Why NOT stop Muslims from entering the US?

Would you all be comfortable in being suspicious of white men with guns, since the majority of mass shootings are committed by them?

I would think not because it is unreasonable but so is being scared of all Muslims.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Then get rid of them. Why do you allow them to have so much free reign that they basically took what used to be a bastion of modern and moderate Islam - Indonesia - and more or less radicalize it by leaps and bounds?

If you know the problem if Wahhabism a the Salafis, then why are you letting their imams come into your mosques and teach all around the world? One would think you'd simply say, "Thank, but no thanks."

It would be like the Protestant Christian world more or less saying, "We don't trust Catholicism and its doctrines and priests, but sure, send us that priest and we'll let him take over our pulpit and start preaching his version of Christianity and give Mass and confession." And then we turn around and wonder when people think we're no different than Catholics and our children begin to attend confession and revere the Pope.

Do you seriously not know how much the Saudis, Qataris, and others are protected by the West? The US government has bases throughout the Arabian Gulf, literally to prop up their monarchies. And do you not realize how heavily armed those countries are, specifically because of the constant defense contracts they make with the West? How can we stop them? And their wealth is so extreme that they can buy land, properties, and other things that normal Muslims can't even touch. Hence, my suggestion to place personal sanctions on the powerbrokers until they're proven innocent.

As for the mosque thing, let's be honest for a second. Muslims have been calling out & reporting suspected extremists from the beginning. My dad for example, is an Imam & a professor. The mosque he & a colleague run has been working with the FBI and local agencies for a long time. But how many of you ever hear about that stuff? Even the Muslim dude who stabbed people in the UK recently had his family call the police on him first. They warned the police that he was mentally unstable & was a former mental illness patient. So the authorities did an evaluation of the guy, said he was fine, then the guy went off & stabbed people.

What are you seriously asking us to legally do? How can we stop rich people from buying the rights to a building or from constructing a building? Also, many of them work through charities so we wouldn't know who it is anyway. It's no different than you holding a fundraiser, then I complain because you don't know the motives of each person who contributed to the fundraiser. This is literally why the US froze the assets of all Islamic charities operating here after 9/11 until each charity was vetted. Both of my parents were questioned by authorities to make sure their donations weren't for nefarious reasons, which they clearly weren't.

This is why this whole argument is ridiculous to me. People are proposing things when they don't even know what's going on. "Block all Muslims until safeguards are in place". What safeguards? Which ones are already in place? Which ones are working right now & which ones aren't? These are things Congress could be working on right now (or could've been working on for years now). But that doesn't make good fearmongering.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: stolencar18

I see you have still NOT answered a question you have been asked several times so I will ask again.......How do you propose identifying people whom are Muslim ?

Do what the Saudis do and have done for quite some time. Ask the religion on the application.

That will work for those who tell truth.... I imagine if you are a Muslim with nefarious intent there will be lies when answering that question.... So not exactly fool proof....

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: dreamingawake

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: dreamingawake
The problem here is that it won't stop criminals-terrorists who will find a way around any rules to that. Then you would have those stated these rules to take it one step further to a racial connotation. Then you have to ask where it ends. Should history repeat itself? Interment camps for Japanese Americans wasn't exactly a strong point for the US as neither were the internment camps for Ukrainians deemed "enemy aliens" in Canada during WWII.

Still, it makes it tougher for them. Nothing will stop it completely.

For what percentage would it make it tougher as we just don't know that? That's still grouping all Muslims into that, banning all of them from entering as mentioned in the OP.

Having the innocent refugees who may have a better place to live in the US rejected from entering won't stop those that are already being radicalized from "the inside out", some with prior links to the ME, some with newer influence. Even without the SB shooter's wife with him, he may still have acted out, as he was radicalized before hand.

Therefore do nothing to stop further incursion into the U.S. via refugees? Sorry. I can't go for that.

It is a privilege to come to the U.S.. We have every right to ensure those are assets. Not their fault there are terrorists amongst them. Not our fault either. Add in cost, lack of jobs, et al, then the scale tips against it. Apparently, the majority agree.

Help them with monies or food and housing overseas. Let them in on a trickle basis when each is fully vetted.

I didn't say do nothing about it. Not sure why that's an assertion. Though, stopping all Muslims, also as shared earlier would be dealing "freedom of religion", isn't a solution.

Comment above applies to this reply as well,

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: dreamingawake
The problem here is that it won't stop criminals-terrorists who will find a way around any rules to that. Then you would have those stated these rules to take it one step further to a racial connotation. Then you have to ask where it ends. Should history repeat itself? Interment camps for Japanese Americans wasn't exactly a strong point for the US as neither were the internment camps for Ukrainians deemed "enemy aliens" in Canada during WWI.

