Jesus's Face Drawn by Medical Artist Based on Forensic Anthropological Research Trends on News

originally posted by: stormbringer1701
you are incorrect. Jesus or Christus was mentioned by several near contemporary writers who were not Christian. They did not like him very much. also the apostles should count as physical eye witnesses excluding Paul.

Please provide any proof outside of bible he ever existed.

What are those contemporary writers, what publications and when??

If you are unable to do so, will you be man/women enough to acknowledge that he most likely did not exist??

originally posted by: SuperFrog

originally posted by: stormbringer1701
you are incorrect. Jesus or Christus was mentioned by several near contemporary writers who were not Christian. They did not like him very much. also the apostles should count as physical eye witnesses excluding Paul.

Please provide any proof outside of bible he ever existed.

What are those contemporary writers, what publications and when??

If you are unable to do so, will you be man/women enough to acknowledge that he most likely did not exist??

But Gandalf existed, because Bilbo says he saw him in The Lord of the Rings.

a reply to: TheAmazingYeti

Jesus was a caveman?

Jesus didn't leave a skeleton. He ascended.

Jesus was Jewish. Look at modern day Jews, particularly Orthodox Jews. Do they look brown or do they look white?

a reply to: peskyhumans

They can't get tans?

originally posted by: SuperFrog

originally posted by: stormbringer1701
you are incorrect. Jesus or Christus was mentioned by several near contemporary writers who were not Christian. They did not like him very much. also the apostles should count as physical eye witnesses excluding Paul.

Please provide any proof outside of bible he ever existed.

What are those contemporary writers, what publications and when??

If you are unable to do so, will you be man/women enough to acknowledge that he most likely did not exist??

www.agapebiblestudy.com...

That is a reasonable summary if not all inclusive. also bear in mind that when the present calendar was created a 3 or 4 year error was introduced so if you look for reigns or dates of censuses or astronomical events they will be off unless you account for this. for example Christ was born 3 or 4 BCE or BC.

Parenthetically: if you look for such things in history at 1 AD you would not find them. (christ was born 9 months after dec 25, 4 BCE. thus probably in september.) this is not explicit in the bible but follows from verses concerning John the Baptist's birth, known facts about Zechariah and his temple duty (2nd week of the Course of Abaiyah) and Mary's visit to Elizabeth. Since we can pinpoint the exact date of Zechariah's duty at the temple and when he went home (the day after the sabbath of his duty week) we can determine the date of John's conception. and we know Mary visited Elizabeth within a day of her conceiving Christ when Elizabeth was 6 months pregnant. from that it is easy to extrapolate at least the month of Christ's birth (Sept) and probably the very day of it (24 Sept) since there seems to have been no complications to Mary's pregnancy. Anyway Christ was really born on or about 24 sept 4 B.C.E.

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: peskyhumans

They can't get tans?

everyone can get a tan except maybe scandanavian types and albinos. for those who already have heavy pigmentation it is harder to detect but i can assure you even the darkest africans can get tanned.

Mara Bar-Serapion: Syrian stoic philosopher who wrote a letter from prison to his son circa 70AD. He compares Jesus to the philosophers Socrates and Pythagoras.

Josephus ben Mattathias (also known as Flavius Josephus): 37-100AD, Jewish priest, general and historian. He wrote two great works of Jewish history: The Jewish War, written in the early 70's and Jewish Antiquities, which was finished about AD94. In his work, Jewish Antiquities, there is a passage that has created heated debate among scholars for many decades: "Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians so named from him are not extinct at this day." Antiquities, XVIII, 33

The Babylonian Talmud: "It has been taught: On the eve of Passover they hanged Yeshu. And an announcer went out, in front of him, for 40 days (saying): 'He is going to be stoned, because he practiced sorcery and enticed and led Israel astray. Anyone who knows anything in his favor, let him come and plead in his behalf.' But, not having found anything in his favor, they hanged him on the eve of Passover." Sanhedrin 43a; df.t.Sanh. 10:11; y. Sanh. 7:12; Tg. Esther 7:9 (Another version of this text reads: "Yeshu the Nazarene." Yeshu or Yehoshua is Hebrew (or Aramaic) for Jesus in English this name is also translated "Joshua." The Old Testament hero bore the same name as Jesus the Messiah. "Hanged" is another way of referring to a crucifixion; see Luke 23:39 and Galatians 3:13

Tallus: Tallus was a secular historian who (circa AD52) wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean from the Trojan War to his own time. The document no longer exists but it was quoted by other writers like the Christian, Julius Africanus, who wrote around AD221. He quotes Tallus' comments about the darkness that enveloped the land during the late afaternoon hours when Jesus died on the cross. Julius wrote: Tallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away this darkness as an eclipse of the sun unreasonably, as it seems to me (unreasonably of course, because a solar eclipse could not take place at the time of the full moon, and it was at the season of the Paschal full moon that Christ died." Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18.1 The importance of Tallus' comments is that the reference shows that the Gospel account of the darkness that fell across the earth during Christ's crucifixion was well known and required a naturalistic explanation from non-Christians.


Cites from the above link. really though these accounts may be found at diverse sources.

a reply to: stormbringer1701

I wanted peskyhumans to esplain.

