FT Bombshell: EU Unveils Standing Border Force That Will Act "Even If A Government Objects"

a reply to: flammadraco

And now because of this, Germany will end up with a Fascist Right Wing Government along with other countries in the EU. We are now going backwards due to the way this whole debatical has been dealt with.

That is certainly what Russia wants. Putin can reach an entente with a Germany "liberated" from the EU and run by fellow Fascists.

a reply to: flammadraco

Last time I looked into it (2-3 yrs ago) there were a number of county level police forces that had been officially notified of this treason. Ian (something) ex big oil has done a few pieces on it over the years but of course nothing ever happens. I forget the name of the guy who started the movement to have the Heath govt (i think it was) prosecuted for treason but it pops up every few years again. Do a search and I'm sure you can find a lot more info on this.

a reply to: flammadraco

Well your end game strategy proposition sits well with me. Yes, they are politicians. Nothing like a good excuse for getting things done. Turning a blind eye for a while and tormenting people with visions of rampaging crazy refugees raping all our women was a sure way to start to make Europe PLC and necessitate the need for a European International Guard, lol.

I am actually very pro Europe now. It is based on reality. I am not a nationalist. I care about American and French people just the same as my fellow EU citizen Brits. I feel more secure as an EU citizen than a British subject if you know what I mean. I refuse to be called a British subject. I don't belong to the Queen. I am a EU Citizen with full human rights. I am proud of that status.

Go strong EU! Aller forte Union Européenne, Gehen Sie stark Europäische Union, Vai forte Unione Europea, Πηγαίνετε ισχυρή Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση!

a reply to: johnb

Last time I looked into it (2-3 yrs ago) there were a number of county level police forces that had been officially notified of this treason.

Britain has not handed over its financial, economic, or legal sovereignty to Europe. They have accepted a free trade zone but not a single currency. They also follow European consumer regulations, but that is necessary for free trade.

a reply to: johnb

Thanks John, I will look into that!

a reply to: Revolution9

Respectfully, I am in the "Out" camp, (in case you hadn't noticed)

But I still respect your views and it's great to debate with folk with opposing views on this subject

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: johnb

Last time I looked into it (2-3 yrs ago) there were a number of county level police forces that had been officially notified of this treason.

Britain has not handed over its financial, economic, or legal sovereignty to Europe. They have accepted a free trade zone but not a single currency. They also follow European consumer regulations, but that is necessary for free trade.

Legal Sovereignty



UK law: What proportion is influenced by the EU?

a reply to: flammadraco

Notice the difference between "acts" and "regulations." Does being prohibited from selling sparkling wine from California as "champagne" really infringe on Britain's sovereignty?

a reply to: DJW001

Of course it does not and point taken. I would give examples of laws that do affect me directly but just do not have the time at the mo as Im about to leave the office but will come back. Very hard finding any accurate info as its either completely Pro EU or Anti EU. Finding a source that is non biased is harder than I thought, (I wouldn't dream of using the UKIP website as a source or even the BBC as they are to far the other way)

What I will say, the company I run has just been billed £20,000 for a stupid EU directive than came into force on 5th December called ESOS. Basically means I have to monitor my gas and electric usage. My companies Gas and Electric usage is in excess of £2 million per annum, of course i monitor it on a weekly basis to see what savings can be made, but according to the EU, I am not "Skilled" enough to audit my own company and have to pay an ESOS registered with the EU auditor £20k to tell me what I already know. Failure to do this would end up giving me a fine of £60K.

That is just one example

a reply to: flammadraco

Listen, I'm very sceptic about centralism and the EU myself.

originally posted by: flammadraco

1. Brussels is not Germany.

My Bad, but Germany still hold the purse strings and has more than an overall say what happens to the EU along with France!

What makes you think that our bureaucratic officials in Brussels have more democratic legitimacy than yours?
We didn't have a say in any of this either. If we had, we'd still have the Deutsche Mark.

Even better, had Merkel kept her trap shut and not invited every Tom, Dick or Harry to Germany, then we would not have the flood of refugees risking their lives in the first place to get to Germany!

WTF? How is the refugee-crisis our fault?

Germany didn't destabilize the entire Middle East, nor Syria, and people were leaving the region in millions before Merkel made that statement.

Regarding Merkels position letting them in... well, she's a Christian. So I guess she couldn't let all those people die at our doorstep. Also, what picture would that have been?

a reply to: ColCurious

Where did I blame you or the German people? I blamed your leader Merkel, and considering her nose dive in the polls so do your fellow countrymen!

