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Satanists Do Not Beleive In the Devil

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posted on Dec, 15 2015 @ 08:18 AM
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a reply to: uncommitted

No, it isn't, because you use the religious term of Satan does not mean everyone else does. For none-deistic Satanists Satan is not real. It has been explained a few times in this thread. You cannot believe in the Biblical Satan and be atheist, true, but you can be a Satanist of one of the many types that are not religion but more philosophy, and atheist.

Opinion does not equate fact.




posted on Dec, 15 2015 @ 08:33 AM
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originally posted by: Learningman
a reply to: uncommitted

No, it isn't, because you use the religious term of Satan does not mean everyone else does. For none-deistic Satanists Satan is not real. It has been explained a few times in this thread. You cannot believe in the Biblical Satan and be atheist, true, but you can be a Satanist of one of the many types that are not religion but more philosophy, and atheist.

Opinion does not equate fact.


Right, so you are missing something. The term Satanist actually has a definition. Using it in a none deistic manner to make it all oooh, so hip doesn't actually make it fact, it's someone applying a label because they think it's call. Being as Satan is totally related to religion, separating it from its actual source is frankly boringly boring.

Opinion equates opinion, mine or yours, neither are fact.



posted on Dec, 15 2015 @ 08:52 AM
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a reply to: uncommitted

So the people who claim None-Deistic Satanism are liars? Deluded, I could understand, but lying, no.

I hate to assume but I don't believe you know anything about none-deistic Satanists first hand. They exist, and claiming they cannot do so because of semantics will not change that.

Lets assume it is someone applying a label to themselves because they think its cool. Does that automatically mean they are no longer atheist?

There are more people who claim to be Satanist who do not believe in the devil, than those that do. Boring? Maybe.

If it helps, you could see it as co-opting it from religion to make a statement. Whether you agree with the statement or not is not important.



posted on Dec, 15 2015 @ 08:53 AM
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originally posted by: Foderalover
I always laughed when I hear religious people screaming "religious freedom", the same people that reject other religions especially if they want to also display their religious art in public. That is what Satanism is about. The Connie Chung report on a Satanism group last night was very interesting. They don't sacrifice, drink blood or worship the devil. LOL "the devil" that's so funny to me. They are basically using this to challenge the freedom of religion and government sponsor of religion. They also fundraise as well as document and expose how religion in government can misguide pregnant women relating to their abortion options through gov funded clinics as one example. I am not sure why they use satanic art and idols to prove their point , I guess they cant find anything else to make such a statement. The followers were mainly ecumenical and see a different version of Satan than most main stream religious people do. They didn't seem to believe in hell and demons but the idolatry and symbolism of satan. I think that most people have a different version of Satan or the origins of that myth, people educated in religious history usually have a very different opinion as I do as well. I am sure there are real groups that sacrifice and all that but I think that may be for show. Personally I would use an alien or a Sumerian tablet character and make my own religion, something like ancient astronauts but not called that. Satan would be just too generic for me and people could never get past the "devil worship" aspect to actually get the point of why they exist..


Isn't it funny that Satanist don't believe in Satan but call themselves Satanist? That is the same as if I said I don't believe in Jesus Christ but I am a Christian.

Doesn't make any sense does it?

If the majority of Satanist don't believe in Satan, then why not start a new religion/faith and call it by name in what they do believe.

IMO whoever calls themselves Satanist follow him otherwise why be associated with his name? No matter how you explain it you are tied to a name that is known worldwide.....



posted on Dec, 15 2015 @ 08:57 AM
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a reply to: DeathSlayer
They do it to get Christians riled up.

It is obviously working.



posted on Dec, 15 2015 @ 08:58 AM
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originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Learningman
a reply to: uncommitted

No, it isn't, because you use the religious term of Satan does not mean everyone else does. For none-deistic Satanists Satan is not real. It has been explained a few times in this thread. You cannot believe in the Biblical Satan and be atheist, true, but you can be a Satanist of one of the many types that are not religion but more philosophy, and atheist.

Opinion does not equate fact.


