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Gun shop owner selling 'Muslim Free Zone' signs in Florida

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posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 12:13 PM
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originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: DBCowboy

What are their concerns? How would this sign, bumper sticker, or t shirt address any of their concerns? Are you saying America isn't fighting a war against terrorism while passing draconian laws to prevent terrorism in the USA? Please, elaborate these concerns?


I can only assess their reactions. I can't begin to speak for anyone else. But if they are buying these items, then it is obviously as a reaction to the terrorism issue that isn't being addressed properly.


You know what it is, it's fear and bigotry. Those are my concerns and I'm addressing them.


Don't worry, I won't call you an idiot because you choose to express your concerns this way.




posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 12:18 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

But you are trying to speak for their actions. Why is it you can't believe people can and will be bigots? I'm sure if the shoe was on the other foot and the target religion here was Christianity you'd be singing a different tune, right? Well unless you don't support any religion and don't care one way or another.

Calling me an idiot would be a mistake since pointing out bigotry is not idiotic. Defending it is though.



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 12:33 PM
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a reply to: IAMTAT



On the contrary, I am on the record in this thread, far earlier, in fact, than you, in deriding this sign and the individual selling it.


I know that. I was not commenting on your personal position. I was commenting on the effect of you taking the focus off of the sign and placing it on the Islamic Caliphate.



Funny how my pointing out the fact that the sign's wording could be interpreted by some in a different way, due to it's wording, causes you to jump to the conclusion I was defending or justifying it.


I didn't comment on you interpretation of the sign. I commented on your comparison of the sign and the caliphate.



You're appearing too knee-jerk, old chap...and, I'm sorry to say, guilty of close-mindedness.

Open your mind to discussion of all aspects of this story; that's what we do here. It will reflect better upon you and your arguments in future.


Is the topic about me? I appreciate your snark, but this has nothing to do with me or your original assertion of how the sign can be interpreted. You said "beats" me and then brought the caliphate in to the discussion. That was what my post was focusing on.

Since that is cleared-up, are you going to address what I actually said in my post? How does your red herring argument stand-up to any logical examination?



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 12:36 PM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: IAMTAT



What do you think of my point that 'The Islamic Caliphate' is a 'Christian Free Zone' (as well as a Jew Free Zone, Homosexual Free Zone...).


In doing so, you create the idea that both the "Muslim-free" sign and the Islamic Caliphate are somehow equal or similar. Both are rooted in ignorance and hatred, but while you try to justify the "Muslim-free" sign by proposing it could be interpreted as "this family in non-Muslim", you condemn the other for being "deadly".



The Islamic Caliphate is DEMONSTRATIVELY "deadly" (i.e. beheadings, crucifixions, public immolation, pushing homosexuals off of buildings, stoning of women, enslavement...the list is quite extensive)

The bigoted sign, is just stupid.

EDIT:
So no, I do not consider my comparison to be a "red herring". I consider my comparison to be relevant and apropos to the discussion, as it concerns Muslims as, both victims of bigotry...and purveyors of it.
edit on 13-12-2015 by IAMTAT because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-12-2015 by IAMTAT because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 12:49 PM
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originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: DBCowboy

But you are trying to speak for their actions. Why is it you can't believe people can and will be bigots? I'm sure if the shoe was on the other foot and the target religion here was Christianity you'd be singing a different tune, right? Well unless you don't support any religion and don't care one way or another.


I'm trying to understand their actions. I won't simply assume they are idiots simply because they don't think like me.

I don't care, one way or another about any religion.


Calling me an idiot would be a mistake since pointing out bigotry is not idiotic. Defending it is though.



So I'm an idiot because I defend people's rights and try to understand the underlying cause for their actions instead of being superficial.

Okay.



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 12:52 PM
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originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: Xtrozero

You need a sign that states your property is a Walker-Free Zone. But be prepared for confusion as Walking Dead fans assume you mean zombies.

Either way, you should probably be armed at all times just in case elderly terrorism strikes you!


He actually smiled and waved at me the other day when I caught him about to make a move on me. He is a smart one I'll give him that, but you got me all bothered now, so I'll go and prep my guns again.



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 12:55 PM
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originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: FlySolo

Islam is a religion first and foremost. Going by your logic the same can be said about Judaism and Christianity, hell all religions.

Here in America we are supposed to be tolerant of all religions. Unless of course, we continue to want our founder fathers to roll their eyes at us.


