Man rapes grand-daughter, mom kills her

a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

Who is asking "Which is worse?"

Killing for money is as equally as abhorrent as killing for 'honour".
Start a thread about how horrible it is when people kill folk for money, I would contribute my thoughts.
This thread is about barbarous folk who kill for 'honour' though.
It is shocking to me, that's why I started the thread, I was shocked.

originally posted by: grainofsand
Link>> Emirates247.com

I generally do not click on horrible stories but stumbled upon this and just the barbarity in the 21st century truly shocked me.

An Egyptian man pulled his two-year-old granddaughter from her mother’s arms while she was asleep and raped her, prompting the mother to kill her daughter to avert a scandal, newspapers in the Arab country reported on Thursday.

The 59-year-old grandfather, identified as Faraj, waited for his daughter Merfat, 23, to go to bed before pulling her daughter out of bed and raping her in his room at their house in the East-central town of Sohag.

Newspapers said the mother, after discovering what happened, drowned her daughter in a water bucket to avert a scandal in the conservative countryside town.

So she killed her poor victim daughter to avert a scandal! I mean WTF?! Is the scandal of your dad raping your daughter so culturally important that it overrides the sanctity of life in 'conservative' parts of Egypt.

To me this indicates a deeply ingrained dark cultural stain in that country, so I did a bit of reading and it would seem that women being killed for 'honor' and other such face saving reasons is not so uncommon there.

The UN are well aware of it and this Report - sorry pdf format details the limited information they have, but I wouldn't want to be a woman in 'conservative' parts of Egypt:

Information collected showed also that means used in honour killing ranged from strangling, burning, forcing the woman to take poison, or throwing her from the window. Killing the girl is not only for establishing pre-marital relationships but also for marrying someone the family does not approve. In honour crimes committed by the brother, it was found that in many cases the murderer admits quickly the crime to the police because he feels proud of his act and believes that his tribe or community should know and value what he has done. Mothers sometimes commit honour crimes

Can you imagine, actually proud to admit it to the tribal 'justice' system? And it gets worse:

Article 17 of the Egyptian Penal code allows judges to decrease the sentences given in
the case of murder when they decide that the condition of the murderer requires so. Such reductions reach as little as six months that could also be spent during the trial. Therefore the murderer can escape being imprisoned and walks free.

It then got me thinking about the situation with honour killings in the UK and I found this tragic report from Emily Dyer, a Research Fellow at The Henry Jackson Society. She specialises in women’s rights, as well as Islamism and terrorism. She authored Marginalising Egyptian Women, having spent time in Cairo interviewing leading members of the Muslim Brotherhood and Egypt’s women’s rights movement.

Link >> again pdf format sorry

Most reported UK ‘honour’ killings and attempted killings have been carried out against people of South Asian origin, the majority
of whom have Pakistani ethnic origin. This finding is largely reflected in the calls received in 2013 by the charity Karma Nirvana’s
helpline for victims of forced marriage and HBV. Where the caller’s ethnicities were known, the group received the following: British Pakistani (821 calls) and Pakistani (509 calls), followed by British Indian (462 calls), and Indian (216 calls). These were then followed by British Bangladeshis (210 calls), Arabic (67 calls), and White British (41 calls)

Now when you consider that the UK ethnic demographics break down as follows: white 87.2%, black/African/Caribbean/black British 3%, Asian/Asian British: Indian 2.3%, Asian/Asian British: Pakistani 1.9%, mixed 2%, other 3.7% one has to ask the question why is this barbaric practice carried out in such a disproportionately high percentage of these small ethnic populations?

Now before people start bleating "Racism!" or "Not all ethnic minority people do this!" etc, I AM NOT MAKING THE ASSERTION THAT THEY DO, just that such horrific practices are shockingly more common in non-white-British ethnic groups, and there is clearly a cultural problem which needs addressing somewhere.

Backwards and barbarous practices have no place in the 21st century, and I hope people who carry out such activities are prevented from entering the UK and bringing their disgusting cultural 'norms' with them.

