Evangelical Preacher on Trial After Branding Islam 'Satanic'

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

They don't have me worshiping anything. My higher power has nothing to do with religion.

It is really interesting how posters here tend to defends this preacher, who is no different then Muslim hate preachers?! Calling an religion satanic and asking for action is blueprint, and will never result in something good.

What makes us different from terrorist is that we don't allow this kind of teaching - hate is not welcomed and that is what makes us good in this fight.

But again, sad for mislead posters who seems to support what this idiot was saying...

a reply to: shooterbrody

I'm glad we have the right to be stupid idiots in the US, even though I'm not one. I'm surprised the EU is that extreme in its suppression of individual speech/thought. I've known about the German thought crime laws regarding the holocaust, etc., but figured that was a guilt-assuaging (legit word?) abberation of history. I guess not.

originally posted by: dogstar23
a reply to: shooterbrody

I'm glad we have the right to be stupid idiots in the US, even though I'm not one. I'm surprised the EU is that extreme in its suppression of individual speech/thought. I've known about the German thought crime laws regarding the holocaust, etc., but figured that was a guilt-assuaging (legit word?) abberation of history. I guess not.

I agree.
I still can't believe a civilized country like the uk has these kinds of limits on free speech. No wonder why they question our gun laws...no one over there has real freedom they can not understand.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
I agree.
I still can't believe a civilized country like the uk has these kinds of limits on free speech. No wonder why they question our gun laws...no one over there has real freedom they can not understand.

It is a very sad time when people measure their freedom by ownership of guns...

How did world get so screw up ???

a reply to: shooterbrody

Ok, so you understand what is happening a bit better. The minister is on trial, the prosecution will need to demonstrate that his sermons could be classified as hate speech under certain laws.

There is no actual law against hate speech itself in the UK.

Legal protection is provided under various statutes. The Public Order Act 1986 forbids racial hatred against individuals of groups including colour, race, ethnic origin and nationality. This can include threatening behaviour and written material that is designed to cause harassment and distress.

In 2006; The Public Order Act was been amended to include religious hatred.
In 2008, the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act amended the Public Order Act to forbid the incitement of hatred on the grounds of sexual orientation.

Civil Rights UK

I'm no lawyer, but as I see it he will be charged under the Public Order Act, 2006, if found to be guilty. These are the same laws that prevent radical muslim clerics from preaching hate and inciting murder from their mosques. It works both ways.

ETA: It's how we remain a civilised country.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
What he said is 100 percent true however. It is easy to see how Islam is satanic when it utilizes insidious and false doctrine of a false prophet to openly call for the murder of others, and tell them God approves of that.

It is all perspective, in your view Islam's god and prophet are 'false', and to them vice versa, so have fun killing each other over trying to figure out whose flavor of religion tastes better.

In my view God is not false, I have never said God is false.
The prophet Mohammed was not a true prophet though, and people used him and adorned him with the status to create an army in the past, and it's sole purpose was to conquer and destroy for loot and murder, and gaining more soldiers, by deviant blood thirsty barbarians, exactly like we see today! Hey!

originally posted by: SuperFrog

originally posted by: shooterbrody
I agree.
I still can't believe a civilized country like the uk has these kinds of limits on free speech. No wonder why they question our gun laws...no one over there has real freedom they can not understand.

It is a very sad times when people measure their freedom by ownership of guns...

How did world get so screw up ???

It filled up with charlatans just like Obama and Bush, who use vast arsenals of guns to guard themselves, and threaten other nations with lethal reprisal unless allegiances are paid.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
In my view God is not false, I have never said God is false.
The prophet Mohammed was not a true prophet though...

Says you, and we are back to the same old problem, your particular religious bent is somehow better.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
I guess I didn't realize euros had a state religion IE if the state doesn't like what you say from a pulpit the state can say it is not religion.
Crazy that your state controls your religions.

No crazier than the American system, where the 501(3)(c) status of most churches allows the government to prevent certain things being preached under threat of revocation of tax exemption/penalty.

Crazy that your state controls your religions.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
In my view God is not false, I have never said God is false.
The prophet Mohammed was not a true prophet though...

Says you, and we are back to the same old problem, your particular religious bent is somehow better.

I am a disciple of Christ, a born again Christian. Was this the religious bent you are referring to? Are you going to call for my death now? I haven't ever harmed anyone, but since I'm a Christian, I''ll bet you can come up with a reason, or perhaps just being a Christian is reason enough, but murderous extremist Muslims you would grant clemency too I suppose? Well, God Bless you for having a forgiving and compassionate heart, even though a singular bent in persuasion!

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
I am a disciple of Christ, a born again Christian.

Good for you.

Was this the religious bent you are referring to?

Fundementalism.

Are you going to call for my death now?

Should I?

I haven't ever harmed anyone...

That's nice.

...but since I'm a Christian, I''ll bet you can come up with a reason, or perhaps just being a Christian is reason enough, but murderous extremist Muslims you would grant clemency too I suppose?

Where I am granting clemency to anyone?

Well, God Bless you for having a forgiving and compassionate heart, even though a singular bent in persuasion!

