Russian destroyer fires warning shots at Turkish fishing boat on collision course in Aegean

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: tanka418

Thank you. Both gentlemen are involved in illegal activities. Putin runs his government using the same techniques that crime bosses do. He personally approves every corrupt business venture and uses his inside knowledge of loopholes to blackmail oligarchs into doing his bidding. Disloyalty is punished by death, economically or literally. As for Erdogan, his family connections to corrupt, illegal activities are well known. This is why " international law" is irrelevant. This is a turf war between two rival crime syndicates.

Many of those attributes you give to Putin can also be characterized as good politics and diplomacy. I won't argue that some tactics are "above and beyond" what seems reasonable. Nor would I argue that some activities are illegal, but, I would hasten to point out that these are the behaviors of virtually all world "leaders".

Some of what we perceive as "wrong" or "corrupt" are cultural differences; it is important that we properly adapt to this.

Putin has already signaled that he is about to throw Assad under the bus. He cannot afford a protracted campaign in yet another corner of the Near Abroad. The Russian Navy and Merchant Marine require unimpeded access to the Bosporus, and the Russian economy needs the Turk Pipeline to be constructed. Provided Russia gets to keep its Mediterranean port, it doesn't matter who heads the Syrian government. Contrary to what some people who are overly influenced by Russian propaganda, Turkey holds all the cards. All Putin can do is bluster to save face.

I was going to respond here with how that is what I had expected from the beginning. That Putin was more interested in stabilizing Syria, and then holding elections and possible replace Assad.

It is appearing this may be the plan; from MSN -- Russia open to Assad's ouster after Syria transition: diplomats

This may be a good thing...

a reply to: tanka418

Many of those attributes you give to Putin can also be characterized as good politics and diplomacy. I won't argue that some tactics are "above and beyond" what seems reasonable. Nor would I argue that some activities are illegal, but, I would hasten to point out that these are the behaviors of virtually all world "leaders".

Not necessarily. Putin, with his street tough origins and KGB training is a particularly egregious example of criminal behavior. Good politics and good diplomacy do not rely on blackmail and force, they rely on negotiation. Good negotiation is the art of seeing what the other side wants or needs, and finding a way to provide it that also benefits one's self.

Some of what we perceive as "wrong" or "corrupt" are cultural differences; it is important that we properly adapt to this.

Funny coming from someone who quoted chapter and verse from international law. Putin and Erdogan share the same culture of corruption. Both believe that there is no law but strength. That is why Putin orders his air force to illegally violate other country's airspace, and Erdogan ordered his air force to shoot down any plane entering Turkish airspace under any circumstances.

I was going to respond here with how that is what I had expected from the beginning. That Putin was more interested in stabilizing Syria, and then holding elections and possible replace Assad.

First and foremost, Putin is interested in retaining a naval presence in the Mediterranean, and maintaining influence in the Levant. Now that Putin and Erdogan have reached an understanding-- they are both tough SOBs worthy of each others' respect-- they can start negotiating what the realities will be when the war is over. This will involve re-drawing the map.