 767 twice. Pilots don't do that.

a reply to: skyeagle409

Guess which building had a concrete facade vs. aluminum panels.

Really sky, aluminum ?

a reply to: wildb

The buildings were Cladded in aluminium.

originally posted by: Chadwickus
a reply to: wildb

The buildings were Cladded in aluminium.

I know that, but I take exception to the way that was stated..

a reply to: wildb

Really sky, aluminum ?

Yes.

Aluminum and the World Trade Center Disaster

Aluminum was present in two significant forms at the World Trade Center on 9-11: (i) By far the largest source of aluminum at the WTC was the exterior cladding on WTC 1 & 2. In quantitative terms it may be estimated that 2,000,000 kg of anodized 0.09 aluminum sheet was used, in the form of 43,600 panels, to cover the faÄade of each Twin Tower.

(i) The other major source of aluminum at the WTC was the aluminum alloy airframes of the Boeing 767 aircraft that crashed into the Twin Towers on the morning of 9-11. It may be estimated that, on impact, these aircraft weighed about 124,000 kg including fuel; of this weight, 46,000 kg comprised the fuselage and 21,000 kg made up the mass of the wings – all of which were fabricated from aluminum alloys. Modern airframes are invariably constructed from series 2000 aluminum alloys. Alloy 2024 is a typical example containing93 % Al, 4.5 % Cu, 1.5 % Mg, and 0.5 % each of Mn and Fe. These metallic additions to aluminum lower the melting point of the alloy from a value of660 C, for pure aluminum, to about 548  C for alloy 2024. This relatively low temperature indicates that the fires within the Twin Towers were quite capable of melting at least some of the Boeing 767 aluminum airframestructures remaining in the WTC before its collapse.

www.911myths.com...