It's only a religion first and foremost to other Muslims. The political Islam doctrine however, as it relates to kafirs, demands that it (Islam) dominates all facets of politics and culture. Islam is based on the trilogy of three books. The Qu'ran, Hadith and Sira. Devoted text to the Kafirs in the Sira and Qu'ran is 75% and 61% respectively. Islam is a political ideology, not a religious one.



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 01:04 PM
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a reply to: IAMTAT



The Islamic Caliphate is DEMONSTRATIVELY "deadly" (i.e. beheadings, crucifixions, public immolation, pushing homosexuals off of buildings, stoning of women, enslavement...the list is quite extensive)



OK. What does that have to do with this topic? Nothing.

By its very nature and definition, it is a red herring because it takes the focus off of the topic and puts it elsewhere.

The two really are not comparable. One is a sign and the other is an Islamic state. Why on Earth you decided to ask me about the caliphate in reference to someone's dumbass sign is beyond me. As I said earlier, it makes no sense.



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 01:38 PM
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originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: Kandinsky

Yeah, that's all very obvious and no one is saying to take away his rights of free speech. I'm pointing out what a bigot he continues to be. Just as he can advertise what a dick he is, I can point out just what a dick he is.


Yep, and nobody here seems to disagree with that. But the option to disregard this and ignore the thread altogether was there, and many, including you chose option B. so there is that.

But just so you know, it's now fashionable to openly express ignorant partisan rhetoric.. Don't you want to be one of the cool kids?



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 02:35 PM
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originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: lucentenigma

Since you mentioned ww2, it's no different than the fear of communism after the war. If you even breathe the word red in conversation and you were put on a watch list. The paranoia was strong.


Only difference is, there actually is an army hell bent on dominating the world. Whether or not it was assisted by the very countries it wishes to dominate is irrelevant at this point. btw.


See what I did there:




posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 03:04 PM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: IAMTAT



The Islamic Caliphate is DEMONSTRATIVELY "deadly" (i.e. beheadings, crucifixions, public immolation, pushing homosexuals off of buildings, stoning of women, enslavement...the list is quite extensive)



OK. What does that have to do with this topic? Nothing.

By its very nature and definition, it is a red herring because it takes the focus off of the topic and puts it elsewhere.

The two really are not comparable. One is a sign and the other is an Islamic state. Why on Earth you decided to ask me about the caliphate in reference to someone's dumbass sign is beyond me. As I said earlier, it makes no sense.


The two are completely comparable.

BOTH the dumbass sign and the dumbass Islamic Caliphate personify religious bigotry and define geographic Zones of religious exclusion; the former, by non-Muslims towards Muslims; the latter BY Muslims towards everybody else.

The dumbass sign, however, does so for a relatively small area inhabited by relatively small minds (the average size of somebody's lot).
The dumbass Islamic Caliphate, currently occupying Iraq and Syria is almost exactly the size of Great Britain (measured in sq. miles)...and continues to expand the borders of it's zone without restraint.


The dumbass sign exists as a bigoted exclusionary WARNING to Muslims ONLY.
The dumbass Islamic Caliphate exists as a bigoted and barbaric DEATH SENTENCE to EVERY non-Muslim religious group on the planet.

One is far more egregious than the other.
One covers far more land mass in it's role as a bigotry-inspired exclusionary zone towards other religions.
One is far more deadly than the other and has consistently meted out death, torture and genocide and enslavement to people NOT of the Muslim faith.

The other...is just a dumbass sign.

edit on 13-12-2015 by IAMTAT because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 03:33 PM
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a reply to: IAMTAT

You use the first paragraph to say that they are comparable, and then use the rest of your post showing exactly why they aren't comparable at all. There is a big difference between the two.

That has been my point. Why did you even bring this caliphate crap in to the discussion when we were discussing the damned sign?

It has nothing to do with this topic and when you injected it in to this conversation it became a distraction from the topic.

A red herring.

I simply asked why people would want to advertise that they are a Muslim-Free family and you go-off on some rant about caliphates.
edit on 13-12-2015 by introvert because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-12-2015 by introvert because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 04:01 PM
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Sharia bans all non- Muslims from owning weapons.

Turnabout is FairPlay.



