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Billboard asking people to skip church on Christmas stirs controversy

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posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 02:08 AM
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originally posted by: Deaf Alien
Christians complained about this billboard and atheists preaching to them in this thread and now they are preaching to us. LOL.


Preaching or just answering questions
I didn't get that courtesy from you




posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 02:12 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: OccamsRazor04




You need to be a Christian to get salvation. I said if you can be a "good person" defined as having never sinned, not even a lie, you do not need salvation.

I guess that would depend on your particular point of view. For a good number of Christians, the necessity of being "saved" would apply to all humans.
www.theopedia.com...

Your theological interpretation is the correct one?

It's the point of view I put forth, and since I am the one they are debating, it's the point of view of relevance at the moment. There is another point of view for original sin which I disagree with. If the others in the thread wish to say they have issues with that argument I will agree with them. I have no problem with differences of opinion, I do have a problem when I respond to a post with argument X, and then the person goes on to say I claimed Y.

I have a problem when I put forth numerous arguments that are left unchallenged and instead the poster changes the subject, then claims they proved my arguments illogical when they would not even respond to them.



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 02:13 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

i agree with you that we can't simply drop our responsibilities, but if you want to redefine good and honest morals AS christian values, then there's no point arguing. i'll just say i dont need a god to tell me to do the right thing in hope of a reward, i do the right thing because i want to.

and that to me is more honest and beautiful
edit on 13-12-2015 by vjr1113 because: (no reason given)


id invite you to think about the good samaritan for a bit
edit on 13-12-2015 by vjr1113 because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-12-2015 by vjr1113 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 02:17 AM
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originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

i agree with you that we can't simply drop our responsibilities, but if you want to redefine good and honest morals and christian values, then there's no point arguing. i'll just say i dont need a god to tell me to do the right thing in hope of a reward, i do the right thing because i want to.

and that to me is more honest and beautiful

The Bible agreed with you. God is not there to tell us the right thing. God is there for when we do the wrong thing. He is also there for many other reasons, but none of us need to be told by Him what is right.

Saw your edit. Good Samaritan is evidence of my argument. Not to say it proves my position right as it can be evidence in other arguments, only pointing out it fits my view perfectly.
edit on 13-12-2015 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 02:21 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

the good samaritan did not help the person in order to receive a reward, he did so because he wanted to. he obviously wasn't a christian or a jew.
edit on 13-12-2015 by vjr1113 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 02:21 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

It's the point of view I put forth, and since I am the one they are debating, it's the point of view of relevance at the moment.
Ok. So you are invalidating the beliefs of a large number of other Christians. How is that different from:

American Atheists, the group behind the ads, says their intention is to emphasize that being a good person isn't tied to attending religious services.



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 02:23 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

It's the point of view I put forth, and since I am the one they are debating, it's the point of view of relevance at the moment.
Ok. So you are invalidating the beliefs of a large number of other Christians. How is that different from:

American Atheists, the group behind the ads, says their intention is to emphasize that being a good person isn't tied to attending religious services.


You mean the billboard I said in my very first post I respect their right to put it up? You jumped in late, so I understand you don't have the full context.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I fully accept their right to post that billboard.


None of this started over my objection to the billboard. I have no objection. It's America, feel free.

This started when a poster said the idea of hope and redemption, that we can get a better outcome than we deserve is negative, and they believe there is no such thing as redemption, that you can never be redeemed ever, and that's more positive.

I took issue with that. With me not saying anything about the billboard other than I respect their right to post it, people attacked me over Christianity and posted non stop falsehoods and logical fallacies.
edit on 13-12-2015 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-12-2015 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 02:24 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman



Preaching or just answering questions I didn't get that courtesy from you

It's really odd that you think I have been preaching to you. Do you think that every non Christian in the world is preaching to you?



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 02:28 AM
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originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: Raggedyman



Preaching or just answering questions I didn't get that courtesy from you

It's really odd that you think I have been preaching to you. Do you think that every non Christian in the world is preaching to you?

That's not what he said. He said he was not preaching, only answering questions, and you refuse to give that same courtesy (of answering questions).



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 02:32 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

We have been answering questions. And yes he has accused me of preaching to him multiple times.