Stop your silly pity party, it is unseemly and frankly not very Christ-like.

monty python skit: "Do you want to give up being a mason?" XD

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I am far removed from anything to do with fundamentalism.

I was hesitant to say this before, but now I see you are so full of brown stuff, it is coming out of your fingertips.
'

But I suspected that before. Can't be too quick to judge you know, at least not like you have been doing, with that big ole plug of hypocrisy in your lower lip.

originally posted by: SuperFrog
It is really interesting how posters here tend to defends this preacher, who is no different then Muslim hate preachers?! Calling an religion satanic and asking for action is blueprint, and will never result in something good.

What makes us different from terrorist is that we don't allow this kind of teaching - hate is not welcomed and that is what makes us good in this fight.

But again, sad for mislead posters who seems to support what this idiot was saying...

I don't have a problem with what he's said apart from I don't agree with it and it's stupid. I don't have a problem with Muslim hate preachers either apart from I don't agree with them and they're stupid. People should be free to say anything they want and if they say something patently ridiculous the merits of their rhetoric should be debated and destroyed with logic, not laws.

Freedom with limitations isn't freedom.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
I am far removed from anything to do with fundamentalism.

Sure you are not:

It is easy to see how Islam is satanic when it utilizes insidious and false doctrine of a false prophet to openly call for the murder of others, and tell them God approves of that.

Replace 'Islam' with 'Christianity' and see how you feel.

I was hesitant to say this before, but now I see you are so full of brown stuff, it is coming out of your fingertips.

Actually, it is you, and every other fundamental born again, that are really full of it. You pretend to be all lovey dovey, but unless you are another born again, well, just look at your words above to get the idea. I bet you can be real quick to inform us all how everyone is going to hell because they have not accepted Jesus as their lord and savior.

originally posted by: SuperFrog
It is really interesting how posters here tend to defends this preacher, who is no different then Muslim hate preachers?! .

That's exactly what I thought when I saw the story. If it had been a Muslim Cleric and he'd said the exact same things (switching "Christian" for "Muslim" in his remarks), people would demand that the law step in and stop him because his preaching was radicalizing others to a dangerous point.

His being Christian does not excuse him. We cannot afford to allow one religion to do something and ban another religion from doing the same thing.

originally posted by: dreamingawake

originally posted by: Specimen
Well, Satan does mean Adversary, which can mean enemy. It literally like pointing and saying Witch. The only difference is the Christians say Satan, while for Muslums, just point Allah that way.

I don't believe he meant it as adversary but rather Satanic as that they torture and kill, similar to when "Satanic Cults" are blamed for gruesome murders. He's blaming ISIL's behavior on all Muslims which of course is wrong. While I don't agree at all what he said, find it ignorant, I do agree he has a right to say it. It's odd that courts have favored otherwise. Assuming they see the behavior as detrimental because it's said to be influencing people to commit crimes against Muslims.

Ok...Point Satan, Yah Weh, Kali, Odin, Raijin, Zeus, Set, or Baal that way!?

originally posted by: beansidhe
War does happen because of inflammatory comments, of course it does. And because of religious intolerance. It doesn't matter who's at fault, don't you get that? People died because of inflammatory comments in Belfast.

You definitely don't have it correct, the 30 + yrs of violence and bloodshed were not about Catholics taking away Protestants 'rights'.
Look at who came to support this man in court - that doesn't seem political to you? Obviously he thinks muslims are satanists, he probably thinks the pope is satan, alcohol is the devil's milk, dancing is heathen and people who hang washing out on a Sunday will burn in Hell.

You also need to remember that without these laws Abu Hamza and his crew would be free to spout their relious bile without repercussion, so they work both ways.

The point is that war happens because someone starts it. If someone starts a war, and claims it's because of something someone else said, that's a lame excuse. The comments didn't start the war; the overblown reaction to said comments started the war.

So, from your point of view, what was it all about? I am asking honestly. I have read many claims, and all are very biased one ay or the other. It's difficult to get at the actual facts. This isn't something I have studied in depth. I do understand it's been between Catholics and Protestants.

The point about this guy is, he has a right to that opinion. He has a right to preach it. Unless he's calling for violence, he isn't doing anything wrong. If he was telling people to go out and commit acts of violence, then he'd be charged rightfully. Simply stating that he believes this or that is Satanic in nature isn't a good reason. It's his opinion. I don't have to agree with someone's beliefs to accept that they have a right to them.

As far as I can see, the Muslims are getting away with it. They preach and encourage actual violence, and nothing is done, but he makes a simple statement, and he's charged? That's just not right.

As far as I am concerned, Muslims could proclaim till the cows come home that all non-Muslims are from Satan, if they weren't also acting out in violence against those same people. It's the actions that cause the problem. I have encountered some people I'd call flat-out evil, but I didn't attack any of them.

a reply to: infolurker

Thank you infolurker for the link to Walid Shoebat. Within the past year I have grown from being an agnostic to a follower of Christ Jesus. I have found Mr. Shoebat resonates a lot with me and find his life from a former PLO member to a Christian very interesting.