Right, so you are missing something. The term Satanist actually has a definition. Using it in a none deistic manner to make it all oooh, so hip doesn't actually make it fact, it's someone applying a label because they think it's call. Being as Satan is totally related to religion, separating it from its actual source is frankly boringly boring.

Opinion equates opinion, mine or yours, neither are fact.


Kind of like hijacking the winter solstice celebrations to honor a man who may or may not have existed.
edit on 15-12-2015 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2015 @ 09:02 AM
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a reply to: DeathSlayer

It makes sense when you realise a large amount do it for a sense of rebellion, as Satan is the most famous rebel character in literature. Also to the majority it is not a religion so they see no need to make a new one.

Some claim to be Satanist as defiance of organised religion and the title Satanist gets them exposure and. And it works much better than the title 'Humanist', when a lot of 'Satanists' are just 'Humanists'.

Call it a d!(x move, but forcing their ideas to the extent religious freedom allows is for some of them their main agenda. Like exposing religious leaders who ask for religious freedoms when they then make statements about not allowing Satanism.

Its not super mature, but it is what it is.



posted on Dec, 15 2015 @ 09:03 AM
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a reply to: DeathSlayer

It's an irony thing. Some people decided to be better Christians than actual Christians while giving credit to evil incarnate just to be cute. I guess the point is, god and good are not synonymous. You can have a different opinion and still be an okay person.



posted on Dec, 15 2015 @ 09:11 AM
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originally posted by: Learningman
a reply to: uncommitted

So the people who claim None-Deistic Satanism are liars? Deluded, I could understand, but lying, no.

I hate to assume but I don't believe you know anything about none-deistic Satanists first hand. They exist, and claiming they cannot do so because of semantics will not change that.

Lets assume it is someone applying a label to themselves because they think its cool. Does that automatically mean they are no longer atheist?

There are more people who claim to be Satanist who do not believe in the devil, than those that do. Boring? Maybe.

If it helps, you could see it as co-opting it from religion to make a statement. Whether you agree with the statement or not is not important.



I'm not calling anyone a liar, merely claiming that using the word Satanist in a way separated from its religious connotations is oxymoronic, if you say you don't believe in a deity but label yourself as a Satanist then you are saying you follow Satan, not God, which implies you are not an atheist as you cannot believe in one but not the other.

Sorry if that is a boring response, but if people want to make up labels, it would be really nice if they actually made sense rather than thinking such a naming convention made them sound in some way cool. Hey, maybe it's just me being an atheist Christian.



posted on Dec, 15 2015 @ 09:21 AM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Learningman
a reply to: uncommitted

No, it isn't, because you use the religious term of Satan does not mean everyone else does. For none-deistic Satanists Satan is not real. It has been explained a few times in this thread. You cannot believe in the Biblical Satan and be atheist, true, but you can be a Satanist of one of the many types that are not religion but more philosophy, and atheist.

Opinion does not equate fact.


Right, so you are missing something. The term Satanist actually has a definition. Using it in a none deistic manner to make it all oooh, so hip doesn't actually make it fact, it's someone applying a label because they think it's call. Being as Satan is totally related to religion, separating it from its actual source is frankly boringly boring.

Opinion equates opinion, mine or yours, neither are fact.


Kind of like hijacking the winter solstice celebrations to honor a man who may or may not have existed.


Kind of, but only if Satanists believe in Satan, otherwise the analogy falls apart somewhat, doesn't it? Actually, seeing as winter solstice is in itself nothing more than an aspect from a different religion, the analogy kind of crumples a little.



posted on Dec, 15 2015 @ 09:26 AM
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a reply to: uncommitted

You missed the part about co-opting or basically stealing the figure of Satan for themselves. That they are a silly bunch is much more reasonable than thinking they serve Him, as you stated was your opinion earlier.



posted on Dec, 15 2015 @ 09:30 AM
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originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Learningman
a reply to: uncommitted

No, it isn't, because you use the religious term of Satan does not mean everyone else does. For none-deistic Satanists Satan is not real. It has been explained a few times in this thread. You cannot believe in the Biblical Satan and be atheist, true, but you can be a Satanist of one of the many types that are not religion but more philosophy, and atheist.

Opinion does not equate fact.