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 02:34 AM
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originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

We have been answering questions. And yes he has accused me of preaching to him multiple times.

Could be, I make no claim other than in that last post you responded to he was referencing your not answering his questions. I was not posting in support of his assertion, only clarifying what his claim was. I have not followed any discussion involving him so you could have answered 0 questions of his or 100, I make no claim either way.



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 02:36 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Yeah I could have misread his post but it still stands that we have been answering everyone's questions and that we are not preaching as he claimed.



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 02:38 AM
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originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Yeah I could have misread his post but it still stands that we have been answering everyone's questions and that we are not preaching as he claimed.

Could be, I have no idea either way.



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 02:39 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

This started when a poster said the idea of hope and redemption, that we can get a better outcome than we deserve is negative, and they believe there is no such thing as redemption, that you can never be redeemed ever, and that's more positive.
Well, as you know, threads take branches. And the branch this thread took, took you to denying the doctrine of original sin, which puts you at odds with a good number of Christians.

As to whether or not only God can offer redemption to a sinner (no matter how you choose to define that), one must assume that there is such a thing as "redemption" and all that it implies. What does that imply? Well, for the most part, something that happens after death. It's all part of the same ball of wax, isn't it?



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 02:45 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

This started when a poster said the idea of hope and redemption, that we can get a better outcome than we deserve is negative, and they believe there is no such thing as redemption, that you can never be redeemed ever, and that's more positive.
Well, as you know, threads take branches. And the branch this thread took, took you to denying the doctrine of original sin, which puts you at odds with a good number of Christians.

Not an issue of salvation, and I do not deny original sin, I only deny a particular interpretation of it is correct.


As to whether or not only God can offer redemption to a sinner (no matter how you choose to define that), one must assume that there is such a thing as "redemption" and all that it implies. What does that imply? Well, for the most part, something that happens after death. It's all part of the same ball of wax, isn't it?


The person in question was not stating they think redemption can be found in other ways, they stated it can NEVER be found, at all, ever. I took issue not with their lack of belief in God, but their claim that the idea we can find redemption even if we do not deserve it was a negative way to view things, and the idea redemption can never be found was more positive.

Had they said "yeah redemption is great I just think it can be found elsewhere" I would not have commented.

ETA: Redemption does not necessarily even imply after death. Someone could possibly think they can redeem themselves through their own actions and become "even" in some way. That's still redemption.
edit on 13-12-2015 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 02:45 AM
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a reply to: Phage



As to whether or not only God can offer redemption to a sinner (no matter how you choose to define that), one must assume that there is such a thing as "redemption" and all that it implies. What does that imply? Well, for the most part, something that happens after death. It's all part of the same ball of wax, isn't it?

Yes, hence why it is considered to be negative.



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 02:49 AM
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The person in question was not stating they think redemption can be found in other ways, they stated it can NEVER be found, at all, ever.
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I would agree, based upon the Christian notion of redemption (i.e. eternal life). I cannot accept the idea that by washing away my sins by simply accepting Jesus as my Lord and Savior, I will live eternally. I cannot accept the idea that anyone, no matter how good, will do so.

I think that no matter what I do, when I die I will be dead. However, I do think that what I do will have a profound influence upon my life.

edit on 12/13/2015 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 02:52 AM
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originally posted by: Phage



The person in question was not stating they think redemption can be found in other ways, they stated it can NEVER be found, at all, ever.
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I would agree, based upon the Christian notion of redemption (i.e. eternal life). I cannot accept the idea that by washing away my sins, I will live eternally.



Except you can have the idea of redemption without it being tied to God. My reply did not even mention God.


originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
No matter what you have done, you can be redeemed. There is no hole too dark for the light to fill.

So negative ...


Regardless of if you tie that to God or not, there is nothing negative in the idea.



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 02:55 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04




Except you can have the idea of redemption without it being tied to God. My reply did not even mention God.

What do you consider "redemption" to mean?



posted on Dec, 13 2015 @ 02:55 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
I think that no matter what I do, when I die I will be dead. However, I do think that what I do will have a profound influence upon my life.

A murderer looks back on his life and sees all the pain he has caused and strives to make the world a better place before he dies.

Another murderer looks back and just thinks of ways to keep exploiting people until he dies.

Which outlook would you consider more positive?



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