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 04:21 PM
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a reply to: introvert

My point to you, again:

I am comparing (and contrasting) this 'Muslim FREE Zone'...with the Islamic Caliphate's 'Muslim ONLY Zone' to draw the parallel between the bigotry, religious persecution and religious exclusion TOWARDS Muslims...and the bigotry, religious persecution and religious exclusion BY Muslims.

BOTH personify religious bigotry in practice and by their very nature, yet, through comparison, it becomes very clear which presents the more excessive, extensive...and deadliest threat to other religions.

Your implied opinion that we should only speak of the religious freedoms of Muslims in terms of them being victimized by others...while not also being allowed to draw parallels with relevant examples of Muslim victimization of the religious freedoms of other's...seems myopic and intolerant towards promoting fair and balanced debate.

There are always two sides to every coin...and, sometimes BOTH sides are dirty...and sometimes one dirty side is worse than the other.

edit on 13-12-2015 by IAMTAT because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 04:29 PM
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Regardless of what political correctness says, people have a right to decide who they want in their own home. If this guy doesn't want muslims in his home that is his choice to make. If he wants to advertise that fact that is also his choice to make.

I said before that I believe this is just a tongue in cheek commentary, a joke not meant to be taken seriously. If you insist on taking it seriously, why not look at it this way: In a time when many, including some of the highest levels of our government, are suspected of being terrorist sympathizers, of aiding and arming terror, is it that unrealistic to want to identify yourself as someone who is not?

Does coming on to this forum and playing a game of Spot the Bigot really accomplish anything? OK, you identified someone as what you perceive as a bigot. Big deal. What now? Do you get points or a cookie? Does it make you feel superior in some way? What do you get out of it? Is it that important to you that people know you think he is a bigot? If so, why?

There are bigoted views everywhere. The people who bark about it the most usually need look no further than a mirror to find it. Not everyone feels the need to run over and wave a finger in their face shouting, "I found one! I found one!"



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 04:35 PM
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a reply to: IAMTAT



I am comparing (and contrasting) this 'Muslim FREE Zone'...with the Islamic Caliphate's 'Muslim ONLY Zone' to draw the parallel between the bigotry, religious persecution and religious exclusion TOWARDS Muslims...and the bigotry, religious persecution and religious exclusion BY Muslims.


Yes, a red herring. Muslim caliphates are not the topic of the thread.



Your implied opinion that we should only speak of the religious freedoms of Muslims in terms of them being victimized by others...while not also being allowed to draw parallels with relevant examples of Muslim victimization of the religious freedoms of other's...seems myopic and intolerant towards promoting fair and balanced debate.


I've not said or implied anything whatsoever about religious freedoms.

You're just making # up as you go along.



There are always two sides to every coin...and, sometimes BOTH sides are dirty...and sometimes one dirty side is worse than the other.


Ya, I get it. You think Muslim caliphates are bad. Doesn't change the fact that it's like comparing a stubbed-toe to a gunshot wound. How you went from a silly sign to Muslim caliphate is beyond me.



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 04:41 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

What's so hard about understanding bigotry, hatred for another religion in this case? It's clearly in your face but you're looking for any excuse to explain that this isn't based on hate and fear to justify this gun shop owners actions and those who support him. It all seems very ignorant. Maybe you just like to really like to debate with people no matter what the subject is?

I'm not calling you an idiot, unless you're admitting you defend people who are bigots, but defending hate is stupid and idiotic.
edit on 13-12-2015 by Swills because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 04:43 PM
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Just keep it simple and be like me. Have a full understanding, therefore a full loathing, of every religion.

Makes things easier. But you can't ban any of them because then you'd make no money.



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 04:44 PM
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a reply to: FlySolo

I'm sure the majority of the world views Islam as a religion. In fact, you're the first person I've ever known to say it isn't. Well, I'm not gonna pretend I majored in Islamic studies so I'm gonna just leave this argument by saying agree to completely disagree.



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 04:47 PM
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originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: DBCowboy

What's so hard about understanding bigotry, hatred for another religion in this case? It's clearly in your face but you're looking for any excuse to explain that this isn't based on hate and fear to justify this gun shop owners actions and those who support him. It all seems very ignorant. Maybe you just like to really like to debate with people no matter what the subject is.

I'm not calling you an idiot, unless you're admitting you defend people who are bigots, but defending hate is stupid and idiotic.


I am curious. What would you say to someone who defended this guys right to be himself, to live his life his way? I don't have to agree with what he says to defend his right to say it. How do you fit his right to free speech in with your condemnation of his actions?



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