Well, you know, the laws don't stop murderers or rapists either. I guess we shouldn't bother.

originally posted by: schuyler
Yes, there is a problem with it. The 1st amendment to the US Constitution does not only give you free speech rights, it also grants you freedom of religion. So if you decide who can get in based on religion, you just violated a key provision of the Bill of Rights. There is no equivocation here, either, because religion is specifically spelled out.

It's really that simple.

No, it isn't "that simple". The Constitution doesn't apply to foreigners that are not already here, nor does it guarantee immigration status. The Constitution has literally nothing to do with the issue of prohibiting foreign Muslims from entering the country.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

In a word.... yes. We know. What to do about it is a different thing.

So let me get right, I will try to be as delicate as I can as not to step into anybody toes, I don't want to offend anybody.

Under Freedom of religion by the statements of some that think that is not a good idea to block people of certain parts of the world due to their religious believes because we after all love our constitution, we should stand to be terrorized, killed, maimed and become victims, because that is the right of some that worship a side of their religion that means to impose by any means necessary their twisted version religion.

Go it.

We reap what we sow.

nothing to see here.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

It's a simple question: If the ME is exporting Wahhabism, and we know it is and why. Then does each mosque have a say in who its imam is or not?

If it does, then why do so many take in Salafis to preach Wahhabi-style radical Islam?

I'm not saying none of them fight it, but why do so many accept those Imams?

a reply to: marg6043

It is interesting how precious religion has suddenly become.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

That's a great point. But he'd be committing a blasphemy by denying his faith, and thus not a Muslim anyways.

originally posted by: marg6043
we should stand to be terrorized, killed, maimed and become victims,

Umm what about the ease that mentally ill people seem to have getting guns? Do you not think that the mere suggesting about stopping those types from getting gun is just as valid as what you are saying?

The reason I ask this is because the people who are asking for Muslims to be denied entry, labeled as potential terrorists or put in a database are usually the ones who do not care about what some American citizens consider a real threat out there that has the potential to be terrorized, killed, maimed and become victims.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: marg6043

It is interesting how precious religion has suddenly become.

And that is the statement of the century, my friend.

Right now people are finding and excuse to welcome terrorism in our country because is all ok on the first amendment.

And many have no clue what they are advocating for, after all constitutional rights are exclusive of US citizens no foreigners.

a reply to: theonenonlyone

Americans constitutional rights are only exclusive of citizens of the nation, you do not welcome trouble into your backyard just because you want to be nice to everybody.

a reply to: stolencar18

Why NOT stop Muslims from entering the US?

Frankly because it's embarrassing. Most people just want to live in a better, less tyrannical place, regardless of their religions.

What needs to end is multiculturalism, which is the real debate. If you come to live in America, you become American and enjoy the fruits of American values as an American. No self-segregation, but assimilation. The real tragedy is the people who want that, but cannot yet reach it.

Let's make this simple.

Halt ALL immigration, until every single person wanting to come can be thoroughly vetted. All of them. Any terrorist ties, drug activity, criminal record, whatever, all seen ahead of time. Anyone coming has to be productive, because we simply cannot afford to take in every single person in the world who wants a better life. simple enough?

As for a test to know who is and isn't Muslim, easy enough:

1. Ask the religion of each person applying for entry.
2. If anything other than Jewish because no Muslim would claim to be Jewish), have them eat a nice, fresh BLT.
3. No problem? Consider their entry. If they refuse, or gag, or whatever, no entry.

The bacon test seems like a good solution to me.

If one looks at this logically the terrorists are winning. What is their purpose. To make people fear. Looks to me that MAYBE a quarter million extremists have made the world fear, not only 1.5 billion Muslims, but even the thought of "different". And few see it.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
As for a test to know who is and isn't Muslim, easy enough:

1. Ask the religion of each person applying for entry.
2. If anything other than Jewish because no Muslim would claim to be Jewish), have them eat a nice, fresh BLT.
3. No problem? Consider their entry. If they refuse, or gag, or whatever, no entry.

The bacon test seems like a good solution to me.

IDK how insulting that is. To us. Repellent thinking.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

That is an issue that nobody wants to debate, why people want to run from persecution specially when it comes to worshiping and tyrannical governments but then try to keep the same tyrannical and radicalized ideals that make them run away from their supposedly lives in the countries that are giving them a chance to freedom, those people that do that, Freedom is not what they want to embraces.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Fair call....I believe much of the problem is an individuals interpretation ....what if said individual believes he is doing gods will and therefore lying is acceptable to achieve the desired result?

a reply to: marg6043

The main issue is the political aspect of Islam. Free speech, freedom of religion, the rights of minorities and women—these are near absent from those politics. It must be quite the culture shock, but hopefully a good one.