A shocking discovery about the "National Debt"

www.usadebtclock.com...

according to this our unfunded liabilities debt for each citizen of the good ole USA Is $$382,000 per American citizen. That includes all the social services the US has promised; medicare, ss, and so on.

but I like your numbers, 55,ooo for each citizen vs. 382,000

Ok I don't know about some of you, didn't read all the replies... but OP- you do whatever you think you need to.

As for me? I don't owe a damn thing. I didn't spend that money. It materialized out of thin air and they SAY that you owe it.

I cringe every time I hear/read the words "tax payer funded". No, that is not a thing. Your precious "tax dollars" aren't paying for crap. It's just money they steal from you and it's not even a drop in the bucket of what they've made up.

Sooner or later, it WILL all fall down.

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
a reply to: NewzNose

If you take out the interest from the debt he got when he became president, is debt is less than the 8 years of bush.

Bush did 6 trillion in 8 years, Obama did more than that in his first 4 years. You just lied. And are you suggesting we keep the interest in for Bush, and then only take it our for Obama?

Kind of disgusting.

Obama is at $6.167 trillion added since hes been president, under bush it was $5.849 trillion. Now count the interest and inflation.

Ive never said you cant count the same for bush, but your the one lying cause obama is at 6 trillion after 7 years, not 4.

Numbers are your friend.

The debt numbers that were estimated for 2013 were apparently revised and made lower by a trillion or so. At the 6 year mark Obama is already ahead. So unless he is LOWERING the debt, your claim is false.

BUSH $6.1 Trillion
09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2009 11,909,829,003,511.75

OBAMA $6.24 Trillion
09/30/2009 11,909,829,003,511.75
09/30/2013 16,738,183,526,697.32
After 4 years $4.82
09/30/2015 18,150,604,277,750.63

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

So you claimed i said a bunch of stuff on a bunch of different threads, i will wish you a good night, and we can resume are debating tommorow.

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

So you claimed i said a bunch of stuff on a bunch of different threads, i will wish you a good night, and we can resume are debating tommorow.

No, you said remove the interest for Obama and it's less than Bush. Even if you do, it's still higher, and we are only at 6 years, not 8. Why would you want only Obama to have no interest? If you wanted them both to have no interest then why did you say to remove the interest for Obama, should you not have said remove the interest for both? After the debt revision Obama is indeed less than Bush (comparing 4 years of Obama to 8 years of Bush). At 6 years Obama is the victor.

How about cutting the pay of congress and reps down to the average income of their constituency. See how fast things change.

originally posted by: CoBaZ
Ok I got to seeing all the news stories about the national debt and how every american owes in the thousands.

I decided to put that to the test...

Source for Raw info page

I pulled up the year 2014 which is the last year with actual numbers.

Year GDP Population(in Millions) Debt in Trillions Actual/Estimated
2014 17.244 319.634_________________17.79_________ a

Divided the debt between the population.

17,790,000,000,000 / 319,634,000

Here is the Actual number Each citizen of the US owes as of 2014

$55,657.41 this is per person...

It was no where near this bad in 1970 (630,000,000,000 / 216,945,000 = $2903.96) , What happened?

How do we fix this?

Do we put all politicians on a spending moratorium ?
Do we cut all non essential services the government provides?

I have stated bringing up a problem with out presenting a solution is just Gritching, I do not want to that if I can avoid it.

I suggest when we get a New president in office no matter who it is, that he calls an emergency meeting of congress that is not allowed to go on vacation, has to sleep on cots in the chamber until a real budget that puts America back at ZERO debt is reached. Not Reached down the Road but with in 4 Years or everyone in government is fired, and new elections are Held. If this means No income tax refunds for four years so be it, if it means no research money for mating habits of snails it does not matter. If it means Duplicate services provided by alphabet soup are cut ok I do not think we honestly need NSA,FBI,CIA,TSA,Secret Service,Police,Constables and Sheriffs we could Reduce to maybe just Two or three, Duly Elected Sheriffs and their Appointed Deputies (county/Parish Level) and the FBI (federal Level) plus big maybe a state level like the Texas Rangers. (if cities want a Police level for cities then that is funded 100% by the city). Any program not specifically covered by the US Constitution should be sunset. In the case of Medicare turn that over to the state level government, In the case of SSI set a cut off age that is still young enough to earn a retirement, Those people and younger no longer have it deducted from their check. The ones over the cut off age still pay into the system until they are drawing it. The payments for SS go out until the last person drawing it is dead. (this ensures no grannies are thrown under the bus).

Couple this with Congress must reach Zero by the end of four years, And no new spending until they maintain a return to Zero or even better A Surplus above Zero, not a surplus above Base line for Four Years after that.

Of course this means all financial aide to other counties gets cut flat off, but then we avoid having to borrow also. And there would be no need for bank bail outs or bail ins, no Greece level posterity measures.

America could be financially on top again.