She should never have said it was an open door policy in Germany as she caused an already out of control situation to get a lot worse!

No idea why you took it so personally, can you imagine the American ATS members getting their knickers in a twist every time someone slagged off Obama??

I wonder how a country that is not part of the EU can be forced to accept an EU rule.

PS: using Google to search for the article's title gave me access to it, let's see if this works.

It's good to see some intelligent thinking on the European situation.

My fear is that Angelas optimism is going to backfire badly.

As has already been mentioned by earlier posters the mismanagement of this process has made the extremist right wing far more electable. "Fortress Europe" is far more credible than ever before.

I am Irish and here we look west to America as much as east to the EU. "Boston or Berlin" is the shorthand for this in public life. Economically we are host to so many "US multinationals" with sweetheart corporate tax deals that it would be fair to call us the "51st State".

At this time the view in either direction looks like George Orwells bad dreams.

to all the previous posters for keeping this one civilised

Zerohedge, need anyone say more? Nothing is unveiled.

a reply to: flammadraco

Our forefathers would be rolling in their graves if they saw what was happening to Europe today. Might as well let the Germans win the war and saved millions of men's lives fighting against the German occupation.

Clearly, our forefathers have quite a lot to roll over about.
Does anyone think politicians and unelected officials give a damn
or ever gave a damn? You recent vets out there ? Do you think for
one damn minute that they give a rotten blow about you? With
your brain injuries and missing limbs. if they care at all it's
because they have you pegged as a sucker and they're look'n
to do you again. So no, they don't. You're just cattle to
them. Wounded hero with a medal. The only ones who care
are people like me and you. And somebody needs to rid the planet
of these #$%^en @#!&^%*s. PROPER!

a reply to: flammadraco

FT Bombshell: EU Unveils Standing Border Force That Will Act "Even If A Government Objects"

So now we know who was behind the Paris shootings and their reason for it.

a reply to: ArMaP

Thank you. Here is how the original, undoctored article ends:

High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email [email protected] to buy additional rights. www.ft.com...

National capitals will retain day-to-day control of their borders, but the new agency will be able to monitor their efforts and step in if it feels the protection on offer is inadequate.

www.ft.com...

Interesting how the alleged source document is behind a subscription model paywall that most people can't view, to validate its authenticity, and have to just "accept" a few people posting segments of it in the trust that they haven't skewed it by posting only select parts of it.

Of course, these people don't have an anti-EU agenda either do they. Rhetorical question, because the answer is obvious. They do.

I regret to say that I am treating the allegations made in this thread, with extreme skepticism until it is corroborated by more visible and easily accessible trusted sources.

a reply to: BMorris

www.theguardian.com...

Can't add link via phone for Some reason?? Other wise Google "EU proposes new Border Force" and plenty of pro EU media are now reporting the same story.

The source above is from the Guardian newspaper.

From your post I can see that you have a Pro EU agenda, so I'll treat further responses from you with "extreme skepticism"

I'm neither for nor against the EU.

At the end of the day the EU is convenient for travel, tax free imports/exports (hence good for business), and a mutual defense partner to the UK.

The con's are that its expensive, some endemic corruption (but thats true of any form of government, especially our Parliament), and there are certain things that are expected of us, in exchange for the above benefits.

I sit on the fence where Europe is concerned, but firmly believe that the UK should never join the ERM (exchange rate mechanism aka the Euro), or surrender sovereignty of government to the extent that other EU countries have. You come across as someone who believes the government spin about Europe without question or investigation, but thats fine.

Now on to the article in question. Sadly the Guardian is little better than the daily mail these days, but lets accept it at face value for now.

The first thing that jumps out of the article at me is that they are plans that are under discussion. That means its not even proposed legislation yet. It may or may not get as far as being proposed legislation, at which point EU Parliament members could (and hopefully would) vote no.

From reading the article, it sounds as if the proposition could happen sometime soon.

The second thing that pops out at me, is the phrase in emergency, what isn't clear is that if the proposition is being made in emergency, or the powers will only be used in emergency.

Third point is that the powers will only affect Schengen signatories. The UK isn't one of them, so the new powers, if granted, wouldn't affect the UK in any way. Furthermore, the powers would only regard borders between Schengen nations, what this means is that nations would still have sovereign control over their external borders.

At the end of the day, I can see why nations would hate this proposal, but I can also see why it could be necessary, but ultimately, it doesn't affect the UK in any way as we are not signatory to Schengen. Therefore, ultimately, I have no care about it.