Right, so you are missing something. The term Satanist actually has a definition. Using it in a none deistic manner to make it all oooh, so hip doesn't actually make it fact, it's someone applying a label because they think it's call. Being as Satan is totally related to religion, separating it from its actual source is frankly boringly boring.

Opinion equates opinion, mine or yours, neither are fact.


Kind of like hijacking the winter solstice celebrations to honor a man who may or may not have existed.


Kind of, but only if Satanists believe in Satan, otherwise the analogy falls apart somewhat, doesn't it? Actually, seeing as winter solstice is in itself nothing more than an aspect from a different religion, the analogy kind of crumples a little.


I was commenting on the redefining of satanism. Much like the redefining of yuletide.



posted on Dec, 15 2015 @ 09:33 AM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Learningman
a reply to: uncommitted

No, it isn't, because you use the religious term of Satan does not mean everyone else does. For none-deistic Satanists Satan is not real. It has been explained a few times in this thread. You cannot believe in the Biblical Satan and be atheist, true, but you can be a Satanist of one of the many types that are not religion but more philosophy, and atheist.

Opinion does not equate fact.


Right, so you are missing something. The term Satanist actually has a definition. Using it in a none deistic manner to make it all oooh, so hip doesn't actually make it fact, it's someone applying a label because they think it's call. Being as Satan is totally related to religion, separating it from its actual source is frankly boringly boring.

Opinion equates opinion, mine or yours, neither are fact.


Kind of like hijacking the winter solstice celebrations to honor a man who may or may not have existed.


Kind of, but only if Satanists believe in Satan, otherwise the analogy falls apart somewhat, doesn't it? Actually, seeing as winter solstice is in itself nothing more than an aspect from a different religion, the analogy kind of crumples a little.


I was commenting on the redefining of satanism. Much like the redefining of yuletide.


Yeah, but but at least Christians believe in Christ, otherwise they wouldn't call themselves Christian, that's what I meant around the analogy (within the confines of this thread) being a little loose.



posted on Dec, 15 2015 @ 09:34 AM
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originally posted by: uncommitted


Right, so you are missing something. The term Satanist actually has a definition. Using it in a none deistic manner to make it all oooh, so hip doesn't actually make it fact, it's someone applying a label because they think it's call. Being as Satan is totally related to religion, separating it from its actual source is frankly boringly boring.


Since there aren't many people on ATS who will admit to being a LaVeyan Satanist, let me try to dispel some of the B.S. People believe about us.

There are different varieties of Satanism, those who think they worship the Christian devil are theistic Satanists. Then there are people like me, LaVeyan Satanists, which is an agnostic/atheistic philosophy and not a true religion. Though some would argue that is To us, Satan is a metaphor, an archetype. It represents pride, carnality, liberty, enlightenment, wisdom... You get the idea. We view "Satan" as a symbol of defiance towards the mainstream conservatism espoused by the Abrahamic faiths in particular as they view Satan as their antithesis.

Personally, I appreciate the philosophy far more than I do the way in which Christianity is interpreted in America. Let's look at the 'Nine Satanic Statements' and the 'Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth' to see what ideals we actually espouse-

The 9 Satanic Statements
1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence.
2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams.
3. Satan represents undefined wisdom instead of hypocritical self deceit.
4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates.
5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek.
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires.
7. Satan represents man as just another animal who because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development" has become the most vicious animal of all.
8. Satan represents all of the so called sins as they lead to physical, mental and emotional gratification.
9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had as he has kept them in business all these years.

11 Satanic Rules of the Earth-
1. Do not give opinions or advice unless asked.
2. Don't tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another's lair, show them respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take what does not belong to you unless it is a burden to that person and they cry out for you to take it from them.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have used it to successfully obtain your desires. If you deny the power of that magic the you he will lose all you ave gained.
8. Don't complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm children.
10. Don't kill non human animals unless you are attacked or it is for food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they don't, then destroy them.

The Nine Satanic Sins
Stupidity
Pretentiousness
Solipsism
Self-Deceit
Herd conformity
Lack of Perspective
Forgetfulness of past orthodoxies
Counterproductive pride
Lack of Aesthetics

The most important day of the year and biggest holiday is ones birthday because we each create our own power and we revel in ourselves.