There we go a Proposed Solution.

Something to chew on for the weekend

CoBaZ

What makes is this sort of propaganda worse (alarm about not having enough tax money to pay it off) is knowing that govt can create money out of thin air just like banks do and eliminate all this debt and provide for all the goods and services required by the economy. (including incomes for all) If they did, none of us would have to pay tax because the 'tax' we pay is only the interest the govt pays on money it borrows from banks.

It was governments who created credit before they gave the right away to the banks.

Governments now only prints banknotes and coins which constitutes only about 5-10% of all the money in circulation.

Banks create 90% of the money in circulation by using yours and my signature to create an account into which they put credit which only becomes money when the write the number in the spreadsheet cell.

Before they write the number in the cell there is no money. When they finish entering the number, that amount of money is thereby, at that point, created. I.e. the amount of money is created just by entering the number in the spreadsheet cell.

We can see from this that government can, if they wanted to, do the same thing and create all the money necessary to eliminate the national debt and provide all the goods and services required in the economy (including incomes for all). They could do this each month, each quarter, bi-annually or annually to ensure the amount of money created is equal the GDP to prevent inflation.

The good thing is that this knowledge is now becoming more and more widespread.

originally posted by: NewzNose
a reply to: CoBaZ

Obama doubled the national debt in his 7 years in office. He did in 2 terms what all other Presidents combined didn't do. He is just that good.

Of course it was and still is...Bush's fault, right ?

Yes actually, not saying Obama hasn't helped but this is absolutely Bush's mess.
Source

Barack Obama: Added $6.167 trillion, a 53% increase to the $11.657 trillion debt level attributable to President Bush at the end of his last budget, FY 2009.

FY 2014 - $1.086 trillion.
FY 2013 - $672 billion.
FY 2012 - $1.276 trillion.
FY 2011 - $1.229 trillion.
FY 2010 - $1.652 trillion.
FY 2009 - $253 billion. (Congress passed the Economic Stimulus Act, which spent $253 billion in FY 2009. This rare occurrence should be added to President Obama's contribution to the debt.)
George W. Bush: Added $5.849 trillion, a 101% increase to the $5.8 trillion debt level at the end of Clinton's last budget, FY 2001.

FY 2009 - $1.632 trillion. (Bush's deficit without the impact of the Economic Stimulus Act).
FY 2008 - $1.017 trillion.
FY 2007 - $501 billion.
FY 2006 - $574 billion.
FY 2005 - $554 billion.
FY 2004 - $596 billion.
FY 2003 - $555 billion.
FY 2002 - $421 billion.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Yes, I know. See my previous post so stating.

The main cause of Government debt in Western Nations is the the lack of Corporates paying their fair share of company tax. They have tax havens all around the world and are cheating the rest of us. Governments are just sitting back and letting them do it. Now ask the question why and how they manage to get with this immoral act!!

a reply to: CoBaZ

I appreciate how your so optimistic. But do you really believe our country is going to get out of debt? Do you think anyone running for president could actually get this done? I believe I heard were really about 65 trillion in debt. I tend to be optimistic as well, but also realistic. I wouldn't hold my breath.

originally posted by: grmorrow
The main cause of Government debt in Western Nations is the the lack of Corporates paying their fair share of company tax. They have tax havens all around the world and are cheating the rest of us. Governments are just sitting back and letting them do it. Now ask the question why and how they manage to get with this immoral act!!

So it's immoral to try not to let another group steal your money?

It's not them cheating you. It's 'government'...

a reply to: shinethelight

No so much optimistic as hoping since the Government likes to keep its eye on Conspiracy theorist they would read posts like this and see fixes being presented and maybe get a clue if they want to keep us pacified sometimes it is best to take away what worries us.

Not to mention the days of a being able to take the wife and the kids to a movie and treat them to cokes and popcorn for under ten bucks would be a boon to which ever political party pulled it off... They would wind up with the Job for at least a generation or two...

I am suggesting the next president (we all know the current one will not do it) use the Bully Pulpit of Public Opinion to force Congress to Do their Job...

CoBaZ

The TPB planed solution is one word.

Hyperinflation!

Just like the continental.

It is the only realistic solution. The only question is when?

What I often find difficult to understand, even after I read the background and educational videos about how economies work. When an individual gets into debt, sooner or later his or her possessions might be taken away and they'll end up on the street. But when a nation gets into debt, nothing happens. The debt is never going to be dealt with when there appear to be no consequences.

originally posted by: johnnyjoe1979
What I often find difficult to understand, even after I read the background and educational videos about how economies work. When an individual gets into debt, sooner or later his or her possessions might be taken away and they'll end up on the street. But when a nation gets into debt, nothing happens. The debt is never going to be dealt with when there appear to be no consequences.

Government debt is been paid back all the time. Because there is virtually no chance of a major economy with its own currency defaulting then more loans can always be taken out to roll-over the old ones.