Suetonius: Roman historian and court official during the reign of the Emperor Hadrian. Suetonius wrote in his Life of Claudius: "As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome." (Life of Claudius 25.4). Chrestus is a misspelling of Christus; the spelling probably assumes that the spelling of Jesus' title "Christos" was the same as ate ChiRho symbol which was also a literary device which indicated a quote worthy of note = the 'chrestus" symbol. Claudius' expulsion of the Christians form Rome is mentioned in Acts 18:2. This event took place in 49AD. In his work Lives of the Caesars, Suetonius also wrote: "Punishment by Nero was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new and mischievous superstition." Assuming Jesus was crucified in the early thirties, Suetonius places Christians in the Roman capital less than 20 years later and he reports that they were suffering for their faith and dying for their conviction that Jesus had really lived, died and that He had risen from the dead!


( IBID.)

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: stormbringer1701

I wanted peskyhumans to esplain.

Sorry, man. I know how it is when someone takes at face value that which was intended as a joke.

a reply to: introvert

Fox News picks some real gems for their folks.

Megyn Kelly is an idiot. Makes about as much sense as

commentary: no serious bible critic actually argues that Christ did not exist. that is the province of malformed quasi-skepticism. Actually, serious critics argue instead that he was just a man, not that he didn't exist. The preponderance of evidence including eye witnesses and as i said near contemporaries from whom implicit evidence can be taken pretty much excludes the possibility that there was no historical Jesus Christ who founded Christianity.

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: SuperFrog

originally posted by: stormbringer1701
you are incorrect. Jesus or Christus was mentioned by several near contemporary writers who were not Christian. They did not like him very much. also the apostles should count as physical eye witnesses excluding Paul.

Please provide any proof outside of bible he ever existed.

What are those contemporary writers, what publications and when??

If you are unable to do so, will you be man/women enough to acknowledge that he most likely did not exist??

But Gandalf existed, because Bilbo says he saw him in The Lord of the Rings.

you do realize, i'm sure, that unlike Bilbo who is a fictional character; the witnesses such as the apostles as well as secular or pagan witnesses are real persons. You cannot seriously think that every witness of Christ is fictional. Thus in order to take the ridiculous tact that Christ himself never existed you would also have to support that all the additional witnesses who either knew Christ personally or knew of him indirectly were also fictional.

a reply to: FamCore

that cant be real :p

Isn't this really, really old news? At least several years old? Wasn't there a documentary special where they "reconstructed" the "face of Jesus" with clay or something and it came out looking like this?

Jesus looked like any other run of the mill Palestinian. If he had blue eyes and blond hair, he would have been gawked at. Sure, there were Romans around, but by and large they had dark hair and eyes too.

originally posted by: peskyhumans
Jesus didn't leave a skeleton. He ascended.

Any source aside from the Bible that recorded this supposed ascension?

originally posted by: stormbringer1701

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: SuperFrog

originally posted by: stormbringer1701
you are incorrect. Jesus or Christus was mentioned by several near contemporary writers who were not Christian. They did not like him very much. also the apostles should count as physical eye witnesses excluding Paul.

Please provide any proof outside of bible he ever existed.

What are those contemporary writers, what publications and when??

If you are unable to do so, will you be man/women enough to acknowledge that he most likely did not exist??

But Gandalf existed, because Bilbo says he saw him in The Lord of the Rings.

you do realize, i'm sure, that unlike Bilbo who is a fictional character; the witnesses such as the apostles as well as secular or pagan witnesses are real persons. You cannot seriously think that every witness of Christ is fictional. Thus in order to take the ridiculous tact that Christ himself never existed you would also have to support that all the additional witnesses who either knew Christ personally or knew of him indirectly were also fictional.

Christ the person most likely existed. Other historical figures verified this, but none of them observed divine acts attributed to him. Except of course the apostles who wrote about it in a book decades after his death. This same book has talking snakes and a man living in the stomach of a great fish for three days. My point is The Lord of the Rings books are no more unbelievable than the Bible.

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: peskyhumans
Jesus didn't leave a skeleton. He ascended.

Any source aside from the Bible that recorded this supposed ascension?

isn't that rather silly? Rome definitely wouldn't admit to it nor would the Jews. They placed guards specifically so that Christ's friends would not steal the body and make such claims. So who do you think would record that other than the early church.

so if you have a proposition which demands evidence that would not exist whether the thing being tested were true or not what is the merit?

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: stormbringer1701

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: SuperFrog

originally posted by: stormbringer1701
you are incorrect. Jesus or Christus was mentioned by several near contemporary writers who were not Christian. They did not like him very much. also the apostles should count as physical eye witnesses excluding Paul.

Please provide any proof outside of bible he ever existed.

What are those contemporary writers, what publications and when??

If you are unable to do so, will you be man/women enough to acknowledge that he most likely did not exist??

But Gandalf existed, because Bilbo says he saw him in The Lord of the Rings.

you do realize, i'm sure, that unlike Bilbo who is a fictional character; the witnesses such as the apostles as well as secular or pagan witnesses are real persons. You cannot seriously think that every witness of Christ is fictional. Thus in order to take the ridiculous tact that Christ himself never existed you would also have to support that all the additional witnesses who either knew Christ personally or knew of him indirectly were also fictional.

Christ the person most likely existed. Other historical figures verified this, but none of them observed divine acts attributed to him. Except of course the apostles who wrote about it in a book decades after his death. This same book has talking snakes and a man living in the stomach of a great fish for three days. My point is The Lord of the Rings books are no more unbelievable than the Bible.

i think on the contrary; the "eclipse"/darkness is miraculous and was recorded by at least two separate non Christian parties.