There are no orgies.

There is no ritual or blood sacrifice.

Children are prohibited from church practices. They are to make their own choices when old enough.

While LaVeyan Satanism is, in and of itself, an antithesis to Christianity, there aren't any theistic qualities to it as it is a philosophical context as opposed to a theological one.



posted on Dec, 15 2015 @ 09:40 AM
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originally posted by: uncommitted
Yeah, but but at least Christians believe in Christ, otherwise they wouldn't call themselves Christian...


There are Christians who believe in Christ that are not even remotely Christian in behavior.

Belief in Christ is not the sole determiner of ones Christianity.



posted on Dec, 15 2015 @ 09:45 AM
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originally posted by: DOCHOLIDAZE1
a reply to: Foderalover

what about the satanists that admit to pedophilia, blood sacrifice, and rape. Not saying all satanists do this but there are some that do. kind of gives them a bad name


FTFY

What about the various members of society that admit to pedophilia, blood sacrifice and rape.



posted on Dec, 15 2015 @ 10:44 AM
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a reply to: uncommitted



LaVeyan Satanism is a philosophy and new religious movement founded in 1966 by American author and occultist, Anton Szandor LaVey. The religion's teachings are codified in The Satanic Bible and overseen by the Church of Satan.


cont...


The religion is atheistic, rejecting the existence of gods and other supernatural beings. Practitioners do not believe that the character of Satan literally exists and do not worship him. Instead, Satan is viewed as a positive archetype who represents pride, carnality, liberty, enlightenment, undefiled wisdom, and of a cosmos which Satanists perceive to be motivated by a "dark evolutionary force of entropy that permeates all of nature and provides the drive for survival and propagation inherent in all living things".

Source



posted on Dec, 15 2015 @ 12:22 PM
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a reply to: peter vlar

Then you are more closely connected with Baal than Satan, but I guess that doesn't sound as cool does it?



posted on Dec, 15 2015 @ 12:25 PM
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originally posted by: dreamingawake
a reply to: uncommitted



LaVeyan Satanism is a philosophy and new religious movement founded in 1966 by American author and occultist, Anton Szandor LaVey. The religion's teachings are codified in The Satanic Bible and overseen by the Church of Satan.


cont...


The religion is atheistic, rejecting the existence of gods and other supernatural beings. Practitioners do not believe that the character of Satan literally exists and do not worship him. Instead, Satan is viewed as a positive archetype who represents pride, carnality, liberty, enlightenment, undefiled wisdom, and of a cosmos which Satanists perceive to be motivated by a "dark evolutionary force of entropy that permeates all of nature and provides the drive for survival and propagation inherent in all living things".

Source



Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's face it, it was an 80's/90's way of taking goth that little bit further - kind of embarrassing really. Like I said in a recent post, that smells more of Baal, but of course that isn't going to sound oh so cool and sexy is it?



posted on Dec, 15 2015 @ 03:58 PM
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In theistic Satanism, there are many Satan's. In this they are spirits who are against God. That is to say which ever God that exists in which there is a Satan. All religions or cults do not have Creators in like manner so a Satan is a spirit which is against the God of your choice. In some sects of Judaism, Satan is a good spirit as one example. His job is to tempt and try you in hopes that you will overcome that which he tempts you with. In Christianity, Satan is a evil spirit who is against his creator and seeks to destroy you. Nevertheless the Satan or Satan's of your choice are not of terrestrial substance but are of spiritual substance (whatever that could be). In some religions a Satan has supernatural powers of destroying you or benefiting you both in this life and an afterlife but regardless he is a entity of power.

Then you also have atheistic Satanism. In this, Satanism is symbolic. By being symbolic it can become whatever you want it to be. Mix a little here and mix a little there but you are not obligated to follow the theistic belief of one against a god. It has its advantages of being one of many organizations or even independent beliefs or practices. It can be your own personal idea which you sell to others or write your own book and and never say a word. The atheist Satanism is the most common because it can change whenever you want to change your mind and add or subtract. You are the god of your choice.



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