This is what CULTURE gets you. What is more powerful here, common sense or some f$cked up, made up rules to keep you in line? I guess culture wins? Think about it!

a reply to: HUMBLEONE


this is a horrible story....we have had honor killing here in the usa....here was a father who killed his 2 daughters because thney were too westernized...it is barbaric...I can't even rap my brain aroun d this way of thinking...yes I hope they move your thread to the right forum.

Backwards and barbaric practice that needs to be stamped out. I saw an article a while back where some religious leaders in Pakistan issued a fatwa against it but I couldn't find it again.

It's not killing admittedly but it wasn't that long ago that catholic women and girls who were sexually abused or got pregnant were locked away and used as slaves, the last place closed in Ireland in 1996 but they existed in most western nations including England, Australia and America.

www.newstatesman.com...

a reply to: grainofsand

Honour?

Honour comes from truth, from loyalty, from the respect earned from, and given to others. It is not a commodity to be protected by lies and murder, but a jewel defended by decorous conduct, by valiant and noble acts, by gallant treatment of those weaker than ourselves. There is no honour in this story, no valour, no courage or strength.

Honour demands that the weak be defended from the excesses of the mighty, that those who seek dominion and power over others, be confronted for their stupidities, ignorance, and wilful doing of evil. Honour demands that when a man takes liberties with woman or child, when an adult abuses their power over their offspring or young relations, that they are confronted and dealt with. Anything else is not honour, but weakness. The preference of betraying ones own child by murder, over experiencing scandal is the mark of one who has no honour, no strength of heart, mind, or soul.

It is weakness, and dishonourable in the extreme to mistreat a victim, so that a perpetrator might carry on without consequence after a misdeed.

Appalling but nothing new in that part of the world. Woman have no rights and are treated horribly. Live stock is treated better. Sadly in the long run that mother did her daughter a favor. She would have had a lifetime of rape, being married/traded off young and probably killed because she wouldn't have been a virgin on her wedding night.

these assbackwards cave dwellers will probably praise the womans actions and her pedo husband will just find someone else to rape. this is the worst thing ive read in my life. god will be her judge.

originally posted by: intrptr

Crazy people everywhere, folks. This isn't more Muslim hating is it?

Cue the Islamaphobes…

I didn't see the word muslim in anyone's post except yours. Did you bother reading the thread ?

originally posted by: Okeyd57

originally posted by: intrptr

Crazy people everywhere, folks. This isn't more Muslim hating is it?

Cue the Islamaphobes…

I didn't see the word muslim in anyone's post except yours. Did you bother reading the thread ?

Ah don't worry, the guy seems obsessed with looking for hatred for regular Muslims where none exists.
If you read more of the thread you will even see a post where the member linked Western bombing in the middle East to the OP which has nothing to do with it.

Desperately lame arguing and reasoning skills if anyone is trying to assert hatred for average Muslims in this OP, in my opinion.

originally posted by: Okeyd57

originally posted by: intrptr

Crazy people everywhere, folks. This isn't more Muslim hating is it?

Cue the Islamaphobes…

I didn't see the word muslim in anyone's post except yours. Did you bother reading the thread ?

No, just focusing on predominantly Muslim Me country for a child rape case and murder, referenced as Honor killings, that have been vetted here as though child rape and murder doesn't occur everywhere on the planet.

I don't see people making threads about child rape and murder occurring in Bali, or Alaska… people would be like yah, so what. But the Middle East, we can get behind that.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Okeyd57

originally posted by: intrptr

Crazy people everywhere, folks. This isn't more Muslim hating is it?

Cue the Islamaphobes…

I didn't see the word muslim in anyone's post except yours. Did you bother reading the thread ?

No, just focusing on predominantly Muslim Me country for a child rape case and murder, referenced as Honor killings, that have been vetted here as though child rape and murder doesn't occur everywhere on the planet.

I don't see people making threads about child rape and murder occurring in Bali, or Alaska… people would be like yah, so what. But the Middle East, we can get behind that.

Did you ignore or miss my post referencing the intergovernmental Council of Europe which states that honour killings in the EU are the overwhelming domain of certain ethnic groups?

You are being dishonest if you argue against that and fail to support your bleating with sources.
All my sources in this thread have been either governmental or academic, why should I, or anyone else, choose to believe your opinion as a better source?

a reply to: intrptr

Post'em.

Not like they will receive any sympathy or less hatred.

I guess the real question is why haven't you already posted them.

Oh yeah, that's not your gimmick.

a reply to: Lysergic

Oh yeah, that's not your gimmick.

Yah, I'm not "gimmicked" by the war on terror, or hating on Islam.

Even if its disguised hate… like this thread.

a reply to: intrptr

Rape is rape.

Hard to justify killing your own child regardless what mythical being or lack of one you believe in.

Humans will be humans.

Feel free to post those threads, I'll be one of the first in there to speak ill of them just like I have here.

originally posted by: intrptr

Even if its disguised hate… like this thread.

"Disguised hate" Hahaha!
You are unable to quote any lines of hate from the OP so now the claim is it's disguised?!
Behave with your silly trolling.

Can someone tell me why the hell this is in the celebrity section?

Is it some sick joke?

a reply to: grainofsand


Whilst reading your op and thread I was rather perturbed as to where was the

father of the child? Surely he was there to protect the child and its mother?


Then I went on to think... in the male dominant culture where females have

no more status than that of a possession, or an animal ..... was the father of

the mother also the father of the child? (his own grandchild?)

Not to far from the realms of reality in a male dominated culture?



So bottom line is two females sacrificed in the name of the *honour* of a man.

originally posted by: crazyewok
Can someone tell me why the hell this is in the celebrity section?

Is it some sick joke?

Ask ATS, they moved it, I posted it in social Issues.

originally posted by: grainofsand
Link>> Emirates247.com

I generally do not click on horrible stories but stumbled upon this and just the barbarity in the 21st century truly shocked me.

An Egyptian man pulled his two-year-old granddaughter from her mother’s arms while she was asleep and raped her, prompting the mother to kill her daughter to avert a scandal, newspapers in the Arab country reported on Thursday.

The 59-year-old grandfather, identified as Faraj, waited for his daughter Merfat, 23, to go to bed before pulling her daughter out of bed and raping her in his room at their house in the East-central town of Sohag.

Newspapers said the mother, after discovering what happened, drowned her daughter in a water bucket to avert a scandal in the conservative countryside town.

So she killed her poor victim daughter to avert a scandal! I mean WTF?! Is the scandal of your dad raping your daughter so culturally important that it overrides the sanctity of life in 'conservative' parts of Egypt.

Yeah it would seem that more and more these kinds of cultures are built by men for men and for the hatred of women. As just the other day reading about a muslim women who was married to her muslim husband had to explain to him that she had not ''religiously'' moved on from her last marriage, she had to do something quite insane. Which was, divorce her husband now, marry another man, sleep with that man, wait a month, then marry her new husband again.

So lets be honest, these eastern ways are absolutely insane and this story is sickening.

a reply to: grainofsand

I do see a huge difference between the public perception of murder for money which our culture punishes severely (I hope) when they can catch the individual etc to the perception of honour killing which has been pussy-footed around to appease the different culture - and here cultural difference is being used as an excuse to try to balk our laws or explain the motivation.

I can stand back and understand the mother's motive because of the stain on her girl as she has lost her virginity etc . What I cannot fathom is that she didn't go for the perpetrator. Although again, if he is protected as the head of the family and financial provider she has no redress. How does she look that man in the eye without sheer hatred and disgust in her heart and importantly to whom could she have gone or have changed her daughter's circumstances both mental and physical? The truth is though that due to her culture women and children are of little value and morals certainly don't stand in the way of a man and his sexual appetites. Fortunately many people from cultures that condone this, don't adhere to this any more and most fathers and family members would be appalled.

Something people have to face is that Christianity doesn't have the religious little laws and ideas that people from Judaism and Islam are brought up with. The cultural difference 'us' and them is absolutely huge and we are ignorant and naive because how many of us have read through the Hadiths and Talmud etc and absorbed what they allow their male followers to get up to - mostly none, and it will be a huge cultural shock to realise the difference for most Western people - who are not paedophiles.

Neither religion has been updated and both need considerable change, one gets the full attention of the press whilst the other appears to be protected from it.